• Beige G3 mystery

    From liz@liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) to comp.sys.mac.vintage on Wed Jan 28 15:54:04 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    A few days ago I posted this to <uk.comp.sys.mac> but nobody replied
    with any suggestions. Does anyone here have an idea of what might have
    gone wrong?

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Beige G3 runing OS8.6

    There are two drives (call them 'A' and 'B'). Drive 'A' is an SSD with
    two partitions, one for the System and one for the Applications & Data.
    Drive 'B' is disk HD with two similar partitions: Backup System and
    Backup data.

    On shutdown, a script runs Folders Synchroniser to backup Data from 'A'
    to 'B' - although I often cancel this if nothing essential has taken
    place during the session (backup takes about 90 minutes, as there are a
    lot of files). The System is not regularly backed up, as it doesn't
    change.

    Everything has been working normally until this morning: when I switched
    on, the Startup drive, System 'A', booted up as usual but the Finder
    crashed when the other three partitions tried to mount, I disconected
    drive 'A' and forced the system to boot up from drive 'B'. System 'B'
    mounted up but the Finder crashed when it tried to mount the remaining partition: 'Data 'B'.

    This suggested that Data 'B' was causing the trouble, so I reconnected
    drive'A' and disconnected drive 'B'. System 'A' and Data 'A' both
    mounted up but when I tried to open either of them, the Finder crashed.
    With extensions switched off, system 'B' would run the machine and allow
    data 'B' to open but the date was wrong and I could not get at nospam's
    patch to correct it.

    Finally I started up on a CD ROM and replace the System folder 'A' with
    a copy of the backup System folder on 'B' . Then I ran Disk Warrior on
    both system partitions. Finally I patched the date and re-ran Disk
    Warrior to put the dates back correctly.

    It has taken me most of the morning and I still don't know what caused
    it.

    ~~~~~~
    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage on Thu Jan 29 10:13:05 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 2026-01-28 15:54:04 +0000, Liz Tuddenham said:

    A few days ago I posted this to <uk.comp.sys.mac> but nobody replied
    with any suggestions. Does anyone here have an idea of what might have
    gone wrong?

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Beige G3 runing OS8.6

    There are two drives (call them 'A' and 'B'). Drive 'A' is an SSD with
    two partitions, one for the System and one for the Applications & Data.
    Drive 'B' is disk HD with two similar partitions: Backup System and
    Backup data.

    On shutdown, a script runs Folders Synchroniser to backup Data from 'A'
    to 'B' - although I often cancel this if nothing essential has taken
    place during the session (backup takes about 90 minutes, as there are a
    lot of files). The System is not regularly backed up, as it doesn't
    change.

    Everything has been working normally until this morning: when I switched
    on, the Startup drive, System 'A', booted up as usual but the Finder
    crashed when the other three partitions tried to mount, I disconected
    drive 'A' and forced the system to boot up from drive 'B'. System 'B' mounted up but the Finder crashed when it tried to mount the remaining partition: 'Data 'B'.

    This suggested that Data 'B' was causing the trouble, so I reconnected drive'A' and disconnected drive 'B'. System 'A' and Data 'A' both
    mounted up but when I tried to open either of them, the Finder crashed.
    With extensions switched off, system 'B' would run the machine and allow
    data 'B' to open but the date was wrong and I could not get at nospam's
    patch to correct it.

    Finally I started up on a CD ROM and replace the System folder 'A' with
    a copy of the backup System folder on 'B' . Then I ran Disk Warrior on
    both system partitions. Finally I patched the date and re-ran Disk
    Warrior to put the dates back correctly.

    It has taken me most of the morning and I still don't know what caused
    it.

    ~~~~~~

    Could be a one-off glitch, but it does sound similar-ish to what
    happened to my beige G3 minitower. With mine, things got worse and
    eventually I had to replace the computer. Something in the I/O hardware
    simply broke, because the machine eventually refused to work properly
    with any drive, including USB drives via a USB card, but the drives
    themselves were all fine (and still being used as external drives for
    this Mac Mini). Even clean reinstalling the OS before that didn't fix
    the issue.

    Best option is to do regular backups in case the computer suddenly dies completely.

    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From liz@liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) to comp.sys.mac.vintage on Thu Jan 29 15:01:22 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

    On 2026-01-28 15:54:04 +0000, Liz Tuddenham said:

    A few days ago I posted this to <uk.comp.sys.mac> but nobody replied
    with any suggestions. Does anyone here have an idea of what might have gone wrong?

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Beige G3 runing OS8.6

    There are two drives (call them 'A' and 'B'). Drive 'A' is an SSD with
    two partitions, one for the System and one for the Applications & Data. Drive 'B' is disk HD with two similar partitions: Backup System and
    Backup data.

    On shutdown, a script runs Folders Synchroniser to backup Data from 'A'
    to 'B' - although I often cancel this if nothing essential has taken
    place during the session (backup takes about 90 minutes, as there are a
    lot of files). The System is not regularly backed up, as it doesn't change.

    Everything has been working normally until this morning: when I switched on, the Startup drive, System 'A', booted up as usual but the Finder crashed when the other three partitions tried to mount, I disconected drive 'A' and forced the system to boot up from drive 'B'. System 'B' mounted up but the Finder crashed when it tried to mount the remaining partition: 'Data 'B'.

    This suggested that Data 'B' was causing the trouble, so I reconnected drive'A' and disconnected drive 'B'. System 'A' and Data 'A' both
    mounted up but when I tried to open either of them, the Finder crashed. With extensions switched off, system 'B' would run the machine and allow data 'B' to open but the date was wrong and I could not get at nospam's patch to correct it.

    Finally I started up on a CD ROM and replace the System folder 'A' with
    a copy of the backup System folder on 'B' . Then I ran Disk Warrior on both system partitions. Finally I patched the date and re-ran Disk
    Warrior to put the dates back correctly.

    It has taken me most of the morning and I still don't know what caused
    it.

    ~~~~~~

    Could be a one-off glitch, but it does sound similar-ish to what
    happened to my beige G3 minitower. With mine, things got worse and eventually I had to replace the computer. Something in the I/O hardware simply broke, because the machine eventually refused to work properly
    with any drive, including USB drives via a USB card, but the drives themselves were all fine (and still being used as external drives for
    this Mac Mini). Even clean reinstalling the OS before that didn't fix
    the issue.

    I initially suspected a hardware fault, so I re-seated all the
    connectors and baords (with one hand resting on earthed metalwork) but
    that made no difference.

    Best option is to do regular backups in case the computer suddenly dies completely.

    This was affecting the main drive and the backup. I've been trying to
    think what components of the software could be common to both drives
    e.g. some extensions, the Desktop or the Launcher, but both drives gave
    similar (but not identical) faults when the other, unused, drive was
    physically disconnected. It couldn't have been something faulty backed
    up and corrupting both drives because the last backup had been done
    several days before the fault showed up.

    Disk Warrior sorted it out, so it had to be a software fault - but what?
    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From David Kennedy@davidkennedygm@gmail.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage on Thu Jan 29 16:17:31 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 29/01/2026 15:01, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Disk Warrior sorted it out, so it had to be a software fault - but what?

    In ye olde days - i.e. up to OS9.x and pre osx 10.5 ish - things were often like that. Sometimes things went wrong for no apparent reason. I spent a lot of time trying to figure it out but these days rarely have that problem, mostly now it's brain failure...
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Your Name@YourName@YourISP.com to comp.sys.mac.vintage on Fri Jan 30 10:43:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    On 2026-01-29 15:01:22 +0000, Liz Tuddenham said:
    Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
    On 2026-01-28 15:54:04 +0000, Liz Tuddenham said:

    A few days ago I posted this to <uk.comp.sys.mac> but nobody replied
    with any suggestions. Does anyone here have an idea of what might have
    gone wrong?

    ~~~~~~~~~~

    Beige G3 runing OS8.6

    There are two drives (call them 'A' and 'B'). Drive 'A' is an SSD with
    two partitions, one for the System and one for the Applications & Data.
    Drive 'B' is disk HD with two similar partitions: Backup System and
    Backup data.

    On shutdown, a script runs Folders Synchroniser to backup Data from 'A'
    to 'B' - although I often cancel this if nothing essential has taken
    place during the session (backup takes about 90 minutes, as there are a
    lot of files). The System is not regularly backed up, as it doesn't
    change.

    Everything has been working normally until this morning: when I switched >>> on, the Startup drive, System 'A', booted up as usual but the Finder
    crashed when the other three partitions tried to mount, I disconected
    drive 'A' and forced the system to boot up from drive 'B'. System 'B'
    mounted up but the Finder crashed when it tried to mount the remaining
    partition: 'Data 'B'.

    This suggested that Data 'B' was causing the trouble, so I reconnected
    drive'A' and disconnected drive 'B'. System 'A' and Data 'A' both
    mounted up but when I tried to open either of them, the Finder crashed.
    With extensions switched off, system 'B' would run the machine and allow >>> data 'B' to open but the date was wrong and I could not get at nospam's
    patch to correct it.

    Finally I started up on a CD ROM and replace the System folder 'A' with >>> a copy of the backup System folder on 'B' . Then I ran Disk Warrior on
    both system partitions. Finally I patched the date and re-ran Disk
    Warrior to put the dates back correctly.

    It has taken me most of the morning and I still don't know what caused
    it.

    ~~~~~~

    Could be a one-off glitch, but it does sound similar-ish to what
    happened to my beige G3 minitower. With mine, things got worse and
    eventually I had to replace the computer. Something in the I/O hardware
    simply broke, because the machine eventually refused to work properly
    with any drive, including USB drives via a USB card, but the drives
    themselves were all fine (and still being used as external drives for
    this Mac Mini). Even clean reinstalling the OS before that didn't fix
    the issue.

    I initially suspected a hardware fault, so I re-seated all the
    connectors and baords (with one hand resting on earthed metalwork) but
    that made no difference.

    It could be a deeper hardware issue with the I/O chips or circuitry.
    *IF* that does turn out to be the cause, the only solution is either a
    new motherboard or a new computer (unless you or you know someone who
    is a highly skilled circuit board solderer and can find out which parts
    need replacing). :-(



    Best option is to do regular backups in case the computer suddenly dies
    completely.

    This was affecting the main drive and the backup. I've been trying to
    think what components of the software could be common to both drives
    e.g. some extensions, the Desktop or the Launcher, but both drives gave similar (but not identical) faults when the other, unused, drive was physically disconnected. It couldn't have been something faulty backed
    up and corrupting both drives because the last backup had been done
    several days before the fault showed up.

    Disk Warrior sorted it out, so it had to be a software fault - but what?

    It could be a one-off or a randomly / semi-randomly occuring fault
    (e.g. a component getting hot after a certain amount fo time).

    Since both drives showed the problem when booted separately, that would
    make me think it is a hardware fault, *unless* one of the backup syncs
    copied across a system file that was just about to fail, but I don't
    know of any such file that would cause partitions to be affected
    differently like that.

    About all you can really do is keep a watch to see if it happens again,
    and keep your fingers crossed that it doesn't.


    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From vintageapplemac@vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) to comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sat Jan 31 12:36:32 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    In article <10lg16r$1dt4l$1@dont-email.me>, davidkennedy@nospamtodaythanks.invald wrote:

    On 29/01/2026 15:01, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Disk Warrior sorted it out, so it had to be a software fault - but what?

    In ye olde days - i.e. up to OS9.x and pre osx 10.5 ish - things were often like that. Sometimes things went wrong for no apparent reason. I spent a lot of time trying to figure it out but these days rarely have that problem, mostly now it's brain failure...

    A number of years ago, one of my OS9 machines (it was a G4 MDD) started
    going glitchy, not the same kind of issue as described by the original
    poster but similar kinda random odd stuff that I could never get to the
    bottom of.

    One day, I upgraded the stock CPU fan with a new SilenX one, and at the
    same time moved the internal speaker out of the way and sat a small fan
    against the grille where the speaker formerly faced - the glitchiness went away, so I made the presumption that something somewhere was simply
    getting too hot and adding in better air circulation solved it.

    Might be worth giving a try, get some new fans into the machine for cooler running?
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From liz@liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) to comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sat Jan 31 13:04:21 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:

    In article <10lg16r$1dt4l$1@dont-email.me>, davidkennedy@nospamtodaythanks.invald wrote:

    On 29/01/2026 15:01, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Disk Warrior sorted it out, so it had to be a software fault - but what?

    In ye olde days - i.e. up to OS9.x and pre osx 10.5 ish - things were often like that. Sometimes things went wrong for no apparent reason. I spent a lot
    of time trying to figure it out but these days rarely have that problem, mostly now it's brain failure...

    A number of years ago, one of my OS9 machines (it was a G4 MDD) started
    going glitchy, not the same kind of issue as described by the original
    poster but similar kinda random odd stuff that I could never get to the bottom of.

    One day, I upgraded the stock CPU fan with a new SilenX one, and at the
    same time moved the internal speaker out of the way and sat a small fan against the grille where the speaker formerly faced - the glitchiness went away, so I made the presumption that something somewhere was simply
    getting too hot and adding in better air circulation solved it.

    Might be worth giving a try, get some new fans into the machine for cooler running?

    Thanks for that suggestion, I could clean some of the dust out of the
    original one!
    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From vintageapplemac@vintageapplemac@gmail.com (scole) to comp.sys.mac.vintage on Sat Jan 31 13:18:49 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.sys.mac.vintage

    In article <1rpsxky.hccpw711c7mxaN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    scole <vintageapplemac@gmail.com> wrote:


    Might be worth giving a try, get some new fans into the machine for cooler running?

    Thanks for that suggestion, I could clean some of the dust out of the original one!

    No worries, it surely can't hurt to try it and you might get lucky and it solves it. And the Silenx fans are cheap, new-old-stock are always on
    eBays for a few pounds - I recommend them, they really are *very* quiet!
    --- Synchronet 3.21b-Linux NewsLink 1.2