"Six days ago, upgradeable laptop maker Framework tried to convinceWhere is the problem?
its fractious user community to live in a "big tent" after a Debian
developer objected to the company's sponsorship of Hyprland and its
social media promotion of Omarchy, with both projects associated with politically polarizing viewpoints.
Antoine Beaupré, aka anarcat, demanded that Framework clarify itsWhy should they clarify anything?
political position with regard to these two projects."
I'd never heard of either. Omarchy is Arch based and comes withGeneral flame war, nothing special.
Hyprland pre-configured. I'm not a fan of tiling window managers so
I'll pass. Hansson (Omarchy) is a Dane and takes the Danish possition
on immigrants. Sweden is right across the bridge; keep moving. The
Hyprland people have a sense of humor on their forum that included
editing one user's preferred pronouns from 'she/they' to 'who/cares'
and other heinous stuff.
Just me, but I would tell anarcat to shove his demands up his assI assume it is just hot air. Wait some time and then the complaints
sideways. I wonder if he stomps his widdle feet while he's demanding.
I assume it is just hot air. Wait some time and then the complaints
about the opinions are gone and irrelevant.
"Six days ago, upgradeable laptop maker Framework tried to convince its >fractious user community to live in a "big tent" after a Debian developer >objected to the company's sponsorship of Hyprland and its social media >promotion of Omarchy, with both projects associated with politically >polarizing viewpoints.
Antoine Beaupré, aka anarcat, demanded that Framework clarify its
political position with regard to these two projects."
I'd never heard of either. Omarchy is Arch based and comes with Hyprland >pre-configured. I'm not a fan of tiling window managers so I'll pass. >Hansson (Omarchy) is a Dane and takes the Danish possition on immigrants. >Sweden is right across the bridge; keep moving. The Hyprland people have a >sense of humor on their forum that included editing one user's preferred >pronouns from 'she/they' to 'who/cares' and other heinous stuff.
Just me, but I would tell anarcat to shove his demands up his ass
sideways. I wonder if he stomps his widdle feet while he's demanding.
Why does everything need to be a ******* battle in a culture war? My
patience with these children is wearing thin.
Because there are people who want to push their own political opinions
into anything (like companies, software projects) and want others to
obey them.
Why does everything need to be a ******* battle in a culture war?
On Sat, 18 Oct 2025 08:20:04 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:
Because there are people who want to push their own political opinions
into anything (like companies, software projects) and want others to
obey them.
Never forget that Free Software is itself a political concept.
Why does everything need to be a ******* battle in a culture war? My
patience with these children is wearing thin.
In comp.os.linux.misc, Jason H <jason_hindle@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why does everything need to be a ******* battle in a culture war? My
patience with these children is wearing thin.
1. Transpeople write a lot of computer software and do other work on
tech products.
2. Transphobes are in control of several large projects, having revealed
their phobias late in the game. Case in point here, DHH with Ruby
on Rails, and also main power behind Omarchy.
3. The people from point one and the people from point two get along
like water and sodium.
4. The people in group two like to rely on the outsider masses see the
group one people as the noisy problem.
5. The people in group one make noise because they've learned the lesson
of Act Up: Silence = Death.
I tend to find the people in group one a whole lot more reasonable than
the people in group two. Fascists tend to align with the group two
people because having some outgroup to blame for problems lets them get
on with the fascism while people are distracted.
I'm an interested party in all this because I bought a laptop from them several months ago. It's not a good look to find them ignoring concerns
of the people most interested in open systems. It's like Elon Musk
courting Republicans, when Republicans mostly think gasoline is a god
given right, while his customers will find the courtship offensive.
Elijah
------
tag yourself, but point two group or point three group looks likely
In comp.os.linux.misc, Jason H <jason_hindle@yahoo.com> wrote:
Why does everything need to be a ******* battle in a culture war? My
patience with these children is wearing thin.
1. Transpeople write a lot of computer software and do other work on
tech products.
2. Transphobes are in control of several large projects, having revealed
their phobias late in the game. Case in point here, DHH with Ruby
on Rails, and also main power behind Omarchy.
3. The people from point one and the people from point two get along
like water and sodium.
4. The people in group two like to rely on the outsider masses see the
group one people as the noisy problem.
5. The people in group one make noise because they've learned the lesson
of Act Up: Silence = Death.
I tend to find the people in group one a whole lot more reasonable than
the people in group two. Fascists tend to align with the group two
people because having some outgroup to blame for problems lets them get
on with the fascism while people are distracted.
I'm an interested party in all this because I bought a laptop from them several months ago. It's not a good look to find them ignoring concerns
of the people most interested in open systems. It's like Elon Musk
courting Republicans, when Republicans mostly think gasoline is a god
given right, while his customers will find the courtship offensive.
Elijah
------
tag yourself, but point two group or point three group looks likely
Who the hell cares? People are sick and tired of this political
rubbish.
They are children, wanting others to make some fealty statements
otherwise they cry.
Frankly, if developers are going to get into a tizzy because others are
not going to make subservient political statements that they want them t make, then they can just bugger off. If that means we see less
pointless Rust re-writes of existing software, then so be it.
We all see through this charade. They are political activists, trying
to bully others into being politically active.
Frankly, if developersOr anyone else for that matter...
are going to get into a tizzy because others are not going to make subservient political statements that they want them t make, then
they can just bugger off. If that means we see less pointless Rust
re-writes of existing software, then so be it.
We all see through this charade. They are political activists,
trying to bully others into being politically active.
On 10/21/25 13:00, Borax Man wrote:
Who the hell cares? People are sick and tired of this political
rubbish.
They are children, wanting others to make some fealty statements
otherwise they cry.
Frankly, if developers are going to get into a tizzy because others are
not going to make subservient political statements that they want them t
make, then they can just bugger off. If that means we see less
pointless Rust re-writes of existing software, then so be it.
We all see through this charade. They are political activists, trying
to bully others into being politically active.
I don't mix much with young people, but it seems to me this kind of
stuff is over-represented in the Linux free software community.
Is there something about Linux development that attracts intolerant evangelists. I don't think it is just trans issues, in the past I can remember people getting over-heated about boring everyday stuff such as bicycle helmets.
It's like they should be taking chill pills.
Are Rust rewrites pointless? It seems to me, a modern OS should be
written in a modern language. The thing I don't have a feeling for is if
it is best to incrementally refactor Linux, or if someone should start
from scratch.
On 10/21/25 13:00, Borax Man wrote:
Who the hell cares? People are sick and tired of this politicalI don't mix much with young people, but it seems to me this kind of
rubbish.
They are children, wanting others to make some fealty statements
otherwise they cry.
Frankly, if developers are going to get into a tizzy because others are
not going to make subservient political statements that they want them
t make, then they can just bugger off. If that means we see less
pointless Rust re-writes of existing software, then so be it.
We all see through this charade. They are political activists, trying
to bully others into being politically active.
stuff is over-represented in the Linux free software community.''
Is there something about Linux development that attracts intolerant evangelists.
On Sat, 18 Oct 2025 08:20:04 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:Indeed it is, but it is about certain freedoms - not about real
Because there are people who want to push their own political
opinions into anything (like companies, software projects) and want
others to obey them.
Never forget that Free Software is itself a political concept.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
On 10/21/25 13:00, Borax Man wrote:
Who the hell cares? People are sick and tired of this politicalI don't mix much with young people, but it seems to me this kind of
rubbish.
They are children, wanting others to make some fealty statements
otherwise they cry.
Frankly, if developers are going to get into a tizzy because others are
not going to make subservient political statements that they want them
t make, then they can just bugger off. If that means we see less
pointless Rust re-writes of existing software, then so be it.
We all see through this charade. They are political activists, trying
to bully others into being politically active.
stuff is over-represented in the Linux free software community.''
Vaguely related: I didn't attend but in the photos of Saturday's No Kings demonstration I saw what I thought was a surprising amount of gray fur. I wrote it off since this city has a lot of aging hippies. From commentsSome people never left the protest marches of the 1960s.
across the country it seems boomers were over represented across the
country.
I'd have thought it was a young person thing.
On 10/21/25 13:00, Borax Man wrote:
Who the hell cares? People are sick and tired of this political
rubbish.
They are children, wanting others to make some fealty statements
otherwise they cry.
Frankly, if developers are going to get into a tizzy because others are
not going to make subservient political statements that they want them t
make, then they can just bugger off. If that means we see less
pointless Rust re-writes of existing software, then so be it.
We all see through this charade. They are political activists, trying
to bully others into being politically active.
I don't mix much with young people, but it seems to me this kind of
stuff is over-represented in the Linux free software community.
Is there something about Linux development that attracts intolerant evangelists. I don't think it is just trans issues, in the past I can remember people getting over-heated about boring everyday stuff such as bicycle helmets.
It's like they should be taking chill pills.
Are Rust rewrites pointless? It seems to me, a modern OS should be
written in a modern language. The thing I don't have a feeling for is if
it is best to incrementally refactor Linux, or if someone should start
from scratch.
I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take control of the Free Software movement, by moving the major tools from
others to yourself, where you can police and gatekeep the community. If
your half-baked rust version (and they usually are half baked) is what
is now being used by Distros, that gives you power, and you can be more political.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
Is there something about Linux development that attracts intolerant
evangelists.
It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or figuring out how it works and developing it in your own way, and then redistributing your
new, improved version.
There are too many of these complainers around, who don’t actually understand how to contribute to the software, who nevertheless like to put down those who do.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
On 10/21/25 13:00, Borax Man wrote:
Who the hell cares? People are sick and tired of this politicalI don't mix much with young people, but it seems to me this kind of
rubbish.
They are children, wanting others to make some fealty statements
otherwise they cry.
Frankly, if developers are going to get into a tizzy because others are
not going to make subservient political statements that they want them
t make, then they can just bugger off. If that means we see less
pointless Rust re-writes of existing software, then so be it.
We all see through this charade. They are political activists, trying
to bully others into being politically active.
stuff is over-represented in the Linux free software community.''
Vaguely related: I didn't attend but in the photos of Saturday's No Kings demonstration I saw what I thought was a surprising amount of gray fur. I wrote it off since this city has a lot of aging hippies. From comments
across the country it seems boomers were over represented across the
country.
I'd have thought it was a young person thing.
Vaguely related: I didn't attend but in the photos of Saturday's No Kings demonstration I saw what I thought was a surprising amount of gray fur. I wrote it off since this city has a lot of aging hippies. From comments across the country it seems boomers were over represented across the country.
I'd have thought it was a young person thing.
On 2025-10-21, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
Vaguely related: I didn't attend but in the photos of Saturday's No
Kings demonstration I saw what I thought was a surprising amount of
gray fur. I wrote it off since this city has a lot of aging hippies.
From comments across the country it seems boomers were over represented
across the country.
I'd have thought it was a young person thing.
Probably a lot of those boomers are explaining things to the young
people, many of whom get a blank look when you mention Kent State. Some
of those boomers might even be able to relate their parents' stories
about Germany in the 1930s.
Personally, I think they are right. I think there is something wrong
with our current political system. Big money/lobbying has too much
influence. Free speech is being stifled.
On 18.10.2025 06:33 Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 18 Oct 2025 08:20:04 +0200, Marco Moock wrote:
Because there are people who want to push their own political
opinions into anything (like companies, software projects) and want
others to obey them.
Never forget that Free Software is itself a political concept.
Indeed it is, but it is about certain freedoms - not about real
politicians and their ideas - even when certain programmers have
opinions on that.
On 10/21/25 23:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
But that is exactly what some free software developers do to other
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
Is there something about Linux development that attracts
intolerant evangelists.
It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or figuring
out how it works and developing it in your own way, and then
redistributing your new, improved version.
free software developers.
There was an example of this with the graphics drivers for RK3588
Mali g610. A developer broke away from the "official" MESA team and
delivered a working driver. The official team criticised other
projects for using this driver. Apparently, all the end users should
have waited a year or two for them to develop an official driver.
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:34:43 +0100, Pancho wrote:
Personally, I think they are right. I think there is something wrong
with our current political system. Big money/lobbying has too much
influence. Free speech is being stifled.
I can agree with that. However the No Kings thing is also sponsored by big money that I want no part of.
I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take control of the Free Software movement ...
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 11:31:37 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take
control of the Free Software movement ...
Any good conspiracy theory must obey rule 1: “Cui bono?” -- Who stands to
benefit? Or if you prefer, “follow the money”.
How can any hypothetical group, no matter how sinister or shadowy, 1) take control of a movement which is inherently based on freedom from anybody’s control, and 2) accumulate money and/or power by doing so?
Sometimes it’s quite amusing to see the conspiracy theorists tie themselves in knots trying to answer these questions ...
On 2025-10-21, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@protonmail.com> wrote:
On 10/21/25 13:00, Borax Man wrote:
Who the hell cares? People are sick and tired of this political
rubbish.
They are children, wanting others to make some fealty statements
otherwise they cry.
Frankly, if developers are going to get into a tizzy because others are
not going to make subservient political statements that they want them t >>> make, then they can just bugger off. If that means we see less
pointless Rust re-writes of existing software, then so be it.
We all see through this charade. They are political activists, trying
to bully others into being politically active.
I don't mix much with young people, but it seems to me this kind of
stuff is over-represented in the Linux free software community.
Is there something about Linux development that attracts intolerant
evangelists. I don't think it is just trans issues, in the past I can
remember people getting over-heated about boring everyday stuff such as
bicycle helmets.
It's like they should be taking chill pills.
Are Rust rewrites pointless? It seems to me, a modern OS should be
written in a modern language. The thing I don't have a feeling for is if
it is best to incrementally refactor Linux, or if someone should start
from scratch.
I think they are. If it isn't broken, why fix it?
I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take control of the Free Software movement, by moving the major tools from
others to yourself, where you can police and gatekeep the community. If
your half-baked rust version (and they usually are half baked) is what
is now being used by Distros, that gives you power, and you can be more political.
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:34:43 +0100, Pancho wrote:
Personally, I think they are right. I think there is something wrong
with our current political system. Big money/lobbying has too much
influence. Free speech is being stifled.
I can agree with that. However the No Kings thing is also sponsored by big money that I want no part of.
On 10/22/25 13:41, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:34:43 +0100, Pancho wrote:
Personally, I think they are right. I think there is something wrong
with our current political system. Big money/lobbying has too much
influence. Free speech is being stifled.
I can agree with that. However the No Kings thing is also sponsored by
big
money that I want no part of.
What big money is that?
What is wrong with the government is that while the founders and writers
of the Constitution were ethical white men of that time they failed to consider
that parties which would send felons to high office would exist.
The Constitution must be amended to provide protection against such events in the future.
A man not owning a home who seeks no building permit but hires a firm
and set them to work to demolish half of the building to make was for his
very large ballroom.
That ballroom by the way has been panned by critics already.
Some have said the next President will have to tear it down. If it
is built
then we should find some use for it. He has already destroyed lovely details of the East Wing.
But he disregards the laws concerning such projects as he did the proper
sums on financial reports.
bliss
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:15:21 +0100, Pancho wrote:
On 10/21/25 23:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
But that is exactly what some free software developers do to other
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
Is there something about Linux development that attracts
intolerant evangelists.
It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or figuring
out how it works and developing it in your own way, and then
redistributing your new, improved version.
free software developers.
They can eject people from a team, they can’t stop those people
continuing the development elsewhere.
There was an example of this with the graphics drivers for RK3588
Mali g610. A developer broke away from the "official" MESA team and
delivered a working driver. The official team criticised other
projects for using this driver. Apparently, all the end users should
have waited a year or two for them to develop an official driver.
And did they?
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 11:31:37 -0000 (UTC), Borax Man wrote:
I suspect part of the motivatoin for the "rewrite in Rust", is to take
control of the Free Software movement ...
Any good conspiracy theory must obey rule 1: “Cui bono?” -- Who stands to
benefit? Or if you prefer, “follow the money”.
How can any hypothetical group, no matter how sinister or shadowy, 1) take control of a movement which is inherently based on freedom from anybody’s control, and 2) accumulate money and/or power by doing so?
Sometimes it’s quite amusing to see the conspiracy theorists tie themselves in knots trying to answer these questions ...
On 10/22/25 22:48, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:15:21 +0100, Pancho wrote:
On 10/21/25 23:55, Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
But that is exactly what some free software developers do to other
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 13:37:27 +0100, Pancho wrote:
Is there something about Linux development that attracts
intolerant evangelists.
It’s Free Software. Nobody can stop you from using it, or figuring
out how it works and developing it in your own way, and then
redistributing your new, improved version.
free software developers.
They can eject people from a team, they can’t stop those people
continuing the development elsewhere.
Teams ejecting members is fine, attempting to cancel the ejected person
is not.
There was an example of this with the graphics drivers for RK3588
Mali g610. A developer broke away from the "official" MESA team and
delivered a working driver. The official team criticised other
projects for using this driver. Apparently, all the end users should
have waited a year or two for them to develop an official driver.
And did they?
Some other projects avoided the driver, others refused to help develop
it. The official driver is now out, but not yet with full functionality.
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