From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 11/12/2024 Andy Burns wrote:

Presumably, before too long there will be a Pi5x0 where the M.2 socket
and associated components are fitted.

Pi500+ now available, 16GB RAM, 256GB M.2 and much nicer keyboard

<https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-500-plus>
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 25/09/2025 08:39, Andy Burns wrote:

On 11/12/2024 Andy Burns wrote:

Presumably, before too long there will be a Pi5x0 where the M.2 socket
and associated components are fitted.

Pi500+ now available, 16GB RAM, 256GB M.2 and much nicer keyboard

Apart from the teeny keycap legends,

<https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-500-plus>

and a price above many a desktop PC. :-(

Nonetheless its a nice bit of kit and because the OS is preinstalled, it competes with winders.
--
"I am inclined to tell the truth and dislike people who lie consistently.
This makes me unfit for the company of people of a Left persuasion, and
all women"

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

<https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-500-plus>

and a price above many a desktop PC. :-(

I can see a compute stick with 1/4 the RAM and 1/4 the SSD for £20 less,
but not much else.

Nonetheless its a nice bit of kit and because the OS is preinstalled, it competes with winders.

I might consider getting one for my brother ...

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 9/25/25 10:58, Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

<https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-500-plus>

and a price above many a desktop PC. :-(

I can see a compute stick with 1/4 the RAM and 1/4 the SSD for £20 less, but not much else.

Nonetheless its a nice bit of kit and because the OS is preinstalled,
it competes with winders.

I might consider getting one for my brother ...

Loads of Beelink type N100s cheaper.

Armbian on the oPi5 is getting much more stable, and there is a new,
much faster version oPi rumoured. Potentially, kit that will have a more stable OS to begin with. Presumably due to the oPi getting a kicking for having poor software support.

I wouldn't buy anything rPi at the moment.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 25/09/2025 10:58, Andy Burns wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Andy Burns wrote:

<https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-500-plus>

and a price above many a desktop PC. :-(

I can see a compute stick with 1/4 the RAM and 1/4 the SSD for £20
less, but not much else.

https://thepihut.com/products/raspberry-pi-500-plus

Nonetheless its a nice bit of kit and because the OS is
preinstalled, it competes with winders.

I might consider getting one for my brother ...

I instantly said to myself 'VIC 20'

I sport of love it, But regretfully it doesn't make sense for me

ExplainingComputers has a nice YouTube review - its fast enough for full
HD streaming at less than 6W...
--
To ban Christmas, simply give turkeys the vote.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes:

On 11/12/2024 Andy Burns wrote:

Presumably, before too long there will be a Pi5x0 where the M.2
socket and associated components are fitted.

Pi500+ now available, 16GB RAM, 256GB M.2 and much nicer keyboard

<https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-500-plus>

I'm seriously considering it, only found out about it the other
day. Incidentally i was considering doing a jimmy rig of a wireless full keyboard with a 3d printed bottom shell for my pi500. The pi400 is long
gone. I took the mobo out and ceremoniously destroyed the keyboard. It's
dust.

The 500's keyboard is 90% better. THe spacebar is still a hunk of shit.

I'm sort of nervous that the 500+'s spacebar is junk. Will it register a keypress if the thumb hits it on the far side? I don't know.

I do like the nvme addition. If you read the most current copy of
raspberry pi magazine, they go into detail about it, as well as an
interview with the engineers who designed it.

What bugs me is their intention to customize their keycaps and insist on
a custom power button that most other keycap replacements lack. That,
and nonstandard buttons for led controls, etc.

They brag about being able to replace the keys, but can't replace them
all. The enter key is also non-standard and replacement keys have to be fenagled to fit right.

I sort of hesitate on getting the 500+. I saw somewhere a kit can be
installed under the keys to make them less clacky. Any truth to that?

D


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Daniel wrote:

The enter key is also non-standard

At least it's ISO shaped.

When will the rPi 500++ come out with in-built RTC battery and PoE?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 09:22:11 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Daniel wrote:

The enter key is also non-standard

At least it's ISO shaped.

When will the rPi 500++ come out with in-built RTC battery and PoE?

I was a bit surprised to find NO mention of the RTC in the 500+'s data
sheet.

Currently I am running a Pi4 with an RTC backed up with a fairly tiny supercapacitor. I read a claim (which I have not independently verified)
that the supercapacitor can keep my clock running accurately for a month
or longer with no external power applied.

When the Pi5 was first introduced, both lithium battery and supercapacitor options were discussed for RTC backup, but since then I've read close to nothing of the supercapacitor option.
--
chrispam1@me.com is an infrequently monitored address. Email may get lost. kakistocracy | kakəˈstäkrəsē | noun |
government by the least suitable or competent citizens of a state
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 28/09/2025 08:51, Daniel wrote:

I'm sort of nervous that the 500+'s spacebar is junk. Will it register a keypress if the thumb hits it on the far side? I don't know.

I ordered my 500+ on Thursday almost as soon as I saw the announcement,
and it arrived on Friday so I've had a couple of days to play with it.

The keyboard is really nice. It's not as nice as the filco keyboard on
my PC, which uses Cherry Blue keyswitches, but that keyboard cost almost
as much as the Pi 500+ all on its own. The 500+ has a well-constructed keyboard with proper mechanical keyswitches; it's nice to type on and,
yes, the spacebar is usable for its whole length.

What bugs me is their intention to customize their keycaps and insist on
a custom power button that most other keycap replacements lack. That,
and nonstandard buttons for led controls, etc.

They brag about being able to replace the keys, but can't replace them
all. The enter key is also non-standard and replacement keys have to be fenagled to fit right.

I think the point is that you *can* change the keycaps, not that you
have to, or that they expect you to. It probably simplifies the process
of supporting various AZERTY and QWERTZ keyboard variants.

They're using standard keyswitches (with the addition of RGB LEDs
underneath) so you'd expect the keycaps to be removable. I don't know
how hard it would be to source third-party *transparent* keytops, so
that the legend glows through, though.

I've kept the lighting turned off, so far, but it is nice that the CAPS
LOCK button lights up by way of an indicator (there's no NUM LOCK (or
numeric keypad) or SCROLL LOCK).

I sort of hesitate on getting the 500+. I saw somewhere a kit can be installed under the keys to make them less clacky. Any truth to that?

I don't know about any kit ...

The keyswitches in the 500+ may be "Blue", but they're not as clicky as
Cherry Blue. Clicky enough to give some feedback, but not intrusive.

Then again, I like Cherry Blue so I may be inured to the click.
--
Cheers,
(a different) Daniel.


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 28/09/2025 09:57, Chris Schram wrote:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 09:22:11 +0100, Andy Burns wrote:

Daniel wrote:

The enter key is also non-standard

At least it's ISO shaped.

When will the rPi 500++ come out with in-built RTC battery and PoE?

I was a bit surprised to find NO mention of the RTC in the 500+'s data
sheet.

Currently I am running a Pi4 with an RTC backed up with a fairly tiny supercapacitor. I read a claim (which I have not independently verified)
that the supercapacitor can keep my clock running accurately for a month
or longer with no external power applied.

When the Pi5 was first introduced, both lithium battery and supercapacitor options were discussed for RTC backup, but since then I've read close to nothing of the supercapacitor option.

It has the socket, so you install the Pi5 RTC battery I believe
--
Chris
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 11:52:30 +0100, Daniel James wrote:

I've kept the lighting turned off, so far, but it is nice that the
CAPS LOCK button lights up by way of an indicator (there's no NUM
LOCK (or numeric keypad) or SCROLL LOCK).

I would never use the caps lock key as a caps lock, anyway. On all my
main machines, it’s repurposed for the Compose key <https://wiki.wlug.org.nz/ComposeKey>.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 11:52:30 +0100, Daniel James wrote:

I've kept the lighting turned off, so far, but it is nice that the
CAPS LOCK button lights up by way of an indicator (there's no NUM
LOCK (or numeric keypad) or SCROLL LOCK).

I would never use the caps lock key as a caps lock, anyway. On all my
main machines, it’s repurposed for the Compose key <https://wiki.wlug.org.nz/ComposeKey>.

I'm with you, anytime I get a new keyboard I pop that capsfucker
off. Somewhere in the ocean is a island of caps lock keys that Ive
promplty disposed. The most worthless key ever, for my daily use at
least.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 29/09/2025 01:25, Daniel wrote:

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 11:52:30 +0100, Daniel James wrote:

I've kept the lighting turned off, so far, but it is nice that the
CAPS LOCK button lights up by way of an indicator (there's no NUM
LOCK (or numeric keypad) or SCROLL LOCK).

I would never use the caps lock key as a caps lock, anyway. On all my
main machines, it’s repurposed for the Compose key
<https://wiki.wlug.org.nz/ComposeKey>.

I'm with you, anytime I get a new keyboard I pop that capsfucker
off. Somewhere in the ocean is a island of caps lock keys that Ive
promplty disposed. The most worthless key ever, for my daily use at
least.

I mapped mine to an 'extended keycode' key.
So this is what capslock-m-u nets me...
µ
--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 29/09/2025 01:25, Daniel wrote:

Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> writes:

On Sun, 28 Sep 2025 11:52:30 +0100, Daniel James wrote:

I've kept the lighting turned off, so far, but it is nice that the
CAPS LOCK button lights up by way of an indicator (there's no NUM
LOCK (or numeric keypad) or SCROLL LOCK).

I would never use the caps lock key as a caps lock, anyway. On all my
main machines, it’s repurposed for the Compose key
<https://wiki.wlug.org.nz/ComposeKey>.

I'm with you, anytime I get a new keyboard I pop that capsfucker
off. Somewhere in the ocean is a island of caps lock keys that Ive
promplty disposed. The most worthless key ever, for my daily use at
least.

I mapped mine to an 'extended keycode' key.
So this is what capslock-m-u nets me...
µ

--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early
twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Apart from the teeny keycap legends,

<https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-500-plus>

and a price above many a desktop PC. :-(

$200 what kind of Intel desktop PC you can get for this money, outside mini PCs that yeah... similar performance actually but different platform and design goals and purpose.
.... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 02/10/2025 13:22, Danny Bee wrote:

TN> Apart from the teeny keycap legends,
TN>
TN> > <https://www.raspberrypi.com/products/raspberry-pi-500-plus>
TN>
TN> and a price above many a desktop PC. :-(
$200 what kind of Intel desktop PC you can get for this money, outside mini PCs that yeah... similar performance actually but different platform and design goals and purpose.
.... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.

Well here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent
performance refurbished desktop.
--
Microsoft : the best reason to go to Linux that ever existed.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 02/10/2025 11:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

... here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent performance refurbished desktop.

Comparisons of that sort are always difficult.

To start with: comparing a new Pi 500+ with a refurbished desktop isn't
fair. One is new the other isn't.

What do you mean by 'equivalent performance'? Most PCs spend most of
their time idle. For some uses performance matters, for others it
doesn't. I have used a Pi 5 quite a bit, and I find it is sufficiently responsive that I don't notice any sluggishness compared with my (much
more powerful) desktop PC.

The Pi uses less power than a PC -- especially when that PC is a
refurbished older model -- which is reason in itself to prefer it.

The Pi 500+ has nice mechanical keyboard. My PC also has a nice
mechanical keyboard, but that keyboard cost 2/3 of the price of a Pi
500+ all on its own. A refurb PC that you buy for the cost of a new Pi
500+ probably won't come with a keyboard at all.

For some of us the mere fact that the Pi doesn't use a boring old x86-64
CPU is reason enough to prefer it over a similarly priced used PC. For
some of us GPIO access is important.

The cheapest refurb desktop I can find on Tier1 online, today, is a Dell Optiplex Micro at £299 when spec'd with the same RAM and SSD as the Pi
500+. About 50% more than the Pi 500+. That's a 6-core i5, so definitely
more powerful than the Pi. At that price it comes with Windows 10 (or
11) Home so you'd probably want to spend another £20 for the Pro
version. It doesn't come with any application software, but Firefox, LibreOffice, Etc. are as free for Windows as they are for the Pi. You do
get an audio jack, which the Pi lacks, and can expand the RAM.

It's hard to say which is the better value. So much depends on what you
want to do with it.
--
Cheers,
Daniel.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 02/10/2025 14:32, Daniel James wrote:

On 02/10/2025 11:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

... here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent
performance refurbished desktop.

Comparisons of that sort are always difficult.

To start with: comparing a new Pi 500+ with a refurbished desktop isn't fair. One is new the other isn't.

What do you mean by 'equivalent performance'? Most PCs spend most of
their time idle. For some uses performance matters, for others it
doesn't. I have used a Pi 5 quite a bit, and I find it is sufficiently responsive that I don't notice any sluggishness compared with my (much
more powerful) desktop PC.

Well in my case when I need performance it's about watching hi res
videos, playing the occasional video game, running a 3D slicer and
editing videos.

And sadly running a windows VM.

The Pi uses less power than a PC -- especially when that PC is a
refurbished older model -- which is reason in itself to prefer it.

The Pi 500+ has nice mechanical keyboard. My PC also has a nice
mechanical keyboard, but that keyboard cost 2/3 of the price of a Pi
500+ all on its own. A refurb PC that you buy for the cost of a new Pi
500+ probably won't come with a keyboard at all.

For some of us the mere fact that the Pi doesn't use a boring old x86-64
CPU is reason enough to prefer it over a similarly priced used PC. For
some of us GPIO access is important.

I accept that, but sadly I couldn't justify replacing a desktop that
does extremely well

The cheapest refurb desktop I can find on Tier1 online, today, is a Dell Optiplex Micro at £299 when spec'd with the same RAM and SSD as the Pi 500+. About 50% more than the Pi 500+. That's a 6-core i5, so definitely more powerful than the Pi. At that price it comes with Windows 10 (or
11) Home so you'd probably want to spend another £20 for the Pro
version. It doesn't come with any application software, but Firefox, LibreOffice, Etc. are as free for Windows as they are for the Pi. You do
get an audio jack, which the Pi lacks, and can expand the RAM.

I'd install linux anyway

It's hard to say which is the better value. So much depends on what you
want to do with it.

Refurbished HP EliteDesk 800 G4 Core i5 8th gen 16GB RAM 256GB SSD
Windows 11 Pro Mini Desktop

SKU: T1/800G4-MINI-16GB
Excellent Condition

Free Norton VPN for 1 year

Intel Core i5 Processor
16GB RAM: Smooth multi-tasking, gaming & content creation
256GB SSD: Enough for applications & personal files
Windows 11 Pro: With additional tools and options for business users
1 year warranty

SAVE £50
£229.97
--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"


--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 2 Oct 2025 at 14:32:36 BST, Daniel James wrote:

On 02/10/2025 11:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

... here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent performance
refurbished desktop.

Comparisons of that sort are always difficult.

To start with: comparing a new Pi 500+ with a refurbished desktop isn't
fair. One is new the other isn't.

What do you mean by 'equivalent performance'? Most PCs spend most of
their time idle. For some uses performance matters, for others it
doesn't. I have used a Pi 5 quite a bit, and I find it is sufficiently responsive that I don't notice any sluggishness compared with my (much
more powerful) desktop PC.

The Pi uses less power than a PC -- especially when that PC is a
refurbished older model -- which is reason in itself to prefer it.

OoI - are they both pretty much silent?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 02/10/2025 16:01, RJH wrote:

On 2 Oct 2025 at 14:32:36 BST, Daniel James wrote:

On 02/10/2025 11:12, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

... here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent performance >>> refurbished desktop.

Comparisons of that sort are always difficult.

To start with: comparing a new Pi 500+ with a refurbished desktop isn't
fair. One is new the other isn't.

What do you mean by 'equivalent performance'? Most PCs spend most of
their time idle. For some uses performance matters, for others it
doesn't. I have used a Pi 5 quite a bit, and I find it is sufficiently
responsive that I don't notice any sluggishness compared with my (much
more powerful) desktop PC.

The Pi uses less power than a PC -- especially when that PC is a
refurbished older model -- which is reason in itself to prefer it.

OoI - are they both pretty much silent?

My PC is.

It probably has a fan, but I seldom hear it

Intel® Core™ i5-6600T CPU @ 2.70GHz × 4

I'd say it idles at 5-10W mostly similar to a pi 5.

The trouble is that Intel has got its MIPs per watt up nearly as high as
a Pi. And does more MIPS.
--
Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have
guns, why should we let them have ideas?

Josef Stalin

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 02/10/2025 18:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The trouble is that Intel has got its MIPs per watt up nearly as high as
a Pi.

Intel has nothing with equivalent performance within a factor of 3 - and that's just the CPU, it's about 5x when you consider the whole system.

---druck

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 02/10/2025 16:01, RJH wrote:

The Pi uses less power than a PC -- especially when that PC is a
refurbished older model -- which is reason in itself to prefer it.

OoI - are they both pretty much silent?

Good question.

Different refurbished PCs will have different cooling solutions (and
different needs for cooling). Some may use passive cooling, others may
have a fan. Fans tend to be noisier in older machines, so a refurbished machine is unlikely to be as quiet as a new one.

My main PC has a sizeable aftermarket metal cooler with a fan that
seldom turns on, but is (barely) audible when it does.

My Pi 5 is in an Argon Neo 5 NVMe case, which does have a fan but also
makes use of the metal case as a cooler. I've never noticed the fan
making a sound.

I believe the Pi 500+ is fanless (I haven't taken mine apart, yet).

I had a Pi 4 in the standard pink/white Raspberry Pi case with a fan
shim. After a year or so it started to hum noticeably so I removed the
fan shim and put on a small metal heatsink. It runs a little warmer now,
but not dangerously so.
--
Cheers,
Daniel.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 02/10/2025 22:45, Daniel James wrote:

I believe the Pi 500+ is fanless (I haven't taken mine apart, yet).

The online teardowns say this is true.
--
When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men in a society, over
the course of time they create for themselves a legal system that
authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.

Frédéric Bastiat

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 11:12:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent
performance refurbished desktop.

Still, the newer ARM-based machine would consume less electricity, and
take up less space, than the older x86-based one.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 10/2/25 21:08, druck wrote:

On 02/10/2025 18:17, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

The trouble is that Intel has got its MIPs per watt up nearly as high
as a Pi.

Intel has nothing with equivalent performance within a factor of 3 - and that's just the CPU, it's about 5x when you consider the whole system.

---druck

Orange Pi5 and Mac M1... are much better. Orange Pi5 runs at 2 watts and
is faster than rPi5.

I would buy a second hand Mac M1 if I thought I could get Linux to run
well on it.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 03/10/2025 09:22, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 11:12:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent
performance refurbished desktop.

Still, the newer ARM-based machine would consume less electricity, and
take up less space, than the older x86-based one.

Amazon are currently selling this:

KASEPE
Mini PC 8GB DDR5 256GB M.2 SSD, Mini PC Alder Lake-Ν95 (up to 3.4GHz)
Win 11 Pro 4 Cores 4 Threads, Micro PC Support 4K Triple Displays, Mini Desktop PC-WiFi 6 Bluetooth 4.2
for £84.00

I bought one of these last year for an application where I could also
have chosen a Pi5. In the end the Intel version of the software that I
needed to run was more mature than the ARM version. Otherwise there
was very little to choose in my case. I have also used some very
nice Bosgame N100 machines which have multiple 2.5Gbit/s ethernet ports.
These machines use notebook-style centrifugal fans which are very quiet.
One thing that did take a little sorting out was that the BIOS thinks
they are notebook PCs with a lid switch but the hardware doesn't have
such a switch. This makes them shut down after a while when a
graphical interface is active. This is annoying when they are
being remotely operated in another country. However, it only needs
a 1-line change in a configuration file to fix this.

For many purposes the Pi5 is an excellent choice - just not
everything.

John
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 19:36:15 +0100, John R Walliker wrote:

On 03/10/2025 09:22, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 11:12:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent
performance refurbished desktop.

Still, the newer ARM-based machine would consume less electricity, and
take up less space, than the older x86-based one.

Amazon are currently selling this:

KASEPE Mini PC 8GB DDR5 256GB M.2 SSD, Mini PC Alder Lake-Ν95 (up to
3.4GHz) Win 11 Pro 4 Cores 4 Threads, Micro PC Support 4K Triple
Displays, Mini Desktop PC-WiFi 6 Bluetooth 4.2 for £84.00

Is that this one <https://www.amazon.co.uk/KASEPE-Mini-PC-Computer-Bluetooth/dp/B0CP7P77D5/>? Note that, while it says up top “up to 3.4GHz”, the detailed specs
further down only show “1.7GHz”. Intel’s Alder Lake seems to be about four years old, and remember it’s part of the “Celeron” branding.

(Verily, it is said, “the large print giveth, and the fine print
taketh away”.)

For many purposes the Pi5 is an excellent choice - just not
everything.

I think the Raspberry Pi range can compare for value for money against
anything in the x86 camp. That’s why Intel’s attempts to compete, like
with Atom and NUC, were failures.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 10:00:57 +0100, Pancho wrote:

I would buy a second hand Mac M1 if I thought I could get Linux to run
well on it.

What kind of GPIO does it have?
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 03/10/2025 19:36, John R Walliker wrote:

Amazon are currently selling this:

KASEPE
Mini PC 8GB DDR5 256GB M.2 SSD, Mini PC Alder Lake-Ν95 (up to 3.4GHz)
Win 11 Pro 4 Cores 4 Threads, Micro PC Support 4K Triple Displays, Mini Desktop PC-WiFi 6 Bluetooth 4.2
for £84.00

It says, "Operating system DOS", in spite of the headline.

I wonder what you actually get!

Like the price though. What's the catch?
--
Mike Scott
Harlow, England
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

Mike Scott wrote:

It says, "Operating system DOS", in spite of the headline.

I wonder what you actually get!

Well, no Windows license, obviously. :-)

-jw-
--
And now for something completely different...
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 04/10/2025 06:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 19:36:15 +0100, John R Walliker wrote:

On 03/10/2025 09:22, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 11:12:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent
performance refurbished desktop.

Still, the newer ARM-based machine would consume less electricity, and
take up less space, than the older x86-based one.

Amazon are currently selling this:

KASEPE Mini PC 8GB DDR5 256GB M.2 SSD, Mini PC Alder Lake-Ν95 (up to
3.4GHz) Win 11 Pro 4 Cores 4 Threads, Micro PC Support 4K Triple
Displays, Mini Desktop PC-WiFi 6 Bluetooth 4.2 for £84.00

Is that this one <https://www.amazon.co.uk/KASEPE-Mini-PC-Computer-Bluetooth/dp/B0CP7P77D5/>?

Yes. I have one of those.

Note that, while it says up top “up to 3.4GHz”, the detailed specs further down only show “1.7GHz”. Intel’s Alder Lake seems to be about four years old, and remember it’s part of the “Celeron” branding.

Most computers are idle for a lot of the time, so falling back
to a lower clock speed when it is not busy does save power.

(Verily, it is said, “the large print giveth, and the fine print
taketh away”.)

For many purposes the Pi5 is an excellent choice - just not
everything.

I think the Raspberry Pi range can compare for value for money against anything in the x86 camp. That’s why Intel’s attempts to compete, like with Atom and NUC, were failures.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 04/10/2025 11:00, John R Walliker wrote:

On 04/10/2025 06:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 3 Oct 2025 19:36:15 +0100, John R Walliker wrote:

On 03/10/2025 09:22, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Thu, 2 Oct 2025 11:12:00 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well here a pi 500+ at £192 is well above a decent equivalent
performance refurbished desktop.

Still, the newer ARM-based machine would consume less electricity, and >>>> take up less space, than the older x86-based one.

Amazon are currently selling this:

KASEPE Mini PC 8GB DDR5 256GB M.2 SSD, Mini PC Alder Lake-Ν95 (up to
3.4GHz) Win 11 Pro 4 Cores 4 Threads, Micro PC Support 4K Triple
Displays, Mini Desktop PC-WiFi 6 Bluetooth 4.2 for £84.00

Is that this one
<https://www.amazon.co.uk/KASEPE-Mini-PC-Computer-Bluetooth/dp/B0CP7P77D5/>?

Yes.  I have one of those.

Note that, while it says up top “up to 3.4GHz”, the detailed specs
further down only show “1.7GHz”. Intel’s Alder Lake seems to be about >> four years old, and remember it’s part of the “Celeron” branding.

Most computers are idle for a lot of the time, so falling back
to a lower clock speed when it is not busy does save power.

(Verily, it is said, “the large print giveth, and the fine print
taketh away”.)

For many purposes the Pi5 is an excellent choice - just not
everything.

I think the Raspberry Pi range can compare for value for money against
anything in the x86 camp. That’s why Intel’s attempts to compete, like >> with Atom and NUC, were failures.

I think there is an issue at the core of all this as to whether, given
similar fabrication densities, a CISC computer is inherently more power
hungry than a RISC one.

I suspect that in the end they come out the same: the major power
consumption is FET state transitions per second, and if CISC has more
FETs, but they aren't being used all the time, I see no inherent reason
why more power should be drawn: At a given point the RISC that is
executing the same number of transitions per second because it is
executing 'real' code rather than microcode, ends up as essentially the
same thing.
--
"First, find out who are the people you can not criticise. They are your oppressors."
- George Orwell

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 04/10/2025 09:46, Joerg Walther wrote:

Mike Scott wrote:

It says, "Operating system DOS", in spite of the headline.

I wonder what you actually get!

Well, no Windows license, obviously. :-)

You do actually get Windows 11. You can also zero the SSD
and install a clean copy of Windows 11 direct from Microsoft
and it finds the necessary licence in the BIOS.
However, I mostly run debian or Mint on these boxes.
The cheapest ones like the one I mentioned have their
RAM soldered in place so it can't be upgraded. Also,
they sometimes come with M.2 SATA memory modules rather
than NVMe.
The slightly more expensive ones such as some from
Bosgane that have 2.5Gbit/s ethernet come with
upgradeable RAM and NVMe SSD memory.
These machines claim a maximum of 16Gbyte RAM, but I have
installed 32Gbyte without any problems.
John
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sat, 4 Oct 2025 11:15:05 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

I think there is an issue at the core of all this as to whether, given similar fabrication densities, a CISC computer is inherently more power hungry than a RISC one.

Yes, it is. That’s why you see x86 at an inherent disadvantage in low-
power situations. That’s in the real world, not based on theoretical considerations.

I suspect that in the end they come out the same: the major power
consumption is FET state transitions per second, and if CISC has more
FETs, but they aren't being used all the time, I see no inherent reason
why more power should be drawn ...

But those extra transistors are being used a lot of the time. Intel has previously talked about some kind of “RISC-like core”, so extra transistors are needed to translate from the programmer-visible CISC instruction set into these “core” instructions. And they are needed all the time, as new instructions come in.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sat, 4 Oct 2025 11:00:22 +0100, John R Walliker wrote:

Note that, while it says up top “up to 3.4GHz”, the detailed specs
further down only show “1.7GHz”. Intel’s Alder Lake seems to be
about four years old, and remember it’s part of the “Celeron”
branding.

Most computers are idle for a lot of the time, so falling back to a
lower clock speed when it is not busy does save power.

Except your cheap Celerons are not capable of the higher speed.

You can check this easily enough, by looking in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 04/10/2025 22:15, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 4 Oct 2025 11:00:22 +0100, John R Walliker wrote:

Note that, while it says up top “up to 3.4GHz”, the detailed specs
further down only show “1.7GHz”. Intel’s Alder Lake seems to be
about four years old, and remember it’s part of the “Celeron”
branding.

Most computers are idle for a lot of the time, so falling back to a
lower clock speed when it is not busy does save power.

Except your cheap Celerons are not capable of the higher speed.

You can check this easily enough, by looking in /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/.

Here you are:
john@Unifi-T9Pro:/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0$
cat cpuinfo_max_freq
3400000

john@Unifi-T9Pro:~$ cat /proc/cpuinfo
processor : 0
vendor_id : GenuineIntel
cpu family : 6
model : 190
model name : Intel(R) N95
...

So what does that tell you?

John
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On Sat, 4 Oct 2025 23:53:18 +0100, John R Walliker wrote:

On 04/10/2025 22:15, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:

You can check this easily enough, by looking in
/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/.

Here you are:
john@Unifi-T9Pro:/sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0$
cat cpuinfo_max_freq
3400000

Looks promising, but you should check scaling_cur_freq and
scaling_max_freq -- I think these show what your CPU is up to right now.
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 4 Oct 2025 at 07:06:35, Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:

On 03/10/2025 19:36, John R Walliker wrote:

Amazon are currently selling this:

KASEPE
Mini PC 8GB DDR5 256GB M.2 SSD, Mini PC Alder Lake-Ν95 (up to 3.4GHz)
Win 11 Pro 4 Cores 4 Threads, Micro PC Support 4K Triple Displays, Mini
Desktop PC-WiFi 6 Bluetooth 4.2
for £84.00

It says, "Operating system DOS", in spite of the headline.

I wonder what you actually get!

Like the price though. What's the catch?

They are refurbished, not new.

I have three refurbished Lenovo Mini PCs (M93p) from Amazon,
each cost a little over �70 and are serving me well.

--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.sys.raspberry-pi

On 05/10/2025 07:16, Bob Martin wrote:

On 4 Oct 2025 at 07:06:35, Mike Scott <usenet.16@scottsonline.org.uk.invalid> wrote:

On 03/10/2025 19:36, John R Walliker wrote:

Amazon are currently selling this:

KASEPE
Mini PC 8GB DDR5 256GB M.2 SSD, Mini PC Alder Lake-Ν95 (up to 3.4GHz)
Win 11 Pro 4 Cores 4 Threads, Micro PC Support 4K Triple Displays, Mini
Desktop PC-WiFi 6 Bluetooth 4.2
for £84.00

It says, "Operating system DOS", in spite of the headline.

I wonder what you actually get!

Like the price though. What's the catch?

They are refurbished, not new.

I have three refurbished Lenovo Mini PCs (M93p) from Amazon,
each cost a little over �70 and are serving me well.

Mine are new.
John
--- Synchronet 3.21a-Linux NewsLink 1.2