Being extra-diligent about cleaning every single bottle with boiling
water and dish washer powder, making sure the beer is completely
fermented out and having reduced corn sugar to 2-1/2oz per 5-gallon
batch it happened again on Sunday ... *KAPOOF* ... a sturdy Grolsch
blew off its bottom.
This is a Saison brewed on Dec-18, US-05 yeast, finished primary on
Dec-31 at 1.014 and with almost no air lock activity left. Sat in
secondary for another two weeks with barely any air lock activity. The fermentation chamber is very well controlled at 68F for the primaries
and 63F for the secondaries (unless I need other temps). Bottled on
Jan-14. It's not very warm in the house. Most of the time the beer
sits downstairs at 60F-65F, then gets hauled into a kitchen cabinet
where it is about 68F and this is where a bottle exploded. We drank
another one later and it showed tons of carbonation, foaming up the
whole glass at first pour. The taste is good and same as always, no off-flavors or anything.
My primary vessels are stainless and the secondaries are blue water
cooler bottles, all meticulously cleaned and sanitized. The beer
bottles get sanitized by a 1min and often a lot longer soak in Starsan solution and I mean completely drowned with no air left inside.
What on earth can cause this? 2-1/2oz of sugar is already half the
quantity recommended by carbonation calculators. Should I go to 2oz or
maybe even 1-1/2oz?
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote :
Being extra-diligent about cleaning every single bottle with boiling
water and dish washer powder, making sure the beer is completely
fermented out and having reduced corn sugar to 2-1/2oz per 5-gallon
batch it happened again on Sunday ... *KAPOOF* ... a sturdy Grolsch
blew off its bottom.
This is a Saison brewed on Dec-18, US-05 yeast, finished primary on
Dec-31 at 1.014 and with almost no air lock activity left. Sat in
secondary for another two weeks with barely any air lock activity. The
fermentation chamber is very well controlled at 68F for the primaries
and 63F for the secondaries (unless I need other temps). Bottled on
Jan-14. It's not very warm in the house. Most of the time the beer
sits downstairs at 60F-65F, then gets hauled into a kitchen cabinet
where it is about 68F and this is where a bottle exploded. We drank
another one later and it showed tons of carbonation, foaming up the
whole glass at first pour. The taste is good and same as always, no
off-flavors or anything.
My primary vessels are stainless and the secondaries are blue water
cooler bottles, all meticulously cleaned and sanitized. The beer
bottles get sanitized by a 1min and often a lot longer soak in Starsan
solution and I mean completely drowned with no air left inside.
What on earth can cause this? 2-1/2oz of sugar is already half the
quantity recommended by carbonation calculators. Should I go to 2oz or
maybe even 1-1/2oz?
Yeah, that sounds weird. US05 doesn't usually stall out as much as some
other yeasts, and it sounds like you're letting fermentation finish.
1.014 doesn't sound high, unless the OG was something like 1.040, so
it's probably not a lot of undigested sugar. ...
... With that long of a secondary, if an infection was happening in the fermenters it ought to
show up well before bottling.
Maybe try cold crashing if you can get the fermenters outside into low
temps? Although that may not be the issue either.
When you say you sanitize the bottles, I assume you sanitize the caps
too.
Maybe try a different cleaning routine on a subset of bottles and see if
that variable matters. For instance, soak overnight a dozen or two in a solution of oxygen bleach dissolved in hot water then rinse well, mark
them, and then do the same sanitizing routine and see if any of the
different bottles burst. Oxygen bleach is very good at dissolving caked
on residues, so maybe, just maybe that's the issue. It can't really
hurt.
It's also possible that there's something getting transmitted in the
hoses or spigots, so giving those an overnight soak in Oxygen bleach
might help, or even replacing them with new ones. Although if the same
ones are used in the early stages, it's hard to see how that would
matter during bottling.
Maybe the bottling process is somehow involving a lot of oxygen being introduced to the mix and/or a lot of yeast is somehow getting
transferrred to some or all of the bottles? Maybe keep an eye on the
tubing to see if there are a lot of bubbles or particles coming through?
Maybe some of the bottles are just scratched up and harboring bacteria,
or are structurally unsound. It may be time to bite the bullet and buy commercial beer and then reuse fresh bottles.
... If you do, it might be
worth marking them somehow and seeing if that subset performs
differently from the main batch of bottles you're using.
On 2019-02-06 16:59, Baloonon wrote:
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote :
Yeah, that sounds weird. US05 doesn't usually stall out as much as
some other yeasts, and it sounds like you're letting fermentation
finish. 1.014 doesn't sound high, unless the OG was something like
1.040, so it's probably not a lot of undigested sugar. ...
The Saison started out at 1.050. In secondary it must have dropped
much
below 1.014. I only measure after primary to reduce the risk of contamination. If the air lock is totally dormant I figure there can't
be any undigested sugars left. The yeast must still be alive in there because carbonation in the bottles always worked.
... With that long of a
secondary, if an infection was happening in the fermenters it ought
to show up well before bottling.
An infection should probably also show up as an after-taste and I
didn't have any off-flavors so far in over 120 brewed batches. Even
in one case where I accidentally racked off into the wrong secondary
vessel which wasn't sanitized.
Maybe try cold crashing if you can get the fermenters outside into
low temps? Although that may not be the issue either.
Wouldn't cold-crashing just make the yeast dormant and it'll come back
when bottled?
When you say you sanitize the bottles, I assume you sanitize the caps
too.
Yes, they reside submerged in Starsan solution for at least 10mins but
most beer I bottle into Grolsch bottles which have flip-tops. The
majority of grenading happened in the regular capped bottles because
they are of inferior strength. Except for some Belgian ones and the
500ml German bottles which also never grenaded.
Maybe try a different cleaning routine on a subset of bottles and see
if that variable matters. For instance, soak overnight a dozen or two
in a solution of oxygen bleach dissolved in hot water then rinse
well, mark them, and then do the same sanitizing routine and see if
any of the different bottles burst. Oxygen bleach is very good at
dissolving caked on residues, so maybe, just maybe that's the issue.
It can't really hurt.
We are almost doing that already by letting hot water sit in each
bottle after we poured. Sometimes overnight. Before putting them away
after drying I visually check every bottle against a bright light, to
make sure there isn't the slightest of haze anywhere in it.
It's also possible that there's something getting transmitted in the
hoses or spigots, so giving those an overnight soak in Oxygen bleach
might help, or even replacing them with new ones. Although if the
same ones are used in the early stages, it's hard to see how that
would matter during bottling.
I use the same racking cane and hose for siphoning from the brew
kettle into primary, primary to secondary, secondary to bottling
bucket and then bottling bucket to bottling wand and into the bottles.
After each step I sprinkle a few granules of PBW into the hose, add
hot water,
shake and let it hang as a U-shape for at least one day. Then I empty
it, rinse and let it hang vertically until dry. The racking cane and bottling wand are thoroughly cleaned with dishwashing liquid, Q-tips
(as a "cleaning shuttle" back and forth) and almost boiling-hot water.
Clean as a whistle. Of course, they also get a good Starsan soaking
before ever touching wort or beer.
Maybe the bottling process is somehow involving a lot of oxygen being
introduced to the mix and/or a lot of yeast is somehow getting
transferrred to some or all of the bottles? Maybe keep an eye on the
tubing to see if there are a lot of bubbles or particles coming
through?
Sometimes there are small bubbles but usually not. I could not detect
any correlation between that and grenading. What I do before bottling
is this:
I boil 2-1/2oz of corn sugar in about 12oz of water for at least five minutes, then let the pot cool on the large steel bottom of a drill
press, lid closed. This gets poured first into the sanitized bottling bucket. I siphon the beer from secondary into that sugar water for a
good mix but without any splashing or gurgling. Then I use a sanitized
long spoon to lift up any sugar concentration that might have favored
the bottom, 10-12 times, again slowly and without splashing.
Maybe some of the bottles are just scratched up and harboring
bacteria, or are structurally unsound. It may be time to bite the
bullet and buy commercial beer and then reuse fresh bottles.
That's where these bottles mostly come from. They look totally
pristine,
no scratches. Meantime we have thrown away Sierra Nevada bottles, Kona bottles and any others that have proven to fail too often under
carbonation pressure.
... If you do, it might be
worth marking them somehow and seeing if that subset performs
differently from the main batch of bottles you're using.
I really don't think there'd be any difference. When holding against a bright halogen light there are no visible scratches, no haze, nothing
that even remotely points to residue accumulation.
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
On 2019-02-06 16:59, Baloonon wrote:
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote :
Yeah, that sounds weird. US05 doesn't usually stall out as much as
some other yeasts, and it sounds like you're letting fermentation
finish. 1.014 doesn't sound high, unless the OG was something like
1.040, so it's probably not a lot of undigested sugar. ...
The Saison started out at 1.050. In secondary it must have dropped
much
below 1.014. I only measure after primary to reduce the risk of
contamination. If the air lock is totally dormant I figure there can't
be any undigested sugars left. The yeast must still be alive in there
because carbonation in the bottles always worked.
Airlocks aren't the best indicator, since some yeasts will drop out
before finishing up, and can get reactivated if they are roused. US05 is rarely like that, though.
... With that long of a
secondary, if an infection was happening in the fermenters it ought
to show up well before bottling.
An infection should probably also show up as an after-taste and I
didn't have any off-flavors so far in over 120 brewed batches. Even
in one case where I accidentally racked off into the wrong secondary
vessel which wasn't sanitized.
I've had one or two, and you would know it if you had one in a secondary
held that long. You'll see colonies floating on top, you'll get a smell
like vinegar or aspirin... It's not an easy thing to miss.
Maybe try cold crashing if you can get the fermenters outside into
low temps? Although that may not be the issue either.
Wouldn't cold-crashing just make the yeast dormant and it'll come back
when bottled?
If it's done fermenting, sometimes there is a benefit to making sure the yeast drops and forms a solid cake.
... It sometimes helps limit the amount
of yeast that gets transferred to the bottling bucket and sometimes
avoids too much ending up in a single bottle.
Maybe try a different cleaning routine on a subset of bottles and see
if that variable matters. For instance, soak overnight a dozen or two
in a solution of oxygen bleach dissolved in hot water then rinse
well, mark them, and then do the same sanitizing routine and see if
any of the different bottles burst. Oxygen bleach is very good at
dissolving caked on residues, so maybe, just maybe that's the issue.
It can't really hurt.
We are almost doing that already by letting hot water sit in each
bottle after we poured. Sometimes overnight. Before putting them away
after drying I visually check every bottle against a bright light, to
make sure there isn't the slightest of haze anywhere in it.
You may want to just try some unscented oxygen bleach. It's cheap, it's
much less nasty stuff than regular chlorine bleach, and when you're done
you can just dump the solution into the washing machine for your
clothes. It can't hurt.
worth marking them somehow and seeing if that subset performs
differently from the main batch of bottles you're using.
I really don't think there'd be any difference. When holding against a
bright halogen light there are no visible scratches, no haze, nothing
that even remotely points to residue accumulation.
Maybe it's the Starsan? It's pretty shelf stable, but maybe something
weird happened to it? Maybe the measuring spoon you're using is somehow
wrong and you're using too little? Unusual water chemistry in tap water supposedly limits its effectiveness.
Otherwise, I'm pretty much mystified. There isn't some environmental
factor, like you bottle in a commercial bakery, is there....
Being extra-diligent about cleaning every single bottle with boiling--- Synchronet 3.17c-Linux NewsLink 1.110
water and dish washer powder, making sure the beer is completely
fermented out and having reduced corn sugar to 2-1/2oz per 5-gallon
batch it happened again on Sunday ... *KAPOOF* ... a sturdy Grolsch blew
off its bottom.
This is a Saison brewed on Dec-18, US-05 yeast, finished primary on
Dec-31 at 1.014 and with almost no air lock activity left. Sat in
secondary for another two weeks with barely any air lock activity. The fermentation chamber is very well controlled at 68F for the primaries
and 63F for the secondaries (unless I need other temps). Bottled on
Jan-14. It's not very warm in the house. Most of the time the beer sits downstairs at 60F-65F, then gets hauled into a kitchen cabinet where it
is about 68F and this is where a bottle exploded. We drank another one
later and it showed tons of carbonation, foaming up the whole glass at
first pour. The taste is good and same as always, no off-flavors or anything.
My primary vessels are stainless and the secondaries are blue water
cooler bottles, all meticulously cleaned and sanitized. The beer bottles
get sanitized by a 1min and often a lot longer soak in Starsan solution
and I mean completely drowned with no air left inside.
What on earth can cause this? 2-1/2oz of sugar is already half the
quantity recommended by carbonation calculators. Should I go to 2oz or
maybe even 1-1/2oz?
--
Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Hi,
In your case I am thinking about two scenarios likely to happen:
- Some bottles have more sugar than others; originating from bottling
sugar which has not dissolved homogeneously in liquid. And in colder
liquid, especially after cold break, lagering etc. it is even
harder.
A few gentle stir may not distribute liquid sugar in beer evenly. And
most likely some tiny crystals has also grown during cooling of hot
sugary water. They tend to sit down on bottom.
This may be one reason. You may judge this from changing carbonation
from bottle to bottle.
- And second theory;
1050-1014 sounds it is attenuated on the lower limit side for US05. I
would expect a 1005-6-7 FG for a 1050 saison. (Of course depending on
mash temperature and crystal malt %'s)
BJCP (style guidelines) also says for standard saisons:
OG: 1.048 – 1.065 FG: 1.002 – 1.008
So even for a big beer like 1065, they may expect a 1008.
Your fermantation somehow stuck at 1014, then started attenuating
again in bottles. Why it did not attenuate during secondary is
unclear. May be because you lowered the temperature a few degrees
more instead of increasing. No sugar, no higher temperature, no
oxygen introduced so there is no ignition, no spark to awake yeasts
during secondary.
If this is the case, we may bear in mind below information:
According to (1) http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Accurately_Calculating_Sugar_Additions_for_Carbonation
. . Each degree Plato yields 4.1 g/l or 2 volumes CO2 Each gravity
point yields 1 g/l or 0.51 volumes CO2 . .
So if beer attenuated from 1014 to 1010 in bottle, it means 2 volume
of CO2. if beer attenuated from 1014 to 1008, it means 3 volume of
CO2, if beer attenuated from 1014 to 1006, it means 4 volume of CO2.
Knowing that for many of the beers exist in brewing world, the
adviced co2 volumes are between 2 - 4 volumes; so you might already carbonated your bottles without adding sugar. (volume advices: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/attachments/beer-styles-volumes-of-co2-png.45720/)
And I would use gloves and eye protection while opening the rest of
the bottles. Some type of bottles cracks from bottom; I naively tend
to believe this partial weakness is done by purpose by manufacturers
to prevent flying, scattering glass pieces around. Some bottle types
really bombs like a cluster bomb. Not need to mention the dangers of
these type.
Hope I am clear enough, English is not my mother tongue.
Kind regards, Seko
6 Şubat 2019 Çarşamba 02:31:19 UTC+3 tarihinde Joerg yazdı:
Being extra-diligent about cleaning every single bottle with
boiling water and dish washer powder, making sure the beer is
completely fermented out and having reduced corn sugar to 2-1/2oz
per 5-gallon batch it happened again on Sunday ... *KAPOOF* ... a
sturdy Grolsch blew off its bottom.
This is a Saison brewed on Dec-18, US-05 yeast, finished primary
on Dec-31 at 1.014 and with almost no air lock activity left. Sat
in secondary for another two weeks with barely any air lock
activity. The fermentation chamber is very well controlled at 68F
for the primaries and 63F for the secondaries (unless I need other
temps). Bottled on Jan-14. It's not very warm in the house. Most of
the time the beer sits downstairs at 60F-65F, then gets hauled into
a kitchen cabinet where it is about 68F and this is where a bottle
exploded. We drank another one later and it showed tons of
carbonation, foaming up the whole glass at first pour. The taste is
good and same as always, no off-flavors or anything.
My primary vessels are stainless and the secondaries are blue
water cooler bottles, all meticulously cleaned and sanitized. The
beer bottles get sanitized by a 1min and often a lot longer soak in
Starsan solution and I mean completely drowned with no air left
inside.
What on earth can cause this? 2-1/2oz of sugar is already half the
quantity recommended by carbonation calculators. Should I go to 2oz
or maybe even 1-1/2oz?
-- Regards, Joerg
http://www.analogconsultants.com/
On 2019-02-11 04:42, Seko wrote:
In your case I am thinking about two scenarios likely to happen:
- Some bottles have more sugar than others; originating from bottling
sugar which has not dissolved homogeneously in liquid. And in colder
liquid, especially after cold break, lagering etc. it is even
harder.
A few gentle stir may not distribute liquid sugar in beer evenly. And
most likely some tiny crystals has also grown during cooling of hot
sugary water. They tend to sit down on bottom.
This may be one reason. You may judge this from changing carbonation
from bottle to bottle.
That could be. Though I dissolve the sugar in water which gets boiled
for at least 5mins on the kitchen stove to make sure it's all
sanitized. Once cooled off I pour that into the sanitized bottling
bucket, then the beer is racked on top of that with the siphoning hose
all the way onto the bottom, for a good swirl without splashing.
Afterwards 10-12 "heaves" with a long sanitized plastic spoon.
- And second theory;
1050-1014 sounds it is attenuated on the lower limit side for US05. I
would expect a 1005-6-7 FG for a 1050 saison. (Of course depending on
mash temperature and crystal malt %'s)
BJCP (style guidelines) also says for standard saisons:
OG: 1.048 – 1.065 FG: 1.002 – 1.008
So even for a big beer like 1065, they may expect a 1008.
Usually I end around 1.009. This one was a bit higher but then had
another two weeks of rest in secondary.
I never measure after
seconday. Maybe I should but then it's in the bottling bucket and I am committed to bottle. Measuring gravity in secondary is tough because I
use 5-gallon water cooler bottles for that which have a narrow neck.
Maybe I should affix a rope at the hydrometer or fish it out later.
And I would use gloves and eye protection while opening the rest of
the bottles. Some type of bottles cracks from bottom; I naively tend
to believe this partial weakness is done by purpose by manufacturers
to prevent flying, scattering glass pieces around. Some bottle types
really bombs like a cluster bomb. Not need to mention the dangers of
these type.
I've had some where the neck flew off and landed clear at the other
side of the room. Others shattered completely.
The question is now, should I open and immediately re-close all of
them to "let of some steam"? Or could that cause the beer in there to
go permanently flat? Right now they have become gushers. About half a
second after opening foam shoots out, with gusto.
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
On 2019-02-11 04:42, Seko wrote:
In your case I am thinking about two scenarios likely to happen:
- Some bottles have more sugar than others; originating from bottling
sugar which has not dissolved homogeneously in liquid. And in colder
liquid, especially after cold break, lagering etc. it is even
harder.
A few gentle stir may not distribute liquid sugar in beer evenly. And
most likely some tiny crystals has also grown during cooling of hot
sugary water. They tend to sit down on bottom.
This may be one reason. You may judge this from changing carbonation
from bottle to bottle.
That could be. Though I dissolve the sugar in water which gets boiled
for at least 5mins on the kitchen stove to make sure it's all
sanitized. Once cooled off I pour that into the sanitized bottling
bucket, then the beer is racked on top of that with the siphoning hose
all the way onto the bottom, for a good swirl without splashing.
Afterwards 10-12 "heaves" with a long sanitized plastic spoon.
I'm curious if the crystalization is a possibility, since sugar can come
out of solution much easier than some other things, like table salt.
I'm not sure how you'd test for that without carefully examining the
bottom of the bottling bucket for crystals. An easier starting point
might be to mark the caps of bottles that are filled, maybe indicating whether they're with the first ten bottled, second ten, and so on, and
then seeing if there is any pattern to any that gusher or burst. You
could even number each bottle. That might help narrow down whether a
specific part of the bottling process is an issue. Can't hurt.
- And second theory;
1050-1014 sounds it is attenuated on the lower limit side for US05. I
would expect a 1005-6-7 FG for a 1050 saison. (Of course depending on
mash temperature and crystal malt %'s)
BJCP (style guidelines) also says for standard saisons:
OG: 1.048 – 1.065 FG: 1.002 – 1.008
So even for a big beer like 1065, they may expect a 1008.
Usually I end around 1.009. This one was a bit higher but then had
another two weeks of rest in secondary.
I think you had said you only used 2.5 oz of priming sugar, so even if
it had finished at 014, that probably shouldn't be enough sugar to break
a bottle.
I never measure after
seconday. Maybe I should but then it's in the bottling bucket and I am
committed to bottle. Measuring gravity in secondary is tough because I
use 5-gallon water cooler bottles for that which have a narrow neck.
Maybe I should affix a rope at the hydrometer or fish it out later.
You can use one of these:
https://www.northernbrewer.com/products/fermtech-wine-thief
You could also just use a sanitized length of tubing -- put one end in
the carboy, cap with your thumb, then drop into a hydrometer tube. You
might need to repeat once or twice depending on the diameter and length
of the tubing.
And I would use gloves and eye protection while opening the rest of
the bottles. Some type of bottles cracks from bottom; I naively tend
to believe this partial weakness is done by purpose by manufacturers
to prevent flying, scattering glass pieces around. Some bottle types
really bombs like a cluster bomb. Not need to mention the dangers of
these type.
I've had some where the neck flew off and landed clear at the other
side of the room. Others shattered completely.
Unrelated, I just snapped the top of a neck off a bottle when I was
capping it somehow. Fortunately it was a clean break and above the fill
line, so there was no glass or beer escaping. I've never had that happen before.
The question is now, should I open and immediately re-close all of
them to "let of some steam"? Or could that cause the beer in there to
go permanently flat? Right now they have become gushers. About half a
second after opening foam shoots out, with gusto.
I would see if you can get by with just chilling them and keeping them
cold. If you have too many for your fridge, use a cooler with some
bottles of ice. That ought to be enough to stop any further
fermentation.
I wouldn't open any to try to relieve pressure -- if there are gushers, there's no easy way to control that. Just have a pitcher ready when you
open bottles for drinking to handle extra foam.
On 2019-02-14 19:49, Baloonon wrote:
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
Good idea. I actually inherited a tall glass beker with a huge
hydrometer from a friend who stopped wine making. So next time I
notice a "high finisher" after primary I am going to sanitize that
and measure after secondary.
The question is now, should I open and immediately re-close all of
them to "let of some steam"? Or could that cause the beer in there
to go permanently flat? Right now they have become gushers. About
half a second after opening foam shoots out, with gusto.
I would see if you can get by with just chilling them and keeping
them cold. If you have too many for your fridge, use a cooler with
some bottles of ice. That ought to be enough to stop any further
fermentation.
Not so easy right now because we sometimes need the extra fridge
downstairs for food preparation.
I wouldn't open any to try to relieve pressure -- if there are
gushers, there's no easy way to control that. Just have a pitcher
ready when you open bottles for drinking to handle extra foam.
Yeah but I want to reduce the risk of another KAPOOF. Re-closing a
gusher isn't a problem because these are almost all Grolsch bottle.
Just needs to be rinsed and dried on the outside afterwards. Except
for the four 12 ouncers I filled which we'll just drink first.
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote :
On 2019-02-14 19:49, Baloonon wrote:
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
Good idea. I actually inherited a tall glass beker with a huge
hydrometer from a friend who stopped wine making. So next time I
notice a "high finisher" after primary I am going to sanitize that
and measure after secondary.
I think you may want to make sure your primary is really and truly done,
and if the gravity there seems high, consider gently rousing the yeast
and raising the temp a bit and see if you can restart in primary while
you have a lot of yeast.
Transferring to secondary with a stalled fermentation may make it harder
to get the yeast back in action, since you'll have left most of it
behind in the primary.
The question is now, should I open and immediately re-close all of
them to "let of some steam"? Or could that cause the beer in there
to go permanently flat? Right now they have become gushers. About
half a second after opening foam shoots out, with gusto.
I would see if you can get by with just chilling them and keeping
them cold. If you have too many for your fridge, use a cooler with
some bottles of ice. That ought to be enough to stop any further
fermentation.
Not so easy right now because we sometimes need the extra fridge
downstairs for food preparation.
You could stash a couple of coolers outside with ice. They ought to be
fine this time of year. Cold bottles may also be less likely to break or gush.
I wouldn't open any to try to relieve pressure -- if there are
gushers, there's no easy way to control that. Just have a pitcher
ready when you open bottles for drinking to handle extra foam.
Yeah but I want to reduce the risk of another KAPOOF. Re-closing a
gusher isn't a problem because these are almost all Grolsch bottle.
Just needs to be rinsed and dried on the outside afterwards. Except
for the four 12 ouncers I filled which we'll just drink first.
I think this may be riskier than chilling. If the yeast is still active, you're not dealing with the root problem, and the fermentation may get another jolt from rousing yeast and additional O2 getting into the
bottle. ...
Frankly at this point I'd think you'd be safer chilling bottles
and keeping them in isolation for a bit to see if any more burst. If
they don't then I think you're probably OK as long as they stay cold. Definitely follow Seko's advice on gloves and eye protection while
handling, and a coat might not be a bad idea.
Come to think of it, what you had said earlier about boiling water may
be a problem. I don't think beer bottles are tempered glass, and they
may be expanding and contracting enough to stress the glass.
Also, googling a bit seems to show S-33 as having some issues regarding attenuation. You may want to use a different yeast that is less likely
to stall.
On 2019-02-18 13:59, Baloonon wrote:
en.php?page=1&searchtext=&filter%5B4%5D%5B4_4%5D=4_4&filter%5B1%5D%5B% 5D=all&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=all&searchtext=&searchtextold=Come to think of it, what you had said earlier about boiling water
may be a problem. I don't think beer bottles are tempered glass, and
they may be expanding and contracting enough to stress the glass.
These are European bottles (Netherlands) where they have a deposit and
return system for bottles and crates. Something we should also have in
the US. So the glass is thicker and more sturdy. Over there the
bottles go through machines like this:
https://www.krones.com/de/produkte/maschinen/flaschenreinigungsmaschin
The throughput can be tens of thousands of bottles per hour and AFAIR
they shoot cleaning fluid at 80C or about 175F into the bottles, fast.
It has to be hot and aggressive because in contrast to us hobby
brewers the commercial breweries over there never know where a bottle
has been or for how long it sat somewhere in a contaminated condition.
People generally never rinse bottles at home.
Also, googling a bit seems to show S-33 as having some issues
regarding attenuation. You may want to use a different yeast that is
less likely to stall.
Good point. Though S-33 does give this Saison the characteristic
"yeasty taste" that some people like. Maybe I should rock the
fermenter at times during the two weeks of primary for this beer.
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote:
On 2019-02-18 13:59, Baloonon wrote:
en.php?page=1&searchtext=&filter%5B4%5D%5B4_4%5D=4_4&filter%5B1%5D%5B% 5D=all&filter%5B2%5D%5B%5D=all&searchtext=&searchtextold=Come to think of it, what you had said earlier about boiling water
may be a problem. I don't think beer bottles are tempered glass, and
they may be expanding and contracting enough to stress the glass.
These are European bottles (Netherlands) where they have a deposit and
return system for bottles and crates. Something we should also have in
the US. So the glass is thicker and more sturdy. Over there the
bottles go through machines like this:
https://www.krones.com/de/produkte/maschinen/flaschenreinigungsmaschin
The throughput can be tens of thousands of bottles per hour and AFAIR
they shoot cleaning fluid at 80C or about 175F into the bottles, fast.
It has to be hot and aggressive because in contrast to us hobby
brewers the commercial breweries over there never know where a bottle
has been or for how long it sat somewhere in a contaminated condition.
People generally never rinse bottles at home.
If I remember right, there's also an issue with how quickly the glass
heats up and cools down in addition to the temp -- obviously, glass in
its molten state is vastly hotter than 100C, so heat alone isn't the
problem. So I don't know if there's a way to ensure there is no sudden
change in temp in the cleaning process.
Also, googling a bit seems to show S-33 as having some issues
regarding attenuation. You may want to use a different yeast that is
less likely to stall.
Good point. Though S-33 does give this Saison the characteristic
"yeasty taste" that some people like. Maybe I should rock the
fermenter at times during the two weeks of primary for this beer.
I know with some English yeast there is a lot of effort put into finding
the right combination of pitching temp, temps for fermenting, temps for finishing fermentatation, etc. Also, times and methods for rousing
yeast. 1968 is a known fickle yeast, for example. I'm not sure if there
is data for best handling practices for S-33, and it's probably in part
a function of OG.
Gradually raising temps to the higher end of recommended temps as fermentation is nearing the end, but not completely done, usually
doesn't cause a change in flavor or aroma, so that might be something to
try. Gently rousing yeast at the same time can't hurt either.
Gradually raising temps to the higher end of recommended temps as
fermentation is nearing the end, but not completely done, usually
doesn't cause a change in flavor or aroma, so that might be
something to try. Gently rousing yeast at the same time can't hurt
either.
That is what I am doing right now for a Barley Wine. At around
1.090 OG it is a big beer and I am hoping the Cream Ale in the same
climate chamber won't mind. I pitched two packets or a double dose
of US-05 dry yeast simultaneously and then the Barley Wine needed
the usual 3/4" blow-off tube the first 3-4 days, plus cooling.
Later I turned the cooling off and now I am heating it up to
remain above 70F which should be fine for US-05. Main reason is
I had to brew late in the week but have to rack off at the usual
time next week. So it will only have 11 days in primary versus
teh usual 14 days. Here is hoping it gets below 1.014 by then.
I initially thought about whether I really needed to build heating capabilities into the chamber (a converted wine fridge) but in
hindsight I am glad I did. It's on a micro controller so it won't
go out of bounds.
Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote
Baloonon wrote:
Gradually raising temps to the higher end of recommended temps as
fermentation is nearing the end, but not completely done, usually
doesn't cause a change in flavor or aroma, so that might be
something to try. Gently rousing yeast at the same time can't hurt
either.
That is what I am doing right now for a Barley Wine. At around
1.090 OG it is a big beer and I am hoping the Cream Ale in the same
climate chamber won't mind. I pitched two packets or a double dose
of US-05 dry yeast simultaneously and then the Barley Wine needed
the usual 3/4" blow-off tube the first 3-4 days, plus cooling.
Later I turned the cooling off and now I am heating it up to
remain above 70F which should be fine for US-05. Main reason is
I had to brew late in the week but have to rack off at the usual
time next week. So it will only have 11 days in primary versus
teh usual 14 days. Here is hoping it gets below 1.014 by then.
I initially thought about whether I really needed to build heating
capabilities into the chamber (a converted wine fridge) but in
hindsight I am glad I did. It's on a micro controller so it won't
go out of bounds.
I just read this article, and it got my interest. The last section "Hope Creep" describes how the combination of hops and yeast can lead to
exploding cans/bottles:
http://brulosophy.com/2019/02/21/the-surprising-science-of-dry-hopping- lessons-from-tom-shellhammer/
https://tinyurl.com/yyg7d3bu
Dry hopping adds enzymes from the hops that can kickstart a final round of fermentation when yeast remains in solution and the beer is not fully attenuated.
So essentially, dry hopping and then bottling shortly after may result in gushers or bombs.
What I'm curious about is whether this only something that happens during
dry hopping, or if there are other triggers that make yeast reactivate -- I suspect that is the case.
At any rate, it hints that one answer to under-attenuation may be dry hopping. I often read of English beers like Strong Ales being dry hopped in http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com and I wonder if they weren't just trying to add to the aroma -- were they alos trying to get finicky yeast to finish up?
One possible way to go might be to wait until a hydro reading shows the initial fermentation has stopped. Then dry hop for a few days. Pull the
hops, and wait a week after a hydro reading shows any followup fermentation has finished before bottling. If there is a second round of fermentation,
it ought to knock down the FG and presumably limit the odds of excess CO2 production in the bottles.
Obviously dry hopping is better for some styles more than others. I'd think even something like a Dubbel would be OK with a low-moderate dry hopping of whatever hop was used on brew day. It could even be done as an experiment, with half a batch bottled prior to dry hopping and the second half dry
hopped and then bottled.
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