From Newsgroup: comp.misc

Most of my computing is done on my desktop PC, but I have a
laptop which is handy for occasional use, and also as a fallback
in case of failures.

My Lenovo Thinkpad T450, which I bought refurbished 5 years ago,
now has a bulging removable battery pack, which has been taken to
a safe place. Additionally, the fan is making noises, which I
hope I have addressed by cleaning. It will run on the internal
battery.

It seems that Lenovo do not support Windows 11 on this machine,
so its safe life is limited in any case. Apparently there are
ways to get round this, but each new Windows update could
introduce fresh issues.

In this context, and accepting that I want to remain in the
Windows environment, I am unsure that spending money on
replacement parts is justifiable, and am considering a new
laptop.

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not
anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11, and has appropriate capability.
However, size, weight and battery life are much less important.
Reasonable warranty is desirable.

I would welcome any pointers and recommendations.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

Plant amazing Acers.
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From Newsgroup: comp.misc

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in news:bq58uj1aej757c1feh8dk7mst37t16bdik@4ax.com:

Most of my computing is done on my desktop PC, but I have a
laptop which is handy for occasional use, and also as a fallback
in case of failures.

My Lenovo Thinkpad T450, which I bought refurbished 5 years ago,
now has a bulging removable battery pack, which has been taken to
a safe place. Additionally, the fan is making noises, which I
hope I have addressed by cleaning. It will run on the internal
battery.

It seems that Lenovo do not support Windows 11 on this machine,
so its safe life is limited in any case. Apparently there are
ways to get round this, but each new Windows update could
introduce fresh issues.

In this context, and accepting that I want to remain in the
Windows environment, I am unsure that spending money on
replacement parts is justifiable, and am considering a new
laptop.

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not
anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11, and has appropriate capability.
However, size, weight and battery life are much less important.
Reasonable warranty is desirable.

I would welcome any pointers and recommendations.

Chris

I have a pair of EliteBook laptops running W7Pro. W10Pro was available but
I preferred W7 as mor trustworthy. The second is a backup. They were
refurbs from a company that leased them and sold them. I bought from a private guy who bought the laptops and was selling them after refurbing
them. Very powerful and very cheap. Just use for email, news, and web.
No games. One did need a new fan.

W7Pro is still supported to some degree. They are reliable and are both on their 13th year of continuous use. Towers are easier to maintain forever.
If the web becomes unusable for some reason they will get linux installed.

Keep them clean and running if at all possible if they have hard drives. E-drives will run forever. Be careful of power surges and lightnign
strikes.

W10 has lots of spyware. W11 is all spyware. Just an opinion from an experienced hacker. Use ad blockers for the web. Use a web brower that
isn't from Microsoft.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not
anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11, and has appropriate capability.
However, size, weight and battery life are much less important.
Reasonable warranty is desirable.

I would welcome any pointers and recommendations.

Look for a refurbished machine by Dell, Lenovo or HP - eg Dell Latitude/Precision/XPS, Lenovo Thinkpad, HP Elitebook/Probook The machines being refurbed are often ex-office stalwarts that are well made and easily serviceable, unlike some of the more consumer-focused models (Dell
Inspiron, Lenovo Idea..., HP Pavilion). The refurbisher should give you
some warranty, although they're often easy to replace parts yourself should
it be necessary.

You can buy from refurbishers like Tier1 or buy them on ebay (filter by condition). There's also Dell Outlet or Lenovo Certified Refurbished to buy refurbs from the manufacturer.

Any machine with an 8th gen Intel processor or a Ryzen 3000 or later should support Win 11.

Theo
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From Newsgroup: comp.misc

FYI there was a typo in the uk.d-i-y in the newsgroup line of your post:

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

Most of my computing is done on my desktop PC, but I have a
laptop which is handy for occasional use, and also as a fallback
in case of failures.

My Lenovo Thinkpad T450, which I bought refurbished 5 years ago,
now has a bulging removable battery pack, which has been taken to
a safe place. Additionally, the fan is making noises, which I
hope I have addressed by cleaning. It will run on the internal
battery.

It seems that Lenovo do not support Windows 11 on this machine,
so its safe life is limited in any case. Apparently there are
ways to get round this, but each new Windows update could
introduce fresh issues.

In this context, and accepting that I want to remain in the
Windows environment, I am unsure that spending money on
replacement parts is justifiable, and am considering a new
laptop.

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not
anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11, and has appropriate capability.
However, size, weight and battery life are much less important.
Reasonable warranty is desirable.

I would welcome any pointers and recommendations.

Chris

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 26/03/2025 17:34, Theo wrote:

FYI there was a typo in the uk.d-i-y in the newsgroup line of your post:

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

Most of my computing is done on my desktop PC, but I have a
laptop which is handy for occasional use, and also as a fallback
in case of failures.

My Lenovo Thinkpad T450, which I bought refurbished 5 years ago,
now has a bulging removable battery pack, which has been taken to
a safe place. Additionally, the fan is making noises, which I
hope I have addressed by cleaning. It will run on the internal
battery.

It seems that Lenovo do not support Windows 11 on this machine,
so its safe life is limited in any case. Apparently there are
ways to get round this, but each new Windows update could
introduce fresh issues.

In this context, and accepting that I want to remain in the
Windows environment, I am unsure that spending money on
replacement parts is justifiable, and am considering a new
laptop.

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not
anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11, and has appropriate capability.
However, size, weight and battery life are much less important.
Reasonable warranty is desirable.

I would welcome any pointers and recommendations.

Chris

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops
BUT anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Try 'laptops direct'
--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 26/03/2025 19:02, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 26/03/2025 17:34, Theo wrote:

FYI there was a typo in the uk.d-i-y in the newsgroup line of your post:

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

Most of my computing is done on my desktop PC, but I have a
laptop which is handy for occasional use, and also as a fallback
in case of failures.

My Lenovo Thinkpad T450, which I bought refurbished 5 years ago,
now has a bulging removable battery pack, which has been taken to
a safe place. Additionally, the fan is making noises, which I
hope I have addressed by cleaning. It will run on the internal
battery.

It seems that Lenovo do not support Windows 11 on this machine,
so its safe life is limited in any case. Apparently there are
ways to get round this, but each new Windows update could
introduce fresh issues.

In this context, and accepting that I want to remain in the
Windows environment, I am unsure that spending money on
replacement parts is justifiable, and am considering a new
laptop.

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not
anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11, and has appropriate capability.
However, size, weight and battery life are much less important.
Reasonable warranty is desirable.

I would welcome any pointers and recommendations.

Chris

Its not Lenovo that don't support Windows/11 on that machine, it simply
does not meet the Microsoft minimum hardware requirements. The CPU is
too old I5 Gen 5 and it only has TPM 1.2. To be supported on Windows/11
you need an I5 Gen 8 CPU and TPM 2.0. Microsoft has set the bar for Windows/11. There are many PCs from every manufacturer out there that in
terms of CPU Speed and RAM would run Windows/11, but don't meet the
security requirements above.

The oldest T-Series that supports Windows/11 is the T480 with the I5 Gen
8 processor. This is also the last T-Series with the dual battery. It is missing a CD drive but I can't remember when I last used a CD and the
USB charger ports are delicate. consider a short patch lead or magnetic connector

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops
BUT anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Its supply and demand. I would say most laptops which still work will
run Windows/10 laptops, but anything pre 2018 will probably have TPM 1.2 and/or non-supported CPUs so now have a fixed "end-of-life"...

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Well yes , no one wants them....
.... you can get one for £330 with 1-year warrenty.

Try 'laptops direct'

Also Tier-1, Newandusedlaptops4u, gigaRefurb, Morgan Computers

I usually buy via e-bay these days, but Amazon has them at similar
prices. Do check the revues...

Dave
G4UGM

Dave
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Wed, 3/26/2025 1:34 PM, Theo wrote:

FYI there was a typo in the uk.d-i-y in the newsgroup line of your post:

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

Most of my computing is done on my desktop PC, but I have a
laptop which is handy for occasional use, and also as a fallback
in case of failures.

My Lenovo Thinkpad T450, which I bought refurbished 5 years ago,
now has a bulging removable battery pack, which has been taken to
a safe place. Additionally, the fan is making noises, which I
hope I have addressed by cleaning. It will run on the internal
battery.

It seems that Lenovo do not support Windows 11 on this machine,
so its safe life is limited in any case. Apparently there are
ways to get round this, but each new Windows update could
introduce fresh issues.

In this context, and accepting that I want to remain in the
Windows environment, I am unsure that spending money on
replacement parts is justifiable, and am considering a new
laptop.

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not
anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11, and has appropriate capability.
However, size, weight and battery life are much less important.
Reasonable warranty is desirable.

I would welcome any pointers and recommendations.

Chris

That's a 4th or 5th gen Intel CPU (4th gen being Haswell).
It has a TPM, but it might be the first generation one,
not the TPM 2.0 that W11 calls up.

While your computer is perfectly good as a computer, it's not
the best choice for the W11 thing. I have W11 running on
4th gen hardware right now, across the room :-) But it's
not much of a victory.

If you don't get one with an NPU on it (NPU being for Artificial Intelligence), then it could be close-to-reasonably priced. Since no significant software
runs on the NPU yet, we don't really know whether the current NPUs are
worth buying.

An RTX5090 is 1000 TOPS. The best laptop NPU at the moment,
is 50 TOPS of AI performance. The Microsoft "minimum" is 40 TOPS.
The NPU can have things like multiply-accumulate blocks, and have
ten thousand of those. Some designs apparently are arranged like
systolic arrays. The main problem with the current generation,
is the memory bandwidth holds them back. One in design right now,
may have additional memory and a "side connection" of some sort for it.
(And just for the record, that has never worked well in the past.
The ICs don't have sufficient electrical contacts for that method.)

This leaves a challenge for the customer. "Buy the compliance" and
end up with a turkey, or "buy a computer" and deal with not having
the logic block the OS company seeks to monetize. I would sooner
have a computer with a decent CPU, than worry about anything else.

As a rule of thumb, if the software for a feature is not already
shipping, it might well never be delivered. That's why you can
only "buy what is in front of you". If there is no AI today,
there might never be a compelling story later on. It's like
Full Self Driving, or Flying Cars. It works the same way
with your new laptop purchase. "Promises" are worth nothing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunar_Lake https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrow_Lake_%28microprocessor%29

AMD Strix Point https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-launches-ryzen-ai-300-and-200-series-chips-for-laptops

AMD Strix Halo (likely to be expensive) https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryzen-ai-max-300-strix-halo-apus-bring-up-to-16-zen5-cores-and-40-rdna3-5-compute-units

For consumer purposes, the single-thread peak performance, is a measure
of how "snappy" a machine feels. The OS uses scroll throttles, and graphics animations to slow down the machine, but the basic feel of these is on
the upper edge of the envelope, so their performance should show through.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html#laptop-thread

Intel Core Ultra 7 265 4,750 5.3Ghz Turbo, 2.4/1.8 Base
Intel Core Ultra 9 275HX 4,749 5.4GHz Turbo, 2.7/2.1 Base

AMD Ryzen AI 7 350 3,977 5.0GHz Turbo, 2.0 Base
AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 375 3,935 5.1GHz Turbo, 2.0 Base

When they cluster closely like that, the pairs likely have the same
peak clock (which you can check when you look them up). Some of the
laptop benchmarks, could be affected by thermal issues (whereas
desktops get monster coolers for these sorts of runs).

The multithreaded performance, is not as important (with exceptions of course). When I need to compress files with 7ZIP, the core count matters. If I'm
running Cinebench (a perfect scaling benchmark for multi-thread) or
Blender or something, these might use more of the cores. The Microsoft
Flight Sim might run on eight cores (one of the cores does pre-fetch
of graphical textures for the map). Taking ratios on the AMD ones,
suggests eight cores are contributing to the total number.

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/laptop.html

Intel Core Ultra 9 275HX 61,098 8P 16E, no hyperthread (24 threads)
Intel Core Ultra 7 265 47,945 8P 12E, no hyperthread (20 threads)

AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 35,123 4P 8E, hyperthread (24 threads)
AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX PRO 375 32,453 4P 8E, hyperthread (24 threads)

NPUs do get benchmarked, but "standard" benchmarks or favored ones,
don't seem to exist yet.

I suspect any of those four would be just fine. One pair, has more
GPU and NPU than the other. So the "balance" of the designs is
different, under the hood (that's if you were wondering why the
CPU part seemed so skimpy on one pair). But that doesn't matter when
you are editing MSWord. Which is why I did not dwell on that aspect.

You can spend hours and hours at this stuff.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/242293/intel-core-ultra-9-processor-275hx-36m-cache-up-to-5-40-ghz/specifications.html
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/241068/intel-core-ultra-7-processor-265-30m-cache-up-to-5-30-ghz/specifications.html?wapkw=265

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/laptop/ryzen/ai-300-series/amd-ryzen-ai-9-hx-370.html
https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/laptop/ryzen-pro/ai-300-series/amd-ryzen-ai-9-hx-pro-375.html

One product is using 4nm silicon, the other 3nm silicon.
That helps drive the price up (perhaps deep UV patterning).
In the room here, is 5nm silicon. The CPU in my old
Optiplex 780 is 45nm (E8400 right now). My first PC has 130nm
silicon in it right now (Tualatin), while the first CPU in
that box was 250nm. Of about 60 times the dimensions of the
silicon gates today (FINFET). A single core processor
in the year 2000 at rest, burns as much power as all the cores in
the above ones... when they are at rest.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT
anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, unsupported software?
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 26/03/2025 21:42, David Wade wrote:

Its not Lenovo that don't support Windows/11 on that machine, it simply
does not meet the Microsoft minimum hardware requirements. The CPU is
too old I5 Gen 5 and it only has TPM 1.2. To be supported on Windows/11
you need an I5 Gen 8 CPU and TPM 2.0. Microsoft has set the bar for Windows/11. There are many PCs from every manufacturer out there that in terms of CPU Speed and RAM would run Windows/11, but don't meet the
security requirements above.

Guess why I buy the cheaper ones and run Linux.
--
"Corbyn talks about equality, justice, opportunity, health care, peace, community, compassion, investment, security, housing...."
"What kind of person is not interested in those things?"

"Jeremy Corbyn?"


--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 27/03/2025 06:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT
anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, unsupported software?

I'd trust it to Linux.
Actually that's MS bullshit.
The greatest security risk from a laptop is leaving it on a train.

If its 'mission critical' it doesn't go on a laptop. Period. Or you get
sacked
This isn't Donald Trumps administration, this is real life
--
“It is not the truth of Marxism that explains the willingness of intellectuals to believe it, but the power that it confers on
intellectuals, in their attempts to control the world. And since...it is futile to reason someone out of a thing that he was not reasoned into,
we can conclude that Marxism owes its remarkable power to survive every criticism to the fact that it is not a truth-directed but a
power-directed system of thought.”
Sir Roger Scruton

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Thu, 3/27/2025 2:06 AM, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT
anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, unsupported software?

Official refurbishers are only shipping Windows 11 refurbs now.
All the entries on the first page here, are for "Windows 11 Pro".
And this has to do with the contract terms on the Refurb kit and
when the cutoff date is. And the prices here reflect the corner
the refurbisher is backed into, by the need to meet Win11 requirements.

https://ca.refurb.io

To get a Win10 refurb, you would get that off EBay.
From a private seller. It would be harder to get
a Win7 refurb.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT >>anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it allows me
to download updates and install them when convenient to me. Why this
facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
When you think there's no hope left remember the lobsters in the tank in
the Titanic's restaurant.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

--8323328-1130082417-1743068996=:14258
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT



On Thu, 27 Mar 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/03/2025 06:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT
anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

I'd trust it to Linux.
Actually that's MS bullshit.
The greatest security risk from a laptop is leaving it on a train.

If its 'mission critical' it doesn't go on a laptop. Period. Or you get sacked
This isn't Donald Trumps administration, this is real life

Also note that if you build around the constraints of crappy hardware with technologies such as backups, clusters, active/active clusters etc. they
can live very well on crappy hardware.

Of course this is just theoretical, and you collect your requirements, and SLA:s towards your customers, and then make an informed decision.

Since I have backups of my laptop, and could go to the store and buy a new
one in about 60 minutes, and do a restore of my company documents within another 60 minutes, I in theory, have no problems with running my company
on "crappy" hardware.

Due to convenience, I tend to run it on maximum 3-4 year old laptops, and
my SaaS product runs on refurbished servers in the cloud. --8323328-1130082417-1743068996=:14258--
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 27/03/2025 09:49, D wrote:

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/03/2025 06:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT
anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

I'd trust it to Linux.
Actually that's MS bullshit.
The greatest security risk from a laptop is leaving it on a train.

If its 'mission critical' it doesn't go on a laptop. Period. Or you
get sacked
This isn't Donald Trumps administration, this is real life

Also note that if you build around the constraints of crappy hardware
with technologies such as backups, clusters, active/active clusters etc. they can live very well on crappy hardware.

Of course this is just theoretical, and you collect your requirements,
and SLA:s towards your customers, and then make an informed decision.

Since I have backups of my laptop, and could go to the store and buy a
new one in about 60 minutes, and do a restore of my company documents
within another 60 minutes, I in theory, have no problems with running my company on "crappy" hardware.

Due to convenience, I tend to run it on maximum 3-4 year old laptops,
and my SaaS product runs on refurbished servers in the cloud.

You seem to be assuming that the only bad thing that might happen is the laptop loses your data, which as you identify a good backup regime will mitigate. However the bigger prise for many bad actors is persistent
access to your device and data - something that becomes "easier" on unsupported platforms, and also something, if done well, you may not
even notice.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

In comp.misc Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT >>>anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to me. Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

Because giving you some control is not the new MS way. They must push
their adware and spyware to keep their ad revenue stream up. If they
gave you the choice to opt. out, too many would opt. out, harming their recurring revenue stream.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

A great many are. Sadly, most, such as our local troll L.D., never see
the light of how they are living in a MS bullshit world.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 27/03/2025 06:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT
anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, unsupported software?

Yes, the important aspect of mission-critical business data is to keep backups, ideally with some form of versioning.

And I do mean plural of backup(s). Preferably with at least one copy in
a different location.

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

["Followup-To:" header set to uk.d-i-y.]
On 2025-03-27, Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT >>>anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to me. Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

Yes and no. As an IT Manager I described myself as custodian of the
corporate paranoia. One of the options I had was to check that any machine connected had the right OS and had all of the patches I considered
essential. If I had been managing financial or other critical data the
patches might have been added to the critical list within a few days of release.

It takes about three days for miscreants to download a patch and reverse-engineer an exploit. So exploits by skript-kiddies are most likely three days after a patch. They get progressively less likely after that.
--
Bernard Peek
bap@shrdlu.com
Wigan
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Wed, 3/26/2025 7:41 PM, Paul wrote:

On Wed, 3/26/2025 1:34 PM, Theo wrote:

FYI there was a typo in the uk.d-i-y in the newsgroup line of your post:

Chris J Dixon <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

Most of my computing is done on my desktop PC, but I have a
laptop which is handy for occasional use, and also as a fallback
in case of failures.

My Lenovo Thinkpad T450, which I bought refurbished 5 years ago,
now has a bulging removable battery pack, which has been taken to
a safe place. Additionally, the fan is making noises, which I
hope I have addressed by cleaning. It will run on the internal
battery.

It seems that Lenovo do not support Windows 11 on this machine,
so its safe life is limited in any case. Apparently there are
ways to get round this, but each new Windows update could
introduce fresh issues.

In this context, and accepting that I want to remain in the
Windows environment, I am unsure that spending money on
replacement parts is justifiable, and am considering a new
laptop.

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not
anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11, and has appropriate capability.
However, size, weight and battery life are much less important.
Reasonable warranty is desirable.

I would welcome any pointers and recommendations.

Chris

intel-core-ultra-9-processor-275hx
intel-core-ultra-7-processor-265

ai-300-series/amd-ryzen-ai-9-hx-370
ai-300-series/amd-ryzen-ai-9-hx-pro-375

I took a look at my local computer store inventory, to see what
selling tricks to look out for. While the 7th and 8th gen are
"new old stock", they're not particularly good Windows 11 choices.
Intel processors went up to 14th gen, before ditching the "gen" label.

There were still 7th and 8th gen laptops, for about $500 They ranged up to about 13th gen processors, getting up to $1000 Finally, I was seeing mention of the NPU equipped W11 material... for $1700

The staff at your computer store, might tell you about the
caveats of the $500 items (not real W11 material, just older
W10 stock). I'm sure the stock that is in-range (plus or minus
the NPU) will be labeled as W11 materials. Leaving the
more expensive kit to speak for itself.

There is not going to be much visible hardware inside
the $1700 one, because the graphics are done by an iGPU
tile inside the CPU. That price does not include an
NVidia gaming graphics GPU (an actual gamer laptop).

There has even been a laptop where the RAM is fixed and is loaded
inside the CPU package as well. Might be 16GB of stacked RAM die inside
the CPU. This makes for some amount of air space underneath
the keyboard. Since these are now slightly older stock, there is
a price drop from the airy level.

(Example of highly integrated laptop with "fixed" RAM quantity)

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-demos-meteor-lake-cpu-with-on-package-lpddr5x

https://www.lenovo.com/ca/en/p/laptops/ideapad/ideapad-500/ideapad-slim-5i-gen-9-16-inch-intel/83fw0005us

Paul

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This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT



On Thu, 27 Mar 2025, John Rumm wrote:

On 27/03/2025 09:49, D wrote:

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 27/03/2025 06:06, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT >>>>> anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

I'd trust it to Linux.
Actually that's MS bullshit.
The greatest security risk from a laptop is leaving it on a train.

If its 'mission critical' it doesn't go on a laptop. Period. Or you get >>> sacked
This isn't Donald Trumps administration, this is real life

Also note that if you build around the constraints of crappy hardware with >> technologies such as backups, clusters, active/active clusters etc. they
can live very well on crappy hardware.

Of course this is just theoretical, and you collect your requirements, and >> SLA:s towards your customers, and then make an informed decision.

Since I have backups of my laptop, and could go to the store and buy a new >> one in about 60 minutes, and do a restore of my company documents within
another 60 minutes, I in theory, have no problems with running my company >> on "crappy" hardware.

Due to convenience, I tend to run it on maximum 3-4 year old laptops, and >> my SaaS product runs on refurbished servers in the cloud.

You seem to be assuming that the only bad thing that might happen is the laptop loses your data, which as you identify a good backup regime will mitigate. However the bigger prise for many bad actors is persistent access to your device and data - something that becomes "easier" on unsupported platforms, and also something, if done well, you may not even notice.

That would be a software problem. I can run modern software on crappy hardware. Yet another benefit. And no, I'm not in the cloak and dagger business, so the threats I face are very, very mild.

I do have acquaintances in the cloak and dagger business though, and they
are all about avoiding as much as possible, tracking supply chains, buying
hw without mics and video etc.
--8323328-1081642528-1743109065=:14258--
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 27 Mar 2025 08:28:42 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it allows
me to download updates and install them when convenient to me. Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.

What was that about being “suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit” ... ?
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Thu, 27 Mar 2025 14:40:22 -0400, Paul wrote:

There has even been a laptop where the RAM is fixed and is loaded inside
the CPU package as well.

Ill-fated attempt to copy Apple ... thankfully short-lived.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs4s91$1g5go$4@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 27 Mar 2025 08:28:42 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>>unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it allows
me to download updates and install them when convenient to me. Why this >>facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.

What was that about being “suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit” ... ?

You said "Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to
obsolete,

unsupported software?"

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
The fact that there's a highway to hell and only a stairway to heaven says
a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 27/03/2025 08:28, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT
anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it allows
me to download updates and install them when convenient to me. Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

You do have some level of control on pro versions, and full control on enterprise ones.

The sad reality is that the majority of hacks on systems exploit holes
that have already been fixed for some time, but for whatever reason the patches have not been applied.

Professional IT admins in business *aught* to know better, but I expect
that many home users see the interruptions to their use of a system and
the potential complications from unexpected changes in UI, performance, functionality, and workflow etc that come with patches and updates are a
PITA and things to be avoided and whinged about.

So MS have decided the only way they can improve this situation for home users, is to take control of the patching process. Based on the number
of people I have met that proudly boast that they have "never installed
any updates, and my system still works just fine", they are probably right!

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

Says the man running an OS that has not had any security patches since
January 10, 2023. :-)

Remember that there are substantial amounts of shared code in successive versions of windows (or any OS for that matter), so each time that MS or another vendor issue a patch for a critical vulnerability in a current
version of your OS or app, those patches by their very nature will
identify what was changed, and usually give strong clues what the actual vulnerability was. Armed with that information, you can then work out if
the same vulnerability exists in older unsupported versions, and how it
can be exploited.

Generally not "easy" problems to deal with.

Having said that, at least it can be done for actively supported
consumer OSs. In the IoT and embedded systems market however, the whole
system is a cluster fsck! How often do people update the firmware in
their routers, CCTV systems, phone systems etc? How often do they rip
out and replace hardware that is still working because it is no longer supported? How much electronic tat has never been supported, for which
there is no obvious update mechanism, and was riddled with bugs from day
one? There are loads of them that are now in bot nets and happily up to mischief at their masters behest!
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28 Mar 2025 08:36:24 GMT
"Jeff Gaines" <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
[]

--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
The fact that there's a highway to hell and only a stairway to heaven says
a lot about anticipated traffic numbers.

Like
--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs5oru$2bpoa$1@dont-email.me> John Rumm wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>>unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it allows >>me to download updates and install them when convenient to me. Why this >>facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

You do have some level of control on pro versions, and full control on >enterprise ones.

I treat my computer as a tool so compare it with, say, a room I am
decorating. At the end of the work day the brushes get cleaned or put in
soak, the lids go back on the various containers and that's it.

My main desktop is the same. Currently I have 5 documents open in
UltraEdit, 4 instances of Visual Studio running, my own notepad app and my
own programming toolbox all running. When I call it a day I turn the
screen off. Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and reboots. Most things will be saved, I have learnt my lesson from MSFT, but there is no
way in the world I will remember everything I had open.

I did consider Enterprise so I had control but the cost is prohibitive. I
do have my "JGRunningProcesses" app running. It write a log every 30
minutes of everything that is running and doesn't auto start after
shutdown. That means I can go through the last log if MSFT has done the
dirty and set my workspace up again.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

Says the man running an OS that has not had any security patches since >January 10, 2023. :-)

It still gets some sort of updates which it installs when I tell it to. As long as apps I wrote for Win98 continue to run I can be pretty sure the Windows code base hasn't change much!

Don't forget Windows for warships is actually Windows 3.1 :-)
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his friends for his
life.
(Jeremy Thorpe, 1962)
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From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and reboots

Or you could, you know, set a group policy so that updates and reboots
are 99% in your control. And just like that, these forced reboots are a
thing of the past.

Sure you eventually have to install updates and reboots but *YOU* get to
chose when.

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From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs64s0$2mjh4$1@dont-email.me> mm0fmf wrote:

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and reboots

Or you could, you know, set a group policy so that updates and reboots are >99% in your control. And just like that, these forced reboots are a thing
of the past.

Sure you eventually have to install updates and reboots but YOU get to
chose when.

Not seen that touted as a possible solution, do you have a link to an
example please?
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There's 2 typos of peoples in this world.
Those who always notice spelling & grammatical errors, & them who doesn't.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 13:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs64s0$2mjh4$1@dont-email.me> mm0fmf wrote:

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and reboots

Or you could, you know, set a group policy so that updates and reboots
are 99% in your control. And just like that, these forced reboots are
a thing of the past.

Sure you eventually have to install updates and reboots but YOU get to
chose when.

Not seen that touted as a possible solution, do you have a link to an example please?

I have Win10 Pro and set the following Group Policies

Title: Notify to download updates
Source: Administrator
Type: Group Policy

Title: Set Automatic Update Options
Source: Administrator
Type: Group Policy


This means I get notifications that there updates to download but they
are not automatically downloaded. If the update is deemed "important" by
MS and you leave it "long enough" then eventually it will be
automatically downloaded and applied and maybe the PC rebooted.

MS decide what "important" and "long enough" are. But since switching to
W10 Pro on this PC in 2018/9 and applying these policies a few weeks
later, I have never had a forced download and installation of any updates.

I did the changes through the Group Policy Editor. Can't remember now
just what you do but Google Group Policy Editor and those titles and you should see how to make the changes.




--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

Lawrence D'Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> wrote:

On Wed, 26 Mar 2025 19:02:39 +0000, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

Well I have had pretty good results for MY needs with HP laptops BUT
anything to run Windows 11 seems very expensive. Like £400

Whereas a Windows ten capable refurbished is under £100

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >unsupported software?

As opposed to brand new unsupported but known-broken software like
Windows 11?
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
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From Newsgroup: comp.misc

John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:

You seem to be assuming that the only bad thing that might happen is the >laptop loses your data, which as you identify a good backup regime will >mitigate. However the bigger prise for many bad actors is persistent
access to your device and data - something that becomes "easier" on >unsupported platforms, and also something, if done well, you may not
even notice.

Bad actors like Microsoft? I am more worried about Microsoft telemetry
which I know is collecting my data for abuse, than I am worried about hacker-provided malware, which has only a possibility of collecting my
data for abuse.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

In comp.misc Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs4s91$1g5go$4@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 27 Mar 2025 08:28:42 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence >>>D'Oliveiro wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>>>unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it allows >>>me to download updates and install them when convenient to me. Why this >>>facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.

What was that about being “suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit” ... ?

You said "Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,

unsupported software?"

And you've been trolled by L.D.

This sort of thing happens all the time from that nick. Killfiling it
is generally the best path forward.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28 Mar 2025 08:36:24 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs4s91$1g5go$4@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 27 Mar 2025 08:28:42 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it
allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to
me. Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.

What was that about being “suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit” ... ?

You said "Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to
obsolete, unsupported software?"

Yes I did. And?
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 13:19, mm0fmf wrote:

On 28/03/2025 13:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs64s0$2mjh4$1@dont-email.me> mm0fmf wrote:

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and reboots

Or you could, you know, set a group policy so that updates and
reboots are 99% in your control. And just like that, these forced
reboots are a thing of the past.

Sure you eventually have to install updates and reboots but YOU get
to chose when.

Not seen that touted as a possible solution, do you have a link to an
example please?

I have Win10 Pro and set the following Group Policies

Title: Notify to download updates
Source: Administrator
Type: Group Policy

Title: Set Automatic Update Options
Source: Administrator
Type: Group Policy

This means I get notifications that there updates to download but they
are not automatically downloaded. If the update is deemed "important" by
MS and you leave it "long enough" then eventually it will be
automatically downloaded and applied and maybe the PC rebooted.

MS decide what "important" and "long enough" are. But since switching to
W10 Pro on this PC in 2018/9 and applying these policies a few weeks
later, I have never had a forced download and installation of any updates.

I did the changes through the Group Policy Editor. Can't remember now
just what you do but Google Group Policy Editor and those titles and you should see how to make the changes.

One complication to note is that the group policy editor is not
installed on windows home. So you either have to find a clandestine way
to install it, or tweak the corresponding registry settings that are
normally the final effect of using gpedit.msc

(or failing that just upgrade to pro)
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 15:05, Scott Dorsey wrote:

John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:

You seem to be assuming that the only bad thing that might happen is the
laptop loses your data, which as you identify a good backup regime will
mitigate. However the bigger prise for many bad actors is persistent
access to your device and data - something that becomes "easier" on
unsupported platforms, and also something, if done well, you may not
even notice.

Bad actors like Microsoft? I am more worried about Microsoft telemetry
which I know is collecting my data for abuse, than I am worried about hacker-provided malware, which has only a possibility of collecting my
data for abuse.

You have not thought this through...
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs71dj$3gfnr$6@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 28 Mar 2025 08:36:24 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs4s91$1g5go$4@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 27 Mar 2025 08:28:42 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence >>>>D'Oliveiro wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>>>>unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it
allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to
me. Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.

What was that about being “suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit” ... ?

You said "Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to >>obsolete, unsupported software?"

Yes I did. And?

You have been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF
if you can read this, you're a nerd 10.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28 Mar 2025 22:05:31 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs71dj$3gfnr$6@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 28 Mar 2025 08:36:24 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs4s91$1g5go$4@dont-email.me> Lawrence >>>D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 27 Mar 2025 08:28:42 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence >>>>>D'Oliveiro wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>>>>>unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it >>>>>allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to me. >>>>>Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.

What was that about being “suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit” ... ? >>>

You said "Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to >>>obsolete, unsupported software?"

Yes I did. And?

You have been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit.

But I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 09:07:08 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

The sad reality is that the majority of hacks on systems exploit holes
that have already been fixed for some time, but for whatever reason the patches have not been applied.

Professional IT admins in business *aught* to know better, but I expect
that many home users see the interruptions to their use of a system and
the potential complications from unexpected changes in UI, performance, functionality, and workflow etc that come with patches and updates are a
PITA and things to be avoided and whinged about.

Also there is the fact that Microsoft is somewhat notorious for producing patches that add their own problems to the mix. So you can’t blame the
users for being just a little bit wary.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 21:15:31 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

(or failing that just upgrade to pro)

Answer to common Windows problem: give Microsoft more money.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Fri, 3/28/2025 5:15 PM, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/03/2025 13:19, mm0fmf wrote:

On 28/03/2025 13:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs64s0$2mjh4$1@dont-email.me> mm0fmf wrote:

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and reboots

Or you could, you know, set a group policy so that updates and reboots are 99% in your control. And just like that, these forced reboots are a thing of the past.

Sure you eventually have to install updates and reboots but YOU get to chose when.

Not seen that touted as a possible solution, do you have a link to an example please?

I have Win10 Pro and set the following Group Policies

Title: Notify to download updates
Source: Administrator
Type: Group Policy

Title: Set Automatic Update Options
Source: Administrator
Type: Group Policy


This means I get notifications that there updates to download but they are not automatically downloaded. If the update is deemed "important" by MS and you leave it "long enough" then eventually it will be automatically downloaded and applied and maybe the PC rebooted.

MS decide what "important" and "long enough" are. But since switching to W10 Pro on this PC in 2018/9 and applying these policies a few weeks later, I have never had a forced download and installation of any updates.

I did the changes through the Group Policy Editor. Can't remember now just what you do but Google Group Policy Editor and those titles and you should see how to make the changes.

One complication to note is that the group policy editor is not installed on windows home. So you either have to find a clandestine way to install it, or tweak the corresponding registry settings that are normally the final effect of using gpedit.msc

(or failing that just upgrade to pro)

There is more than one way to stop Windows Update,
and they don't all use GPEDIT.

One of the people in the Windows group, has a third party
utility he uses, that stops Windows Update entirely.
That's just to show the span of capability. I don't
recommend doing that particularly. But it may come
to that one day.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 26/03/2025 17:34, Theo wrote:

and am considering a new
laptop.

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not
anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11,

HP have one for £179, got one for my Daughter yesterday. <https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/product.aspx?id=a20jgea&opt=abu&sel=ntb>
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs7cti$3rjgm$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 28 Mar 2025 22:05:31 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs71dj$3gfnr$6@dont-email.me> Lawrence
D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 28 Mar 2025 08:36:24 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs4s91$1g5go$4@dont-email.me> Lawrence >>>>D'Oliveiro wrote:

On 27 Mar 2025 08:28:42 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 27/03/2025 in message <vs2ptj$3jchh$2@dont-email.me> Lawrence >>>>>>D'Oliveiro wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>>>>>>unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it >>>>>>allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to me. >>>>>>Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.

What was that about being “suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit” ... >>>>>?

You said "Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to >>>>obsolete, unsupported software?"

Yes I did. And?

You have been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit.

But I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.

You don't have to to fall for their marketing BS.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Captcha is thinking of stopping the use of pictures with traffic lights as cyclists don't know what they are.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

Alan Lee wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not

anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11,

HP have one for £179 <https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/product.aspx?id=a20jgea&opt=abu&sel=ntb>

4GB RAM? 16GB or 8GB at a bare minimum

128GB SSD? 512GB of you don't want to be forever fussing about free
space for updates

your eyes might not thank you for 1366x768 screen

I've found Celerons disappointing several times, maybe quad core
1.1GHz/2.6GHz ain't so bad?
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

In uk.d-i-y Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Alan Lee wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not

anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11,

HP have one for £179 <https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/product.aspx?id=a20jgea&opt=abu&sel=ntb>

Urgh, that's junk spec:

4GB RAM? 16GB or 8GB at a bare minimum

128GB SSD? 512GB of you don't want to be forever fussing about free
space for updates

your eyes might not thank you for 1366x768 screen

I've found Celerons disappointing several times, maybe quad core 1.1GHz/2.6GHz ain't so bad?

The N4120 is from 2019, so it's 6 years old at this point. Three years ago
I bought a refurb 2018 Dell Vostro on ebay for £100. 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Win11. It had an i5-8250U which is twice as quick as that HP:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/3651vs3042/Intel-Celeron-N4120-vs-Intel-i5-8250U

Just avoid any Pentium/Celeron/N-series machines and buy business refurb, they're much better.

Theo
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From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 09:02, Theo wrote:

Just avoid any Pentium/Celeron/N-series machines and buy business refurb, they're much better.

This!

Not only barely sufficient RAM for Win11 on that HP but it's a Window S machine.

Nasty.



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From Newsgroup: comp.misc

mm0fmf wrote:

it's a Window S machine

That is simply undone.

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 23:57, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Fri, 28 Mar 2025 21:15:31 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

(or failing that just upgrade to pro)

Answer to common Windows problem: give Microsoft more money.

I left it as an exercise for the reader to decide if/how they pay for it.

However keep in mind that paying for software from commercial vendors
like MS also pays for large swathes of the "free" software you might
otherwise choose, since many of those developers can only afford to
donate time to open source projects only because they have income from a "money grabbing" software vendor.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 09:02, Theo wrote:

In uk.d-i-y Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Alan Lee wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not

anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11,

HP have one for £179
<https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/product.aspx?id=a20jgea&opt=abu&sel=ntb>

Urgh, that's junk spec:

4GB RAM? 16GB or 8GB at a bare minimum

128GB SSD? 512GB of you don't want to be forever fussing about free
space for updates

your eyes might not thank you for 1366x768 screen

I've found Celerons disappointing several times, maybe quad core
1.1GHz/2.6GHz ain't so bad?

The N4120 is from 2019, so it's 6 years old at this point. Three years ago
I bought a refurb 2018 Dell Vostro on ebay for £100. 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, Win11. It had an i5-8250U which is twice as quick as that HP:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/3651vs3042/Intel-Celeron-N4120-vs-Intel-i5-8250U

Just avoid any Pentium/Celeron/N-series machines and buy business refurb, they're much better.

Theo

I bought this...... 16 GB ram, 256 GB NVME, 2 x Display port and 4 core processor and Win 11 pre-installed, ready to go.

I didnit think it was bad for the money, obviously I had to add my own
mouse, KB and monitor and this is running my monitor at 8k :-)
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 14:14, SH wrote:

On 29/03/2025 09:02, Theo wrote:

In uk.d-i-y Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Alan Lee wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not

anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11,

HP have one for £179
<https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/product.aspx?id=a20jgea&opt=abu&sel=ntb>

Urgh, that's junk spec:

4GB RAM? 16GB or 8GB at a bare minimum

128GB SSD?  512GB of you don't want to be forever fussing about free
space for updates

your eyes might not thank you for 1366x768 screen

I've found Celerons disappointing several times, maybe quad core
1.1GHz/2.6GHz ain't so bad?

The N4120 is from 2019, so it's 6 years old at this point.  Three
years ago
I bought a refurb 2018 Dell Vostro on ebay for £100.  8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, >> Win11. It had an i5-8250U which is twice as quick as that HP:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/3651vs3042/Intel-Celeron-N4120-
vs-Intel-i5-8250U

Just avoid any Pentium/Celeron/N-series machines and buy business refurb,
they're much better.

Theo

I bought this...... 16 GB ram, 256 GB NVME, 2 x Display port and 4 core processor and Win 11 pre-installed, ready to go.

I didnit think it was bad for the money, obviously I had to add my own mouse, KB and monitor and this is running my monitor at 8k :-)

Doh! Forgot the linky!

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 14:16, SH wrote:

On 29/03/2025 14:14, SH wrote:

On 29/03/2025 09:02, Theo wrote:

In uk.d-i-y Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:

Alan Lee wrote:

Chris J Dixon wrote:

My use is mainly MS office applications, no gaming, and I do not

anticipate removing it from the home. Therefore I want something
which is OK with Windows 11,

HP have one for £179
<https://www.hp.com/gb-en/shop/product.aspx?
id=a20jgea&opt=abu&sel=ntb>

Urgh, that's junk spec:

4GB RAM? 16GB or 8GB at a bare minimum

128GB SSD?  512GB of you don't want to be forever fussing about free
space for updates

your eyes might not thank you for 1366x768 screen

I've found Celerons disappointing several times, maybe quad core
1.1GHz/2.6GHz ain't so bad?

The N4120 is from 2019, so it's 6 years old at this point.  Three
years ago
I bought a refurb 2018 Dell Vostro on ebay for £100.  8GB RAM, 128GB
SSD,
Win11. It had an i5-8250U which is twice as quick as that HP:

https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/3651vs3042/Intel-Celeron-N4120-
vs-Intel-i5-8250U

Just avoid any Pentium/Celeron/N-series machines and buy business
refurb,
they're much better.

Theo

I bought this...... 16 GB ram, 256 GB NVME, 2 x Display port and 4
core processor and Win 11 pre-installed, ready to go.

I didnit think it was bad for the money, obviously I had to add my own
mouse, KB and monitor and this is running my monitor at 8k :-)

Doh! Forgot the linky!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356435951340
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 14:21, SH wrote:

On 29/03/2025 14:16, SH wrote:

I bought this...... 16 GB ram, 256 GB NVME, 2 x Display port and 4
core processor and Win 11 pre-installed, ready to go.

I didnit think it was bad for the money, obviously I had to add my
own mouse, KB and monitor and this is running my monitor at 8k :-)

Doh! Forgot the linky!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356435951340

Nice, but no laptop is it?
--
Future generations will wonder in bemused amazement that the early twenty-first century’s developed world went into hysterical panic over a globally average temperature increase of a few tenths of a degree, and,
on the basis of gross exaggerations of highly uncertain computer
projections combined into implausible chains of inference, proceeded to contemplate a rollback of the industrial age.

Richard Lindzen

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 15:11, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 29/03/2025 14:21, SH wrote:

On 29/03/2025 14:16, SH wrote:

I bought this...... 16 GB ram, 256 GB NVME, 2 x Display port and 4
core processor and Win 11 pre-installed, ready to go.

I didnit think it was bad for the money, obviously I had to add my
own mouse, KB and monitor and this is running my monitor at 8k :-)

Doh! Forgot the linky!

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356435951340

Nice, but no laptop is it?

It is made from laptop components, just in a tiny wee desktop case. I
have an older i5 version Dell desktop in an USFF case doing sterling
service running Debian. Small and quiet. And cheap.

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

mm0fmf wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356435951340

Nice, but no laptop is it?

It is made from laptop components, just in a tiny wee desktop case. I
have an older i5 version Dell desktop in an USFF case doing sterling
service running Debian. Small and quiet. And cheap.

And the O/P doesn't want to leave the house with it ...



--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 15:49, Andy Burns wrote:

mm0fmf wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356435951340

Nice, but no laptop is it?

It is made from laptop components, just in a tiny wee desktop case. I
have an older i5 version Dell desktop in an USFF case doing sterling
service running Debian. Small and quiet. And cheap.

And the O/P doesn't want to leave the house with it ...

My laptop is a laptop because I am an elderly person who watches you
tube shit in bed

It rarely leaves the house, either
--
New Socialism consists essentially in being seen to have your heart in
the right place whilst your head is in the clouds and your hand is in
someone else's pocket.


--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 19:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 29/03/2025 15:49, Andy Burns wrote:

mm0fmf wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356435951340

Nice, but no laptop is it?

It is made from laptop components, just in a tiny wee desktop case. I
have an older i5 version Dell desktop in an USFF case doing sterling
service running Debian. Small and quiet. And cheap.

And the O/P doesn't want to leave the house with it ...

My laptop is a laptop because I am  an elderly person who watches you
tube shit in bed

It rarely leaves the house, either

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad doesn't
need to leave the house either!
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed
and the iPad doesn't need to leave the house either!

I wouldn't want to watch him tube shit in bed (whatever that may be).
Is it some kind of Internet Influencer thing?
--
\|/
(((�))) - Mr �n!on

When we shake the ketchup bottle
At first none comes and then a lot'll.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29 Mar 2025 08:25:55 GMT, Jeff Gaines wrote:

But I don’t use Microsoft OSes at all.

You don't have to to fall for their marketing BS.

You are the one giving them money, I’m not.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 14:01:40 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

However keep in mind that paying for software from commercial vendors
like MS also pays for large swathes of the "free" software you might otherwise choose, since many of those developers can only afford to
donate time to open source projects only because they have income from a "money grabbing" software vendor.

If only that were true. Most of those money-grabbing businesses are too willing to take and not give back.

Then we have those users who complain about Free software not being as
good as the proprietary stuff. If they would divert some of the money they give to the proprietary vendors and give it to the Free software
developers, think how much better those products could be.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 30/03/2025 07:19, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 14:01:40 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

However keep in mind that paying for software from commercial vendors
like MS also pays for large swathes of the "free" software you might
otherwise choose, since many of those developers can only afford to
donate time to open source projects only because they have income from a
"money grabbing" software vendor.

If only that were true. Most of those money-grabbing businesses are too willing to take and not give back.

Then we have those users who complain about Free software not being as
good as the proprietary stuff. If they would divert some of the money they give to the proprietary vendors and give it to the Free software
developers, think how much better those products could be.

Why don't you apply that argument to car manufacturers? They make a
number of variations of the same car.

I have always been grateful for free software.

It's backward thinking & greedy to expect the best of everything for
free just because it's available.
--
Regards
wasbit
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From Newsgroup: comp.misc

=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Mr_=D6n!on?= <snipeco.1@gmail.com> wrote:

I wouldn't want to watch him tube shit in bed (whatever that may be).
Is it some kind of Internet Influencer thing?

I've seen Youtube shit the bed many times, often with elaborate javascript error strings.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 30/03/2025 07:19, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 14:01:40 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

However keep in mind that paying for software from commercial vendors
like MS also pays for large swathes of the "free" software you might
otherwise choose, since many of those developers can only afford to
donate time to open source projects only because they have income from a
"money grabbing" software vendor.

If only that were true. Most of those money-grabbing businesses are too willing to take and not give back.

Hmmm, let's see if that lives up to scrutiny...

You might note that the linux kernel has sizeable and frequent
contributions from IBM, Google, MS, Red Hat, Oracle. Plus loads of CPU optimisation from AMD and Intel. I don't recall needing to pay for all
the work on linux for WSL either.

Kubernates - originally developed by Google, now with contributions for
MS, VMWare, Amazon and IBM.

Chromium, initially developed by Google with substantial additional work
by MS, Opera, Samsung

React - faceache (Meta), MS, Shopify

VS Code - MS, Read Hat, Google.

Apache Spark - Originally UC Berkeley, now MS, Amazon

LLVM - Apple, Google, Intel, AMD

Android yada yada, the list goes on.

Note that the above include substantial contributions from developers
being paid by their employers to make contribution to free software
products - not just "spare time" hobby contributions from their developers.

Then we have those users who complain about Free software not being as
good as the proprietary stuff.

That would probably be because in some cases it is not as good. Often
when you need software for a new task, you need it now and can't wait
the potential years for the free version to get good enough.

If they would divert some of the money they
give to the proprietary vendors and give it to the Free software
developers, think how much better those products could be.

Yup, loads of stuff could be better if someone were willing to pay for it.
--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:

You might note that the linux kernel has sizeable and frequent
contributions from IBM, Google, MS, Red Hat, Oracle. Plus loads of CPU >optimisation from AMD and Intel. I don't recall needing to pay for all
the work on linux for WSL either.

This is true. However, as a minimalist, I wish they'd stop it with
adding all of this stuff.
--scott
--
"C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 21:28, SH wrote:

On 29/03/2025 19:51, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 29/03/2025 15:49, Andy Burns wrote:

mm0fmf wrote:

The Natural Philosopher wrote:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/356435951340

Nice, but no laptop is it?

It is made from laptop components, just in a tiny wee desktop case.
I have an older i5 version Dell desktop in an USFF case doing
sterling service running Debian. Small and quiet. And cheap.

And the O/P doesn't want to leave the house with it ...

My laptop is a laptop because I am  an elderly person who watches you
tube shit in bed

It rarely leaves the house, either

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad doesn't need to leave the house either!

Its Apple.
It doesn't have a mouse
It doesn't have a keyboard
It doesn't understand many video protocols
Its shit
--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 29/03/2025 21:41, Mr Ön!on wrote:

SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed
and the iPad doesn't need to leave the house either!

I wouldn't want to watch him tube shit in bed (whatever that may be).
Is it some kind of Internet Influencer thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bNTQJhS7zw
--
"In our post-modern world, climate science is not powerful because it is
true: it is true because it is powerful."

Lucas Bergkamp

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 30/03/2025 18:01, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 29/03/2025 21:41, Mr Ön!on wrote:

SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed
and the iPad doesn't need to leave the house either!

I wouldn't want to watch him tube shit in bed (whatever that may be).
Is it some kind of Internet Influencer thing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bNTQJhS7zw

I wonder why you label it "shit". There is the world and his wife in
there. From:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zpDF3Py7r8

perhaps to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1gI4jmjQjs&t=198s

or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4gzAwyK8GU

Totally fun...

Dave
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad doesn't
need to leave the house either!

Its Apple.
It doesn't have a mouse
It doesn't have a keyboard
It doesn't understand many video protocols
Its shit

Again you have shown yourself to be a wise man! I completely agree! I won an iPad once at a company event. After trying to use it for one month I came to the
conclusion that I could do everything it could do with my computer, and my computer could do more and had longer battery life, and was generally more useful. So why should I carry two things?

I sold it for about 200 EUR or so.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 31/03/2025 21:16, D wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad
doesn't need to leave the house either!

Its Apple.
It doesn't have a mouse
It doesn't have a keyboard
It doesn't understand many video protocols
Its shit

Again you have shown yourself to be a wise man! I completely agree! I
won an
iPad once at a company event. After trying to use it for one month I
came to the
conclusion that I could do everything it could do with my computer, and my computer could do more and had longer battery life, and was generally more useful. So why should I carry two things?

I sold it for about 200 EUR or so.

Very wise. My sister has one. It cant to vorbis/Vp8,
She chats on whats app and watches apple TV.
--
"And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch".

Gospel of St. Mathew 15:14


--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

In comp.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad doesn't >>> need to leave the house either!

Its Apple.
It doesn't have a mouse
It doesn't have a keyboard
It doesn't understand many video protocols
Its shit

Again you have shown yourself to be a wise man! I completely agree! I won an iPad once at a company event. After trying to use it for one month I came to the
conclusion that I could do everything it could do with my computer, and my computer could do more and had longer battery life, and was generally more useful. So why should I carry two things?

I sold it for about 200 EUR or so.

The ipad is intended for "content consumers" and preferably for those
who are "just fine" with remaining within Daddy Jobs' "walled garden".

So long as you stay within the protected boundary Apple has set out for
you, it will appear to do everything you want it to do. But you musn't
stray from the path Daddy Jobs has decreed for you to remain upon.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 01/04/2025 04:44, Rich wrote:

In comp.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad doesn't >>>> need to leave the house either!

Its Apple.
It doesn't have a mouse
It doesn't have a keyboard
It doesn't understand many video protocols
Its shit

Again you have shown yourself to be a wise man! I completely agree! I won an >> iPad once at a company event. After trying to use it for one month I came to the
conclusion that I could do everything it could do with my computer, and my >> computer could do more and had longer battery life, and was generally more >> useful. So why should I carry two things?

I sold it for about 200 EUR or so.

The ipad is intended for "content consumers" and preferably for those
who are "just fine" with remaining within Daddy Jobs' "walled garden".

So long as you stay within the protected boundary Apple has set out for
you, it will appear to do everything you want it to do. But you musn't
stray from the path Daddy Jobs has decreed for you to remain upon.

But to be fair, my wife has an iPad and has never had an issue with
watching YouTube videos...
... are there YouTTube videos you can't watch on an iPad?

Dave
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 01/04/2025 09:08, David Wade wrote:

On 01/04/2025 04:44, Rich wrote:

In comp.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad
doesn't
need to leave the house either!

Its Apple.
It doesn't have a mouse
It doesn't have a keyboard
It doesn't understand many video protocols
Its shit

Again you have shown yourself to be a wise man! I completely agree! I
won an
iPad once at a company event. After trying to use it for one month I
came to the
conclusion that I could do everything it could do with my computer,
and my
computer could do more and had longer battery life, and was generally
more
useful. So why should I carry two things?

I sold it for about 200 EUR or so.

The ipad is intended for "content consumers" and preferably for those
who are "just fine" with remaining within Daddy Jobs' "walled garden".

So long as you stay within the protected boundary Apple has set out for
you, it will appear to do everything you want it to do.  But you musn't
stray from the path Daddy Jobs has decreed for you to remain upon.

But to be fair, my wife has an iPad and has never had an issue with
watching YouTube videos...
... are there YouTTube videos you can't watch on an iPad?

Dave

There are more videos than you tube
--
The higher up the mountainside
The greener grows the grass.
The higher up the monkey climbs
The more he shows his arse.

Traditional

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Tue, 4/1/2025 4:08 AM, David Wade wrote:

On 01/04/2025 04:44, Rich wrote:

In comp.misc D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad doesn't >>>>> need to leave the house either!

Its Apple.
It doesn't have a mouse
It doesn't have a keyboard
It doesn't understand many video protocols
Its shit

Again you have shown yourself to be a wise man! I completely agree! I won an
iPad once at a company event. After trying to use it for one month I came to the
conclusion that I could do everything it could do with my computer, and my >>> computer could do more and had longer battery life, and was generally more >>> useful. So why should I carry two things?

I sold it for about 200 EUR or so.

The ipad is intended for "content consumers" and preferably for those
who are "just fine" with remaining within Daddy Jobs' "walled garden".

So long as you stay within the protected boundary Apple has set out for
you, it will appear to do everything you want it to do.  But you musn't
stray from the path Daddy Jobs has decreed for you to remain upon.

But to be fair, my wife has an iPad and has never had an issue with watching YouTube videos...
... are there YouTTube videos you can't watch on an iPad?

Dave

If you use something like yt-dlp, you can get a list of the formats available. At one time, there were some 4K titles which resulted in rather large files (1GB per video). If your equipment has a decoding limitation, you
should be able to adjust what you receive. One way or another.

The useragent of the device, should help Youtube select a format
that works. Within the total range of CODECs that Youtube uses.
For example, you would not expect the video to be Cinepak.

This is an out-of-date example (as the tool now might be yt-dlp).
Normally, you don't have to select a format, as it uses "BEST"
by default. And the pickings are slim in this example. Nothing of any real quality.
BEST means selecting the best audio stream and the best video stream
and muxing them together with FFMPEG.

youtube-dl --list-formats https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyQUCYl-ocs

[youtube] wyQUCYl-ocs: Downloading webpage
[youtube] wyQUCYl-ocs: Downloading video info webpage
[youtube] wyQUCYl-ocs: Extracting video information
[youtube] wyQUCYl-ocs: Downloading js player vflmw6aFG
[youtube] wyQUCYl-ocs: Downloading MPD manifest
[info] Available formats for wyQUCYl-ocs:
format code extension resolution note
139 m4a audio only DASH audio 48k , m4a_dash container, mp4a.40.5@ 48k (22050Hz), 1.90MiB
249 webm audio only DASH audio 60k , opus @ 50k, 2.03MiB
250 webm audio only DASH audio 79k , opus @ 70k, 2.52MiB
171 webm audio only DASH audio 91k , vorbis@128k, 3.19MiB
140 m4a audio only DASH audio 128k , m4a_dash container, mp4a.40.2@128k (44100Hz), 5.06MiB
251 webm audio only DASH audio 156k , opus @160k, 5.50MiB
160 mp4 192x144 DASH video 85k , avc1.4d400b, 25fps, video only, 3.30MiB
133 mp4 320x240 DASH video 204k , avc1.4d400d, 25fps, video only, 7.50MiB
17 3gp 176x144 small , mp4v.20.3, mp4a.40.2@ 24k
36 3gp 320x240 small , mp4v.20.3, mp4a.40.2
18 mp4 320x240 medium , avc1.42001E, mp4a.40.2@ 96k
43 webm 640x360 medium , vp8.0, vorbis@128k (best)

Paul

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc



On Mon, 31 Mar 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 31/03/2025 21:16, D wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad doesn't >>>> need to leave the house either!

Its Apple.
It doesn't have a mouse
It doesn't have a keyboard
It doesn't understand many video protocols
Its shit

Again you have shown yourself to be a wise man! I completely agree! I won >> an
iPad once at a company event. After trying to use it for one month I came >> to the
conclusion that I could do everything it could do with my computer, and my >> computer could do more and had longer battery life, and was generally more >> useful. So why should I carry two things?

I sold it for about 200 EUR or so.

Very wise. My sister has one. It cant to vorbis/Vp8,
She chats on whats app and watches apple TV.

But how can she stand typing on that thing? It is not a pleasant
experience!
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

In article <701af825-6c39-135f-6233-9f8f745edfcf@example.net>, D <nospam@example.net> wrote:

On Mon, 31 Mar 2025, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 31/03/2025 21:16, D wrote:

You could use an iPad to watch You tube shit in bed and the iPad
doesn't need to leave the house either!

Its Apple. It doesn't have a mouse It doesn't have a keyboard It
doesn't understand many video protocols Its shit

Again you have shown yourself to be a wise man! I completely agree! I
won an iPad once at a company event. After trying to use it for one
month I came to the conclusion that I could do everything it could do
with my computer, and my computer could do more and had longer battery
life, and was generally more useful. So why should I carry two things?

I sold it for about 200 EUR or so.

Very wise. My sister has one. It cant to vorbis/Vp8, She chats on whats
app and watches apple TV.

But how can she stand typing on that thing? It is not a pleasant
experience!

I don't type on mine, I't is used to store sheet music saving me inches
worth of shelf space and much easier to carry about rathe than 3+ lever
arch files.
--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4t�
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Sun, 30 Mar 2025 09:58:13 +0100, wasbit wrote:

On 30/03/2025 07:19, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Then we have those users who complain about Free software not being as
good as the proprietary stuff. If they would divert some of the money
they give to the proprietary vendors and give it to the Free software
developers, think how much better those products could be.

Why don't you apply that argument to car manufacturers?

I suppose it would be relevant to car makers who give their product away
for free ... except nobody does.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Sun, 30 Mar 2025 16:06:16 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 30/03/2025 07:19, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 14:01:40 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

However keep in mind that paying for software from commercial vendors
like MS also pays for large swathes of the "free" software you might
otherwise choose, since many of those developers can only afford to
donate time to open source projects only because they have income from
a "money grabbing" software vendor.

If only that were true. Most of those money-grabbing businesses are too
willing to take and not give back.

Hmmm, let's see if that lives up to scrutiny...

[list of high-profile Free software projects deleted]

So you think a dozen or so counterexamples is enough to establish your
point? That’s a drop in the bucket as far as Free Software is
concerned. The vast majority don’t enjoy that level of support at all.

Exhibit A: OpenSSL <https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/critical-crypto-bug-in-openssl-opens-two-thirds-of-the-web-to-eavesdropping/>.

Exhibit B: BusyBox
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox#GPL_lawsuits>.

Exhibit C: GIMP <https://www.gimp.org/news/2021/07/27/support-gimp-developers-sustainable-development/>.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Sun, 30 Mar 2025 11:51:24 -0400 (EDT), Scott Dorsey wrote:

However, as a minimalist, I wish they'd stop it with
adding all of this stuff.

You don’t have to use it. That’s why the Linux build system has all those menu options.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs5oru$2bpoa$1@dont-email.me> John Rumm wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it
allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to me.
Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

You do have some level of control on pro versions, and full control on
enterprise ones.

I treat my computer as a tool so compare it with, say, a room I am decorating. At the end of the work day the brushes get cleaned or put in soak, the lids go back on the various containers and that's it.

My main desktop is the same. Currently I have 5 documents open in
UltraEdit, 4 instances of Visual Studio running, my own notepad app and
my own programming toolbox all running. When I call it a day I turn the screen off. Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and reboots.
Most things will be saved, I have learnt my lesson from MSFT, but there
is no way in the world I will remember everything I had open.

I did consider Enterprise so I had control but the cost is prohibitive.
I do have my "JGRunningProcesses" app running. It write a log every 30 minutes of everything that is running and doesn't auto start after
shutdown. That means I can go through the last log if MSFT has done the dirty and set my workspace up again.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

Says the man running an OS that has not had any security patches since
January 10, 2023. :-)

It still gets some sort of updates which it installs when I tell it to.
As long as apps I wrote for Win98 continue to run I can be pretty sure
the Windows code base hasn't change much!

Don't forget Windows for warships is actually Windows 3.1 :-)

Err, no.

At the "Meet your navy" open day at Portsmouth in 2008 the
type 45 destroyer was running a more recent version of
Windows in the command and control centre (that was open
to the public).

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 28/03/2025 21:15, John Rumm wrote:

On 28/03/2025 13:19, mm0fmf wrote:

On 28/03/2025 13:01, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs64s0$2mjh4$1@dont-email.me> mm0fmf wrote:

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and reboots

Or you could, you know, set a group policy so that updates and
reboots are 99% in your control. And just like that, these forced
reboots are a thing of the past.

Sure you eventually have to install updates and reboots but YOU get
to chose when.

Not seen that touted as a possible solution, do you have a link to an
example please?

I have Win10 Pro and set the following Group Policies

Title: Notify to download updates
Source: Administrator
Type: Group Policy

Title: Set Automatic Update Options
Source: Administrator
Type: Group Policy


This means I get notifications that there updates to download but they
are not automatically downloaded. If the update is deemed "important"
by MS and you leave it "long enough" then eventually it will be
automatically downloaded and applied and maybe the PC rebooted.

MS decide what "important" and "long enough" are. But since switching
to W10 Pro on this PC in 2018/9 and applying these policies a few
weeks later, I have never had a forced download and installation of
any updates.

I did the changes through the Group Policy Editor. Can't remember now
just what you do but Google Group Policy Editor and those titles and
you should see how to make the changes.

One complication to note is that the group policy editor is not
installed on windows home. So you either have to find a clandestine way
to install it, or tweak the corresponding registry settings that are normally the final effect of using gpedit.msc

(or failing that just upgrade to pro)

I have Win 10 Pro and it simply notifies me that Updates are
available and I choose to download them. I must have set up
something on Win7 Pro that I upgraded from, because I don't
recollect making this choice on Win 10.

Annoyingly, updates for Edge just get blitzed in when I reboot
the m/c and I don't get asked. On a 32 bit m/c this can make
it unusable for a while.

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 02/04/2025 07:29, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 30 Mar 2025 09:58:13 +0100, wasbit wrote:

On 30/03/2025 07:19, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Then we have those users who complain about Free software not being as
good as the proprietary stuff. If they would divert some of the money
they give to the proprietary vendors and give it to the Free software
developers, think how much better those products could be.

Why don't you apply that argument to car manufacturers?

I suppose it would be relevant to car makers who give their product away
for free ... except nobody does.

Tesla might have to.
--
Sam Plusnet
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 02/04/2025 19:31, Andrew wrote:

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs5oru$2bpoa$1@dont-email.me> John Rumm wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete,
unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it
allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to
me. Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

You do have some level of control on pro versions, and full control
on enterprise ones.

I treat my computer as a tool so compare it with, say, a room I am
decorating. At the end of the work day the brushes get cleaned or put
in soak, the lids go back on the various containers and that's it.

My main desktop is the same. Currently I have 5 documents open in
UltraEdit, 4 instances of Visual Studio running, my own notepad app
and my own programming toolbox all running. When I call it a day I
turn the screen off. Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and
reboots. Most things will be saved, I have learnt my lesson from MSFT,
but there is no way in the world I will remember everything I had open.

I did consider Enterprise so I had control but the cost is
prohibitive. I do have my "JGRunningProcesses" app running. It write a
log every 30 minutes of everything that is running and doesn't auto
start after shutdown. That means I can go through the last log if MSFT
has done the dirty and set my workspace up again.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

Says the man running an OS that has not had any security patches
since January 10, 2023. :-)

It still gets some sort of updates which it installs when I tell it
to. As long as apps I wrote for Win98 continue to run I can be pretty
sure the Windows code base hasn't change much!

Don't forget Windows for warships is actually Windows 3.1 :-)

Err, no.

At the "Meet your navy" open day at Portsmouth in 2008 the
type 45 destroyer was running a more recent version of
Windows in the command and control centre (that was open
to the public).

I remember lots of comments (even before 2008) when one of HM's latest
ships was said to be running Win 3.1.
On inspection, it was evident that the software in question was actually
test software used as part of the "Setting to Work" process to get the systems talking to each other. Nothing at all to do with the software
used when operational.

(At that time, I was using test software - on quite different hardware -
which was DOS based. If test software does the job, you don't bother to change it.)
--
Sam Plusnet
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 02/04/2025 07:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sun, 30 Mar 2025 16:06:16 +0100, John Rumm wrote:

On 30/03/2025 07:19, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 14:01:40 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

However keep in mind that paying for software from commercial vendors
like MS also pays for large swathes of the "free" software you might
otherwise choose, since many of those developers can only afford to
donate time to open source projects only because they have income from >>>> a "money grabbing" software vendor.

If only that were true. Most of those money-grabbing businesses are too
willing to take and not give back.

Hmmm, let's see if that lives up to scrutiny...

[list of high-profile Free software projects deleted]

So you think a dozen or so counterexamples is enough to establish your
point? That’s a drop in the bucket as far as Free Software is
concerned. The vast majority don’t enjoy that level of support at all.

Exhibit A: OpenSSL <https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/critical-crypto-bug-in-openssl-opens-two-thirds-of-the-web-to-eavesdropping/>.

This example is 11 years old!

Exhibit B: BusyBox
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BusyBox#GPL_lawsuits>.

Exhibit C: GIMP <https://www.gimp.org/news/2021/07/27/support-gimp-developers-sustainable-development/>.

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 02/04/2025 20:42, Sam Plusnet wrote:

On 02/04/2025 19:31, Andrew wrote:

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs5oru$2bpoa$1@dont-email.me> John Rumm wrote: >>>

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>>>>> unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it
allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to
me. Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

You do have some level of control on pro versions, and full control
on enterprise ones.

I treat my computer as a tool so compare it with, say, a room I am
decorating. At the end of the work day the brushes get cleaned or put
in soak, the lids go back on the various containers and that's it.

My main desktop is the same. Currently I have 5 documents open in
UltraEdit, 4 instances of Visual Studio running, my own notepad app
and my own programming toolbox all running. When I call it a day I
turn the screen off. Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and
reboots. Most things will be saved, I have learnt my lesson from
MSFT, but there is no way in the world I will remember everything I
had open.

I did consider Enterprise so I had control but the cost is
prohibitive. I do have my "JGRunningProcesses" app running. It write
a log every 30 minutes of everything that is running and doesn't auto
start after shutdown. That means I can go through the last log if
MSFT has done the dirty and set my workspace up again.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

Says the man running an OS that has not had any security patches
since January 10, 2023. :-)

It still gets some sort of updates which it installs when I tell it
to. As long as apps I wrote for Win98 continue to run I can be pretty
sure the Windows code base hasn't change much!

Don't forget Windows for warships is actually Windows 3.1 :-)

Err, no.

At the "Meet your navy" open day at Portsmouth in 2008 the
type 45 destroyer was running a more recent version of
Windows in the command and control centre (that was open
to the public).

I remember lots of comments (even before 2008) when one of HM's latest
ships was said to be running Win 3.1.
On inspection, it was evident that the software in question was actually
 test software used as part of the "Setting to Work" process to get the systems talking to each other.  Nothing at all to do with the software
used when operational.

(At that time, I was using test software - on quite different hardware - which was DOS based.  If test software does the job, you don't bother to change it.)

Dos was an easy platform to code simple jobs for - direct access to
hardware, simple interrupt system, and no nasty background tasks going on

Nothing wrong with it,
--
“Ideas are inherently conservative. They yield not to the attack of
other ideas but to the massive onslaught of circumstance"

- John K Galbraith


--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 02/04/2025 in message <vsk02u$1qgk2$2@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

I have Win 10 Pro and it simply notifies me that Updates are
available and I choose to download them. I must have set up
something on Win7 Pro that I upgraded from, because I don't
recollect making this choice on Win 10.

I haven't been able to get Win 10 to work like that, if you ever find out
how I would love to know!
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Captcha is thinking of stopping the use of pictures with traffic lights as cyclists don't know what they are.
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 02/04/2025 21:03, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

On 02/04/2025 20:42, Sam Plusnet wrote:

On 02/04/2025 19:31, Andrew wrote:

On 28/03/2025 12:23, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 28/03/2025 in message <vs5oru$2bpoa$1@dont-email.me> John Rumm
wrote:

Would you entrust mission-critical business operations to obsolete, >>>>>>> unsupported software?

I use Windows 8.1 on all my machines that will run it because it
allows me to download updates and install them when convenient to >>>>>> me. Why this facility doesn't exit on Win 10 goodness knows.

You do have some level of control on pro versions, and full control >>>>> on enterprise ones.

I treat my computer as a tool so compare it with, say, a room I am
decorating. At the end of the work day the brushes get cleaned or
put in soak, the lids go back on the various containers and that's it. >>>>
My main desktop is the same. Currently I have 5 documents open in
UltraEdit, 4 instances of Visual Studio running, my own notepad app
and my own programming toolbox all running. When I call it a day I
turn the screen off. Along comes MSFT in the middle of the night and
reboots. Most things will be saved, I have learnt my lesson from
MSFT, but there is no way in the world I will remember everything I
had open.

I did consider Enterprise so I had control but the cost is
prohibitive. I do have my "JGRunningProcesses" app running. It write
a log every 30 minutes of everything that is running and doesn't
auto start after shutdown. That means I can go through the last log
if MSFT has done the dirty and set my workspace up again.

I see you've been suckered by MSFT marketing bullshit :-)

Says the man running an OS that has not had any security patches
since January 10, 2023. :-)

It still gets some sort of updates which it installs when I tell it
to. As long as apps I wrote for Win98 continue to run I can be
pretty sure the Windows code base hasn't change much!

Don't forget Windows for warships is actually Windows 3.1 :-)

Err, no.

At the "Meet your navy" open day at Portsmouth in 2008 the
type 45 destroyer was running a more recent version of
Windows in the command and control centre (that was open
to the public).

I remember lots of comments (even before 2008) when one of HM's latest
ships was said to be running Win 3.1.
On inspection, it was evident that the software in question was
actually   test software used as part of the "Setting to Work" process
to get the systems talking to each other.  Nothing at all to do with
the software used when operational.

(At that time, I was using test software - on quite different hardware
- which was DOS based.  If test software does the job, you don't
bother to change it.)

Dos was an easy platform to code simple jobs for - direct access to hardware, simple interrupt  system, and no nasty background tasks going on

Nothing wrong with it,

I suppose if you prefer to page 64k chunks in an out of a 1MB address
space, and only being able to run one application at a time, then it's absolutely great.

Most of us have moved on, a very, very long time ago.


--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 02/04/2025 21:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 02/04/2025 in message <vsk02u$1qgk2$2@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

I have Win 10 Pro and it simply notifies me that Updates are
available and I choose to download them. I must have set up
something on Win7 Pro that I upgraded from, because I don't
recollect making this choice on Win 10.

Are are you sure it doesn't download major updates, its just the
optional it prompts for.

I haven't been able to get Win 10 to work like that, if you ever find
out how I would love to know!

I don't believe you can, except in an enterprise settings. You can set

"Notify me when a restart is required"

but after 24 hours it may still restart automatically.

Dave
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Wed, 2 Apr 2025 21:02:02 +0100
John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

On 02/04/2025 07:41, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

Exhibit A: OpenSSL <https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/critical-crypto-bug-in-openssl-opens-two-thirds-of-the-web-to-eavesdropping/>.

This example is 11 years old!

And it will never be forgotten. It is a perfect textbook example of how
not to create extremely important and sensitive production software, to
be used by half the world. It will be taught in computer science
classes forever.

The bug was a schoolboy buffer addressing error. The code involved a
new function in OpenSSL, one which had previously been considered
unnecessary. It was coded by a student, and it was audited by *one*
other person, who had a close personal connection with the writer,
before inclusion in the Linux kernel.

In other words, everything that could be done incorrectly in terms of
accepted software engineering practices was done. The error was always
claimed to be accidental, but certainly, the intelligence services of
the world, and many criminals, benefited from it.
--
Joe

--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Wed, 4/2/2025 4:41 PM, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 02/04/2025 in message <vsk02u$1qgk2$2@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

I have Win 10 Pro and it simply notifies me that Updates are
available and I choose to download them. I must have set up
something on Win7 Pro that I upgraded from, because I don't
recollect making this choice on Win 10.

I haven't been able to get Win 10 to work like that, if you ever find  out how I would love to know!

You can cut off all updates, if you want. One win10 user in the Win10
group, has frozen his OS that way. This does not prevent App Updates,
which you can see happening if you open Setup and type "relia" for
the reliability monitor. It logs application update activity, at least,
some of it.

The ChromEdge browser the computer uses, it has multiple instances
and updates, and you can find space wasted on your computer for that,
as if some of the versions are there for emergency rollback. I don't know
if that is logged in the reliability monitor. There is a separate file.

C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\EdgeUpdate\Log\MicrosoftEdgeUpdate.log

Looks like there is activity, hourly.

Paul
--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 03/04/2025 09:49, David Wade wrote:

On 02/04/2025 21:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 02/04/2025 in message <vsk02u$1qgk2$2@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

I have Win 10 Pro and it simply notifies me that Updates are
available and I choose to download them. I must have set up
something on Win7 Pro that I upgraded from, because I don't
recollect making this choice on Win 10.

Are are you sure it doesn't download major updates, its just the
optional it prompts for.

No, the notification says "You need some updates". I click on it
and the Windows update page appears showing whatever patch tuesday
updates are available, plus the daily "you have installed something
we don't like" update, and below is an optional "quality" update
which I ignore

Putting "updates" into the search box and selecting "Windows Update
Settings" puts me into the main Windows Update page, where I can
see "view configured update policies" and clicking on this shows
a page with the text "Wondering why you're seeing 'Some settings are
managed by your organisation" (which shows at the top of the main
Windows Update page).

Then under "Policies set on your device" I see -
Notify to download updates
Source:Administrator
Type:Group Policy

Set Automatic Update Options
Source:Administrator
Type:Group Policy

On the right of the screen is a link to learn how Windows
Group Policies manage updates, which gives this page -

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/waas-wu-settings

Scroll down this page to "Configuring Automatic Updates by using Group
Policy" and this looks like how you alter the way updates are downloaded
and installed

Hope this helps

Andrew



--- Synchronet 3.20c-Linux NewsLink 1.2

From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On 30/03/2025 09:58, wasbit wrote:

On 30/03/2025 07:19, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Sat, 29 Mar 2025 14:01:40 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

However keep in mind that paying for software from commercial vendors
like MS also pays for large swathes of the "free" software you might
otherwise choose, since many of those developers can only afford to
donate time to open source projects only because they have income from a >>> "money grabbing" software vendor.

If only that were true. Most of those money-grabbing businesses are too
willing to take and not give back.

Then we have those users who complain about Free software not being as
good as the proprietary stuff. If they would divert some of the money
they
give to the proprietary vendors and give it to the Free software
developers, think how much better those products could be.

Why don't you apply that argument to car manufacturers? They make a
number of variations of the same car.

I have always been grateful for free software.

It's backward thinking & greedy to expect the best of everything for
free just because it's available.

And the fact that 20% of new cars are supplied by Motabilty sort
of confirms that when it comes to 'free' the British are experts
at freeloading off others.

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From Newsgroup: comp.misc

On Thu, 4/3/2025 11:11 AM, Andrew wrote:

On 03/04/2025 09:49, David Wade wrote:

On 02/04/2025 21:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:

On 02/04/2025 in message <vsk02u$1qgk2$2@dont-email.me> Andrew wrote:

I have Win 10 Pro and it simply notifies me that Updates are
available and I choose to download them. I must have set up
something on Win7 Pro that I upgraded from, because I don't
recollect making this choice on Win 10.

Are are you sure it doesn't download major updates, its just the optional it prompts for.

No, the notification says "You need some updates". I click on it
and the Windows update page appears showing whatever patch tuesday
updates are available, plus the daily "you have installed something
we don't like" update, and below is an optional "quality" update
which I ignore

Putting "updates" into the search box and selecting "Windows Update
Settings" puts me into the main Windows Update page, where I can
see "view configured update policies" and clicking on this shows
a page with the text "Wondering why you're seeing 'Some settings are
managed by your organisation" (which shows at the top of the main
Windows Update page).

Then under "Policies set on your device" I see -
Notify to download updates
Source:Administrator
Type:Group Policy

Set Automatic Update Options
Source:Administrator
Type:Group Policy

On the right of the screen is a link to learn how Windows
Group Policies manage updates, which gives this page -

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/deployment/update/waas-wu-settings

Scroll down this page to "Configuring Automatic Updates by using Group Policy" and this looks like how you alter the way updates are downloaded
and installed

Hope this helps

Andrew

Updates are put into batches and given a monthly stamp.
This may have been intended at one time, to improve the performance
of the Windows Update installation process, which had a huge preamble
as the update process computed which update supersedes which other update.
Even the Jumbo packing mechanism is causing problems for Windows Update,
and the scan time can be pretty long now (a scan happens before an Update
can come in).

They can be on the order of 600MB to 700MB, if downloaded from catalog.update.microsoft.com .
The Catalog entries are "Cumulative", except when they aren't Cumulative and other
older patches insist on installing after a later one is installed. the patches can
contain Servicing Stack Updates, and those gate later patches.

While there is some sort of scheme to only download the parts of it not on the machine (delta method),
I don't know relative numbers for that. Getting the update through Windows Update
and not downloading an executable .msu file, might only take 200MB.

In the WinXP era, a Security Update could be 2MB to 3MB, and orders of magnitude
smaller than the jumbo things that come in now.

Other patching activity is happening constantly. MSEdge checks once per hour for updates.
Metro.Apps, you can see in the Reliability Monitor, entries corresponding to them
being updated. Telemetry is uploaded in batches (at relatively low rate). Typed URLs are being sent to Vortex. It's a busy busy heap of steaming trash.

Some day soon, CoPilot.App may need to be removed. A capability to "watch your screen"
is being added (not "Recall", a new feature). The CoPilot.App is not absolutely required,
as the upper-right corner of MSEdge browser has an icon, and you can still ask questions
(without the machine having access to your screen). The topic of CoPilot "Helping run your machine",
is fraught with peril. For example, say that CoPilot knows what the "del" command does. Is that a good thing ? :-/ It would be like a Self Driving Chainsaw.

Paul
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