On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:24:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Most USA cars, you can easily get to, replace, things like brake
drums/discs/bearings without getting more extreme. But not EVERYBODY
thought that way.
Yeah, sure... When the master cylinder on my '51 Chevy failed it became obvious that the cylinder had been bolted to the frame before the body was added. There was a small plate to allow replacing fluid but no provision
for R&R.
I'm one of those strange people who looks under the hood when buying a
car. I like to identify everything that may need maintenance and make sure it's accessible.
On 10/13/25 15:05, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:24:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Most USA cars, you can easily get to, replace, things like brake
drums/discs/bearings without getting more extreme. But not
EVERYBODY thought that way.
Yeah, sure... When the master cylinder on my '51 Chevy failed it
became obvious that the cylinder had been bolted to the frame before
the body was added. There was a small plate to allow replacing fluid
but no provision for R&R.
Hey, 1951 ....
Drill the bolts and proceed.
On 10/13/25 15:05, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:24:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Most USA cars, you can easily get to, replace, things like brake
drums/discs/bearings without getting more extreme. But not EVERYBODY >>> thought that way.
Yeah, sure... When the master cylinder on my '51 Chevy failed it became >> obvious that the cylinder had been bolted to the frame before the body
was
added. There was a small plate to allow replacing fluid but no provision
for R&R.
Hey, 1951 ....
Drill the bolts and proceed.
I'm one of those strange people who looks under the hood when buying a
car. I like to identify everything that may need maintenance and make
sure
it's accessible.
THESE days ??? They INTENTIONALLY hide everything.
On 2025-10-14 07:24, c186282 wrote:
On 10/13/25 15:05, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:24:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Most USA cars, you can easily get to, replace, things like brake >>>> drums/discs/bearings without getting more extreme. But not
EVERYBODY
thought that way.
Yeah, sure... When the master cylinder on my '51 Chevy failed it
became
obvious that the cylinder had been bolted to the frame before the
body was
added. There was a small plate to allow replacing fluid but no provision >>> for R&R.
Hey, 1951 ....
Drill the bolts and proceed.
I'm one of those strange people who looks under the hood when buying a
car. I like to identify everything that may need maintenance and make
sure
it's accessible.
THESE days ??? They INTENTIONALLY hide everything.
These days what breaks are the electronic sensors. Mechanical is
eternal, almost :-)
On 14/10/2025 09:04, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-14 07:24, c186282 wrote:Not if its made of *plastic*.
On 10/13/25 15:05, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:24:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Most USA cars, you can easily get to, replace, things like brake >>>>> drums/discs/bearings without getting more extreme. But not
EVERYBODY
thought that way.
Yeah, sure... When the master cylinder on my '51 Chevy failed it
became
obvious that the cylinder had been bolted to the frame before the
body was
added. There was a small plate to allow replacing fluid but no
provision
for R&R.
Hey, 1951 ....
Drill the bolts and proceed.
I'm one of those strange people who looks under the hood when buying a >>>> car. I like to identify everything that may need maintenance and
make sure
it's accessible.
THESE days ??? They INTENTIONALLY hide everything.
These days what breaks are the electronic sensors. Mechanical is
eternal, almost :-)
Inlet manifolds made of plastic at a $600 replacement cost? Who, ever,
broke a cast inlet manifold back in the day?...
Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Engines that destroy themselves in a manufacturer's attempt to get
better gas mileage or emissions?
The cars are designed to last the warranty period and then be too
expensive to be worth fixing.
On 2025-10-14 11:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/10/2025 09:04, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-14 07:24, c186282 wrote:Not if its made of *plastic*.
On 10/13/25 15:05, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:24:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Most USA cars, you can easily get to, replace, things like brake >>>>>> drums/discs/bearings without getting more extreme. But not >>>>>> EVERYBODY
thought that way.
Yeah, sure... When the master cylinder on my '51 Chevy failed it >>>>> became
obvious that the cylinder had been bolted to the frame before the
body was
added. There was a small plate to allow replacing fluid but no
provision
for R&R.
Hey, 1951 ....
Drill the bolts and proceed.
I'm one of those strange people who looks under the hood when buying a >>>>> car. I like to identify everything that may need maintenance and
make sure
it's accessible.
THESE days ??? They INTENTIONALLY hide everything.
These days what breaks are the electronic sensors. Mechanical is
eternal, almost :-)
Hum. Yes. I repaired a radiator fan attachment part to the car body,
with epoxy resin with a fibre glass filling. The mechanic said *he*
could not do that (because he could not guarantee the repair for the mandatory time), but me, sure, fine. The repair did hold till the car
was recycled.
Inlet manifolds made of plastic at a $600 replacement cost? Who, ever,
broke a cast inlet manifold back in the day?...
Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Some are submerged in oil and break earlier. They decompose, clog the
oil filter with debris, and the engine is totalled because of oil
failure. Who was the idiot that thought submerging a rubber belt in oil
was a good idea?
On 14/10/2025 11:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well you are supposed to *change* them, and the oil they run in, regularly...Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Some are submerged in oil and break earlier. They decompose, clog the
oil filter with debris, and the engine is totalled because of oil
failure. Who was the idiot that thought submerging a rubber belt in
oil was a good idea?
Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
The USA, having at best sketchy vehicle mandatory inspections, is a rich source of 'what happens if I drive it till it falls apart?' vehicles.
On 2025-10-14 12:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/10/2025 11:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well you are supposed to *change* them, and the oil they run in,Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Some are submerged in oil and break earlier. They decompose, clog the
oil filter with debris, and the engine is totalled because of oil
failure. Who was the idiot that thought submerging a rubber belt in
oil was a good idea?
regularly...
Even if you do, they break way before their due time.
It is a known issue, well published.
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 11:32:06 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
The USA, having at best sketchy vehicle mandatory inspections, is a rich
source of 'what happens if I drive it till it falls apart?' vehicles.
Like many things, this is on a state by state basis. This state has no inspection and there are surprisingly few rolling wrecks. New Hampshire
had semi-annual inspections that could be a pain in the ass. I bought an
old Dodge pickup and somewhere along the line someone with big truck aspirations had added clearance lights to the top of the cab. Completely nonstandard and not legally required but because they were there they had
to work. I've also been flagged for lack of a horn. The only time I use a horn is by mistake but you had to have one.
They were good business for repair shops. The dreaded 'your ball joints
are worn' was good for several hundred dollars.
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 01:24:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 10/13/25 15:05, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:24:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Most USA cars, you can easily get to, replace, things like brake
drums/discs/bearings without getting more extreme. But not
EVERYBODY thought that way.
Yeah, sure... When the master cylinder on my '51 Chevy failed it
became obvious that the cylinder had been bolted to the frame before
the body was added. There was a small plate to allow replacing fluid
but no provision for R&R.
Hey, 1951 ....
Drill the bolts and proceed.
Yeah, a '51 introduced me to interesting technology like kingpin reamers. otoh I paid $35 for it and had a lot of fun in the car. Can't beat that
old straight 6.
My family had a new '51 when we drove across country. In her version of a pilot's automatic rough she would start worrying about the tappets in the middle of Wyoming. I'm not sure she even knew what a tappet was. Before hydraulic lifters a noisy valve train was a happy valve train but with her wolf's ear every click portended disaster.
On 14/10/2025 09:04, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-14 07:24, c186282 wrote:Not if its made of *plastic*.
On 10/13/25 15:05, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:24:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Most USA cars, you can easily get to, replace, things like brake >>>>> drums/discs/bearings without getting more extreme. But not
EVERYBODY
thought that way.
Yeah, sure... When the master cylinder on my '51 Chevy failed it
became
obvious that the cylinder had been bolted to the frame before the
body was
added. There was a small plate to allow replacing fluid but no
provision
for R&R.
Hey, 1951 ....
Drill the bolts and proceed.
I'm one of those strange people who looks under the hood when buying a >>>> car. I like to identify everything that may need maintenance and
make sure
it's accessible.
THESE days ??? They INTENTIONALLY hide everything.
These days what breaks are the electronic sensors. Mechanical is
eternal, almost :-)
Inlet manifolds made of plastic at a $600 replacement cost? Who, ever,
broke a cast inlet manifold back in the day?...
Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Engines that destroy themselves in a manufacturer's attempt to get
better gas mileage or emissions?
The cars are designed to last the warranty period and then be too
expensive to be worth fixing.
On 2025-10-14 11:04, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/10/2025 09:04, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-14 07:24, c186282 wrote:Not if its made of *plastic*.
On 10/13/25 15:05, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 03:24:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Most USA cars, you can easily get to, replace, things like brake >>>>>> drums/discs/bearings without getting more extreme. But not >>>>>> EVERYBODY
thought that way.
Yeah, sure... When the master cylinder on my '51 Chevy failed it >>>>> became
obvious that the cylinder had been bolted to the frame before the
body was
added. There was a small plate to allow replacing fluid but no
provision
for R&R.
Hey, 1951 ....
Drill the bolts and proceed.
I'm one of those strange people who looks under the hood when buying a >>>>> car. I like to identify everything that may need maintenance and
make sure
it's accessible.
THESE days ??? They INTENTIONALLY hide everything.
These days what breaks are the electronic sensors. Mechanical is
eternal, almost :-)
Hum. Yes. I repaired a radiator fan attachment part to the car body,
with epoxy resin with a fibre glass filling. The mechanic said *he*
could not do that (because he could not guarantee the repair for the mandatory time), but me, sure, fine. The repair did hold till the car
was recycled.
Inlet manifolds made of plastic at a $600 replacement cost? Who, ever,
broke a cast inlet manifold back in the day?...
Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Some are submerged in oil and break earlier. They decompose, clog the
oil filter with debris, and the engine is totalled because of oil
failure. Who was the idiot that thought submerging a rubber belt in oil
was a good idea?
Engines that destroy themselves in a manufacturer's attempt to get
better gas mileage or emissions?
The cars are designed to last the warranty period and then be too
expensive to be worth fixing.
I wish the inspection stations were still around. Most modern cars
would fail due to overly-bright headlights aimed too high. (Gotta dazzle
the oncoming traffic, doncha know - the car ads say it's cool.) When we cross the border into Washington I notice that headlights down there
aren't nearly as obnoxious. In fact, the last time I bought a
replacement headlamp I noticed that a number of them were marked "Legal
in Canada and Mexico only". Apparently this is something the States got right.
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 23:31:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I wish the inspection stations were still around. Most modern cars
would fail due to overly-bright headlights aimed too high. (Gotta dazzle
the oncoming traffic, doncha know - the car ads say it's cool.) When we
cross the border into Washington I notice that headlights down there
aren't nearly as obnoxious. In fact, the last time I bought a
replacement headlamp I noticed that a number of them were marked "Legal
in Canada and Mexico only". Apparently this is something the States got
right.
The HID systems are really annoying to say nothing of pickups with
headlights at eye level if you're in a passenger car. I had cataracts
removed from both eyes last year. Prior to that I was mostly flying blind with oncoming headlights.
I'm not big on gadgetry and my Toyota doesn't have remote entry, lane keeping, and all that but one thing it does have is automatic headlight dimming. In almost all cases it dims the lights when I would manually
either overtaking or approaching. One quirk is a 20 mph curve on my way
home that has a lot of reflective signage that will trigger dimming.
iirc Cadillac had something like that about 50 years ago that didn't work very well. I assume this system has more intelligence and better sensors.
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 10:04:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Like timing chains never failed... One difference was there were few interference engines.
Ya know, with modern 3-D metal printing, somebody ought
to sell one-off duplicates for almost every part for
old cars. All they need are the original dimensions.
Heat-treated parts, not that many in old vehicles,
would be more of a challenge.
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 12:45:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-14 12:32, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 14/10/2025 11:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Well you are supposed to *change* them, and the oil they run in,Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Some are submerged in oil and break earlier. They decompose, clog the
oil filter with debris, and the engine is totalled because of oil
failure. Who was the idiot that thought submerging a rubber belt in
oil was a good idea?
regularly...
Even if you do, they break way before their due time.
It is a known issue, well published.
So far that seems to be mostly a European thing.
We used to have vehicle inspection stations here in B.C. but the
provincial government shut them down around 1982 as a "cost-saving
measure".
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 23:31:45 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
I wish the inspection stations were still around. Most modern cars
would fail due to overly-bright headlights aimed too high. (Gotta dazzle
the oncoming traffic, doncha know - the car ads say it's cool.) When we
cross the border into Washington I notice that headlights down there
aren't nearly as obnoxious. In fact, the last time I bought a
replacement headlamp I noticed that a number of them were marked "Legal
in Canada and Mexico only". Apparently this is something the States got
right.
The HID systems are really annoying to say nothing of pickups with headlights at eye level if you're in a passenger car. I had cataracts removed from both eyes last year. Prior to that I was mostly flying blind with oncoming headlights.
I'm not big on gadgetry and my Toyota doesn't have remote entry, lane keeping, and all that but one thing it does have is automatic headlight dimming. In almost all cases it dims the lights when I would manually
either overtaking or approaching. One quirk is a 20 mph curve on my way
home that has a lot of reflective signage that will trigger dimming.
iirc Cadillac had something like that about 50 years ago that didn't work very well. I assume this system has more intelligence and better sensors.
Interesting. But it's one more gadget I don't need. I don't find it
that big a hardship to dim my own headlights. The one gadget I've
wanted for years - and it wouldn't be difficult to implement - is turn signals that automatically cancel after 30 seconds if the car is in
motion.
Or at least click loudly enough to be heard, possibly with a loud alarm
after that 30 seconds.
On 14/10/2025 20:12, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 10:04:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Like timing chains never failed... One difference was there were few
interference engines.
Timing chains rattled like SOBs long before they failed
On 15/10/2025 02:06, c186282 wrote:
Ya know, with modern 3-D metal printing, somebody ought
to sell one-off duplicates for almost every part for
old cars. All they need are the original dimensions.
Heat-treated parts, not that many in old vehicles,
would be more of a challenge.
In the UK every part is available for 1970s era MGBs and the old Austin Healy Sprite, and you can build a brand new one.
As long as you have the paperwork to say its really 50 years old, and so avoid emissions limits
On 2025-10-15, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 14/10/2025 20:12, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 14 Oct 2025 10:04:57 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Composite timing belts that snap every 100,000 miles...
Like timing chains never failed... One difference was there were few
interference engines.
Timing chains rattled like SOBs long before they failed
Not on a particular small-block Ford 351 (Windsor IIRC, but I
might be wrong about that) in a 1970 Galaxy 500. The engine
sounded fine until the second I punched it to get into a better
place to make a lane change on the freeway at one point during
the latter 1980s while on vacation about 800 miles from home.
Thankfully, momentum allowed me to get over onto the slow-side
shoulder, and I wasn't a hundred yards further along, where there
would have been zero shoulder. In theory, the engine was
non-interfering, but the event did something bad to one or more
of the driver's side valves--requiring a one-side valve job after
replacing the timing chain.
1990 on, the ENGINES - the basic stuff - DID get much better. 1950s
cars had a useful life of well under 100,000 miles - even assuming
you did a couple of rebuilds. Of course in 1950 people didn't travel
very far - and new cars were pretty cheap.
On 10/15/25 06:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 15/10/2025 02:06, c186282 wrote:
Ya know, with modern 3-D metal printing, somebody ought
to sell one-off duplicates for almost every part for
old cars. All they need are the original dimensions.
Heat-treated parts, not that many in old vehicles,
would be more of a challenge.
In the UK every part is available for 1970s era MGBs and the old
Austin Healy Sprite, and you can build a brand new one.
As long as you have the paperwork to say its really 50 years old, and
so avoid emissions limits
USA has no qualms about "how old".
Too bad you live in a totalitarian country.
Parts for vehicles maybe 1920 on CAN still
be had. The problem is locating them and
the PRICE. Of course "enthusiasts" care
little for that.
1990 on, the ENGINES - the basic stuff - DID
get much better. 1950s cars had a useful life
of well under 100,000 miles - even assuming you
did a couple of rebuilds. Of course in 1950
people didn't travel very far - and new cars
were pretty cheap.
So, in any case, I suggest the mentioned
3-D to-order fab as a viable business model.
So long as you have the specs you can build
compatible parts (esp if iron). Print, a
little polishing, sell. As said, the
enthusiasts WILL pay to keep that '47 Chevy
truck running.
I have no intention or will to START such
a fab business - so I donate the idea. It
is completely possible to do these days.
On Wed, 15 Oct 2025 16:57:01 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Interesting. But it's one more gadget I don't need. I don't find it
that big a hardship to dim my own headlights. The one gadget I've
wanted for years - and it wouldn't be difficult to implement - is turn
signals that automatically cancel after 30 seconds if the car is in
motion.
Or at least click loudly enough to be heard, possibly with a loud alarm
after that 30 seconds.
You mean if you don't actually turn? There's one intersection where I
have to be careful. It's more of a branch left and depending on my actual path the signal resets or doesn't.
The bikes require reprogramming my brain too. The Harley turn signals
cancel automatically. With both Suzukis it's a mechanical switch and they will stay on forever, even after stopping and restarting the bike.
Oh, that's a tricky one. Thank goodness major issues like the placement
of clutch and brake pedals has been standardized...
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:43:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Oh, that's a tricky one. Thank goodness major issues like the placement
of clutch and brake pedals has been standardized...
iirc early Brit bikes had the shifter on the right. Of course.
On 10/16/25 11:59, rbowman wrote:from
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:43:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Oh, that's a tricky one. Thank goodness major issues like the
placement of clutch and brake pedals has been standardized...
iirc early Brit bikes had the shifter on the right. Of course.
To the best of my recollection you are correct and I had problems
moving from my Allstate Twingle 175 cc 2 cycle, made in Austria by Puck, Steyr Daimler to my BSA Single 4 stroke iron head single 500 cc and got
a ticket as a result of trying to stop with the shifter instead of the
brake pedal.
I was a different person in my youth as most of us are.
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 13:43:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 10/16/25 11:59, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:43:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Oh, that's a tricky one. Thank goodness major issues like the
placement of clutch and brake pedals has been standardized...
iirc early Brit bikes had the shifter on the right. Of course.
To the best of my recollection you are correct and I had
problems from moving from my Allstate Twingle 175 cc 2 cycle,
made in Austria by Puck, Steyr Daimler to my BSA Single 4
stroke iron head single 500 cc and got a ticket as a result of
trying to stop with the shifter instead of the brake pedal.
I was a different person in my youth as most of us are.
Still riding. Some year I'll have to park the bikes but not this
year. I seldom use the foot pedal anymore since front disks
became so effective. My first bike was a '55 Harley with a
cable operated drum brake in front. That needed all the help it
could get to stop. It was so ineffective you didn't get much
weight transfer so there wasn't much danger of locking up the
rear.
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 13:43:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 10/16/25 11:59, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:43:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Oh, that's a tricky one. Thank goodness major issues like the
placement of clutch and brake pedals has been standardized...
iirc early Brit bikes had the shifter on the right. Of course.
My road bike has shifters on both sides. And they double as
brakes.
To the best of my recollection you are correct and I had
problems from moving from my Allstate Twingle 175 cc 2 cycle,
made in Austria by Puck, Steyr Daimler to my BSA Single 4
stroke iron head single 500 cc and got a ticket as a result of
trying to stop with the shifter instead of the brake pedal.
I was a different person in my youth as most of us are.
Still riding. Some year I'll have to park the bikes but not this
year. I seldom use the foot pedal anymore since front disks
became so effective. My first bike was a '55 Harley with a
cable operated drum brake in front. That needed all the help it
could get to stop. It was so ineffective you didn't get much
weight transfer so there wasn't much danger of locking up the
rear.
On a road bike you have to be careful about using the front brake.
Those disk brakes can get pretty grabby.
On a road bike you have to be careful about using the front brake.
Those disk brakes can get pretty grabby.
On 10/17/25 12:58, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:Austria
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 13:43:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 10/16/25 11:59, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:43:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Oh, that's a tricky one. Thank goodness major issues like the
placement of clutch and brake pedals has been standardized...
iirc early Brit bikes had the shifter on the right. Of course.
My road bike has shifters on both sides. And they double as brakes.
To the best of my recollection you are correct and I had problems
from moving from my Allstate Twingle 175 cc 2 cycle, made in
Disk brakes are less grabby than rim brakes, they tend to offer moreby Puck, Steyr Daimler to my BSA Single 4 stroke iron head single
500 cc and got a ticket as a result of trying to stop with the
shifter instead of the brake pedal.
I was a different person in my youth as most of us are.
Still riding. Some year I'll have to park the bikes but not this year.
I seldom use the foot pedal anymore since front disks became so
effective. My first bike was a '55 Harley with a cable operated drum
brake in front. That needed all the help it could get to stop. It was
so ineffective you didn't get much weight transfer so there wasn't
much danger of locking up the rear.
On a road bike you have to be careful about using the front brake.
Those disk brakes can get pretty grabby.
even retarding force than rim brakes. I think they call it better
modulation.
My perception is that prior to disk brakes, rim brakes had also got a
lot better. Better than from when I was a kid. Steel rim brakes were
very problematic.
On 16/10/2025 06:00, c186282 wrote:
On 10/15/25 06:59, The Natural Philosopher wrote:It is a very densely populated country and car exhaust pollution is a
On 15/10/2025 02:06, c186282 wrote:
Ya know, with modern 3-D metal printing, somebody ought
to sell one-off duplicates for almost every part for
old cars. All they need are the original dimensions.
Heat-treated parts, not that many in old vehicles,
would be more of a challenge.
In the UK every part is available for 1970s era MGBs and the old
Austin Healy Sprite, and you can build a brand new one.
As long as you have the paperwork to say its really 50 years old, and
so avoid emissions limits
USA has no qualms about "how old".
Too bad you live in a totalitarian country.
major issue.
California piloted the use of fuel injection and catalytic converters
and eventually the EU legislation caught up.
So cars with high pollution (carburettors, no catalysts )are banned
unless they are so old they count as 'classics' .
Parts for vehicles maybe 1920 on CAN stillAnything can be re-manufactured for a price...3D printing is excellent
be had. The problem is locating them and
the PRICE. Of course "enthusiasts" care
little for that.
for simple little plastic parts.
No one really makes carburettors for cars any more but they can be reconditioned
1990 on, the ENGINES - the basic stuff - DIDlol
get much better. 1950s cars had a useful life
of well under 100,000 miles - even assuming you
did a couple of rebuilds. Of course in 1950
people didn't travel very far - and new cars
were pretty cheap.
So, in any case, I suggest the mentioned
3-D to-order fab as a viable business model.
So long as you have the specs you can build
compatible parts (esp if iron). Print, a
little polishing, sell. As said, the
enthusiasts WILL pay to keep that '47 Chevy
truck running.
I have no intention or will to START suchActually multi-axis CNC milling machines are good for short runs.
a fab business - so I donate the idea. It
is completely possible to do these days.
Sand casting from 3D printed masters is possible
Forged items are more a problem, as is pressed steel. You need big kit
and expensive moulds to do those
On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 17:38:04 +0100, Pancho wrote:
On 10/17/25 12:58, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:Austria
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 13:43:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 10/16/25 11:59, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:43:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Oh, that's a tricky one. Thank goodness major issues like the
placement of clutch and brake pedals has been standardized...
iirc early Brit bikes had the shifter on the right. Of course.
My road bike has shifters on both sides. And they double as brakes.
To the best of my recollection you are correct and I had problems
from moving from my Allstate Twingle 175 cc 2 cycle, made in
Disk brakes are less grabby than rim brakes, they tend to offer moreby Puck, Steyr Daimler to my BSA Single 4 stroke iron head single
500 cc and got a ticket as a result of trying to stop with the
shifter instead of the brake pedal.
I was a different person in my youth as most of us are.
Still riding. Some year I'll have to park the bikes but not this year. >>>> I seldom use the foot pedal anymore since front disks became so
effective. My first bike was a '55 Harley with a cable operated drum
brake in front. That needed all the help it could get to stop. It was >>>> so ineffective you didn't get much weight transfer so there wasn't
much danger of locking up the rear.
On a road bike you have to be careful about using the front brake.
Those disk brakes can get pretty grabby.
even retarding force than rim brakes. I think they call it better
modulation.
My perception is that prior to disk brakes, rim brakes had also got a
lot better. Better than from when I was a kid. Steel rim brakes were
very problematic.
Are we talking about motorcycles or bicycles? I have one bicycle with a
disk brake and I haven't noticed it grabbing.
otoh with rim brakes I once--
blew a tube on a long descent when the rim was too hot to touch. At least with a disk you don't have that problem.
I read 'road bike' as opposed to 'dirt bike' as a motorcycle.
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 17:38:04 +0100, Pancho wrote:
On 10/17/25 12:58, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:Austria
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 13:43:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 10/16/25 11:59, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:43:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Oh, that's a tricky one. Thank goodness major issues like the >>>>>>>> placement of clutch and brake pedals has been standardized...
iirc early Brit bikes had the shifter on the right. Of course.
My road bike has shifters on both sides. And they double as brakes.
To the best of my recollection you are correct and I had problems >>>>>> from moving from my Allstate Twingle 175 cc 2 cycle, made in
Disk brakes are less grabby than rim brakes, they tend to offer moreby Puck, Steyr Daimler to my BSA Single 4 stroke iron head single >>>>>> 500 cc and got a ticket as a result of trying to stop with the
shifter instead of the brake pedal.
I was a different person in my youth as most of us are.
Still riding. Some year I'll have to park the bikes but not this year. >>>>> I seldom use the foot pedal anymore since front disks became so
effective. My first bike was a '55 Harley with a cable operated drum >>>>> brake in front. That needed all the help it could get to stop. It was >>>>> so ineffective you didn't get much weight transfer so there wasn't
much danger of locking up the rear.
On a road bike you have to be careful about using the front brake.
Those disk brakes can get pretty grabby.
even retarding force than rim brakes. I think they call it better
modulation.
My perception is that prior to disk brakes, rim brakes had also got a
lot better. Better than from when I was a kid. Steel rim brakes were
very problematic.
Are we talking about motorcycles or bicycles? I have one bicycle with a
disk brake and I haven't noticed it grabbing.
Riding in a park downhill I suddenly came upon a doe and her fawn.
The disk brakes grabbed hard enough to make me skid and the rear
tire moved sideways.
otoh with rim brakes I once
blew a tube on a long descent when the rim was too hot to touch. At least
with a disk you don't have that problem.
I read 'road bike' as opposed to 'dirt bike' as a motorcycle.
Riding in a park downhill I suddenly came upon a doe and her fawn.
The disk brakes grabbed hard enough to make me skid and the rear tire
moved sideways.
On Sat, 18 Oct 2025 08:53:43 -0400, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:
Riding in a park downhill I suddenly came upon a doe and her fawn.
The disk brakes grabbed hard enough to make me skid and the rear tire
moved sideways.
The Motorcycle Safety Foundation offers several courses. One of the
exercises is learning to control a rear wheel skid in a simulated panic
stop. Assuming the front brake is effective the weight transfer is going
to leave the rear tire very light. It doesn't take much to lock it up and have it move sideways.
You get the same effect in four wheel vehicles but the braking systems usually are designed to minimize the problem. After a camping trip in Vermont's Green Mountains I got back to the trail head, threw my stuff in
the pickup rapidly since it was raining, and headed off down the road. In
my absence a porcupine had chewed through a front brake hose and a heater hose. The first thing I noticed was the rear brakes on a F150 don't do
much to slow you down. Then the steam started. I could fix the cooling
system but getting down the mountain with minimal brakes was fun.
That must be the reason some cars have pipes with a wire mesh wrap
On Fri, 17 Oct 2025 17:38:04 +0100, Pancho wrote:
On 10/17/25 12:58, Chris Ahlstrom wrote:Austria
rbowman wrote this post while blinking in Morse code:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 13:43:22 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 10/16/25 11:59, rbowman wrote:
On Thu, 16 Oct 2025 18:43:54 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Oh, that's a tricky one. Thank goodness major issues like the
placement of clutch and brake pedals has been standardized...
iirc early Brit bikes had the shifter on the right. Of course.
My road bike has shifters on both sides. And they double as brakes.
To the best of my recollection you are correct and I had problems
from moving from my Allstate Twingle 175 cc 2 cycle, made in
Disk brakes are less grabby than rim brakes, they tend to offer moreby Puck, Steyr Daimler to my BSA Single 4 stroke iron head single
500 cc and got a ticket as a result of trying to stop with the
shifter instead of the brake pedal.
I was a different person in my youth as most of us are.
Still riding. Some year I'll have to park the bikes but not this year. >>>> I seldom use the foot pedal anymore since front disks became so
effective. My first bike was a '55 Harley with a cable operated drum
brake in front. That needed all the help it could get to stop. It was >>>> so ineffective you didn't get much weight transfer so there wasn't
much danger of locking up the rear.
On a road bike you have to be careful about using the front brake.
Those disk brakes can get pretty grabby.
even retarding force than rim brakes. I think they call it better
modulation.
My perception is that prior to disk brakes, rim brakes had also got a
lot better. Better than from when I was a kid. Steel rim brakes were
very problematic.
Are we talking about motorcycles or bicycles? I have one bicycle with a
disk brake and I haven't noticed it grabbing. otoh with rim brakes I once blew a tube on a long descent when the rim was too hot to touch. At least with a disk you don't have that problem.
I read 'road bike' as opposed to 'dirt bike' as a motorcycle.
One thing that has always puzzled me about sporty motorcycles is, why do they have two disk brakes on the front wheel. One per wheel is enough
for my much heavier car.
On Sat, 18 Oct 2025 22:55:43 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
That must be the reason some cars have pipes with a wire mesh wrap
That might deter a porcupine but they would just eat something else. In
the northeast salt is commonly used on the roads in the winter so most vehicles have residue and porkies love salt. They will chew on tool
handles, outhouse seats, or anything else with salt. Some of the summer
camps in the Adirondacks started building plywood rowboats for the guests. The glue apparently has some form of sodium so the porcupines would delaminate the boats over the winter. The North American version is an excellent climber so it's hard to keep anything out of their reach.
Yeah, sorry, I take road bike to mean a pedal bicycle. Disk brakes are relatively recent for pedal bicycles, whereas motorcycles have had disk brakes for decades. (I guess they had drum brakes before?) So I assumed
pedal bicycle.
One thing that has always puzzled me about sporty motorcycles is, why do
they have two disk brakes on the front wheel. One per wheel is enough
for my much heavier car.
On 19/10/2025 08:41, Pancho wrote:
One thing that has always puzzled me about sporty motorcycles is, why
do they have two disk brakes on the front wheel. One per wheel is
enough for my much heavier car.
Do you spend your entire time braking from high speed every 15 seconds?
I was doing about 110mph (before speed cameras were everywhere) when I
saw a stopped car ahead. By the time I was at 15mph the brakes had
completely gone.
There was just enough left to stop...
Twin disks have more capacity to absorb heat in a smaller volume.
On Sun, 19 Oct 2025 08:41:29 +0100, Pancho wrote:
Yeah, sorry, I take road bike to mean a pedal bicycle. Disk brakes are
relatively recent for pedal bicycles, whereas motorcycles have had disk
brakes for decades. (I guess they had drum brakes before?) So I assumed
pedal bicycle.
One of my bicycles has a disk brake on the front wheel. It's mechanically operated although I think there are hydraulic versions. My first
motorcycle was a '55 Harley which had mechanically operated drum brakes
front and rear.
The Honda CB750 was the first popular motorcycle to use a front disk. For
'69 it was a superbike. The rear was a drum. I don't know when the
transition was mostly complete. I had a '82 Yamaha with a front disk and mechanically operated drum on the rear. About 70% of the braking is done
with the front wheel so the rear wasn't a priority. Also, the forward
weight transfer during hard braking meant you couldn't use much rear
braking. I tend to only use the brake for trailing braking in a corner. My '98 Harley, '03 Suzuki DR650 and '08 DL650 are disk on both ends.
One thing that has always puzzled me about sporty motorcycles is, why do
they have two disk brakes on the front wheel. One per wheel is enough
for my much heavier car.
Posers? Many are race replicas and when you're repeatedly slowing down
from 160 mph more is better. Of course most bike riders don't do 160 or at least not for very long, so a lot is probably style. The Harley and the
DR650 might make it to 100 sooner or later with a tailwind and have single disks. The DL650 will do 125 and has duals.
The DL650 might have been influenced by its sibling, the SV650. That one
is popular for racing. The DL650 has the same engine but it's configured
to be less peaky. Perhaps the front fork assembly is also shared.
On 19/10/2025 08:41, Pancho wrote:
One thing that has always puzzled me about sporty motorcycles is, why
do they have two disk brakes on the front wheel. One per wheel is
enough for my much heavier car.
Do you spend your entire time braking from high speed every 15 seconds?
I was doing about 110mph (before speed cameras were everywhere) when I
saw a stopped car ahead. By the time I was at 15mph the brakes had completely gone.
There was just enough left to stop...
Twin disks have more capacity to absorb heat in a smaller volume.
Did own a Kawi Vulcan 750 once. It also had dual front brakes. You
had to be CAREFUL or you'd hurl yourself over the handlebars - the
thing would stop QUICK.
Topic drift. All of my motorcyles were Road Bikes as opposed to Off-Road or Dirt
BIkes.
Unless Harley's have gotten a lot lighter than in my day, 1958they
could use
Dual disks.
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 00:23:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Did own a Kawi Vulcan 750 once. It also had dual front brakes. You
had to be CAREFUL or you'd hurl yourself over the handlebars - the
thing would stop QUICK.
Stoppies are an art form that I'd rather not perfect. I avoid wheelies
too. The DR650 was prone to them if you weren't careful. It's a 650 cc thumper so it's no powerhouse but 1st is a bit low. I went up a tooth on
the front sprocket to get something more suitable for mostly road riding.
On 10/19/25 06:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/10/2025 08:41, Pancho wrote:
One thing that has always puzzled me about sporty motorcycles is, why
do they have two disk brakes on the front wheel. One per wheel is
enough for my much heavier car.
Do you spend your entire time braking from high speed every 15 seconds?
I was doing about 110mph (before speed cameras were everywhere) when I
saw a stopped car ahead. By the time I was at 15mph the brakes had
completely gone.
There was just enough left to stop...
Twin disks have more capacity to absorb heat in a smaller volume.
I'll agree that "sport bike" enthusiasts always
push it - fast acceleration, then fast braking -
over and over and over. Great thrill I suppose.
As such 'excessive' braking capability is not
really 'excessive'.
Did own a Kawi Vulcan 750 once. It also had dual
front brakes. You had to be CAREFUL or you'd hurl
yourself over the handlebars - the thing would
stop QUICK. Actually caused issues with a state
MC license referee, you were supposed to start
braking at line 'A' and then stop by line 'B',
but the bike would stop like a foot beyond 'A'.
Had to CHEAT the braking maneuver test, do it
just with the rear brake :-)
Hmmmm ... envision ... 2-lane rural road out
in the sticks. 18-wheeler tries to pass a few
vehicles, including my MC. But - ONCOMING
18-wheelers and the parallel truck does not
have the power to pull ahead. Look, see, look
again ... drop into 3rd and PUNCH the damned
thing to the max.
Power CAN save yer ass.
On Sun, 19 Oct 2025 14:24:42 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
Topic drift. All of my motorcyles were Road Bikes as opposed to
Off-Road or Dirt
BIkes.
All my bikes tended to be off road as required. After I bought the
Sportster I went on a camping trip. The road into the Highwoods is about
30 miles of gravel. No problem. The road out the other side is also gravel but fords the same damn creek 5 times. I didn't know how I would explain dropping a new Harley in the middle of a creek 30 miles from pavement. It actually crossed the fords with less drama that the DR650 with knobbies. I did get a very strange look from a Forest Service rangerette who passed me going the other way. Then there was the episode of a little cow herding
since it's the land of many abuses after all.
The DR650 is an actual dual sport. The DL650 is an 'adventure' bike
although it prefers not to get to adventuresome.
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 00:23:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Did own a Kawi Vulcan 750 once. It also had dual front brakes. You
had to be CAREFUL or you'd hurl yourself over the handlebars - the
thing would stop QUICK.
Stoppies are an art form that I'd rather not perfect. I avoid wheelies
too. The DR650 was prone to them if you weren't careful. It's a 650 cc thumper so it's no powerhouse but 1st is a bit low. I went up a tooth on
the front sprocket to get something more suitable for mostly road riding.
On 2025-10-20 06:23, c186282 wrote:
On 10/19/25 06:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/10/2025 08:41, Pancho wrote:
One thing that has always puzzled me about sporty motorcycles is, why
do they have two disk brakes on the front wheel. One per wheel is
enough for my much heavier car.
Do you spend your entire time braking from high speed every 15
seconds?
I was doing about 110mph (before speed cameras were everywhere) when I
saw a stopped car ahead. By the time I was at 15mph the brakes had
completely gone.
There was just enough left to stop...
Twin disks have more capacity to absorb heat in a smaller volume.
I'll agree that "sport bike" enthusiasts always push it - fast
acceleration, then fast braking - over and over and over. Great
thrill I suppose.
As such 'excessive' braking capability is not really 'excessive'.
Did own a Kawi Vulcan 750 once. It also had dual front brakes. You
had to be CAREFUL or you'd hurl yourself over the handlebars - the
thing would stop QUICK. Actually caused issues with a state MC
license referee, you were supposed to start braking at line 'A' and
then stop by line 'B', but the bike would stop like a foot beyond
'A'. Had to CHEAT the braking maneuver test, do it just with the
rear brake :-)
What was that test? :-?
Google AI says: «An "MC license" can refer to a Multi-Combination (MC) license for driving very large vehicles with multiple trailers, or a motorcycle (MC) license for riding motorcycles. An MC license for heavy vehicles is a high-level license for driving B-doubles or road trains,
while a motorcycle license is for riding bikes and has different classes based on engine size and power. »
Once I was working for a fortnight on the island of Las Palmas (the Canaries). On the central weekend I rented a small car, a Ford K.
Saturday I went around the entire island "circle". Sunday I crossed
east-west through the middle. The road started as a dual lane highway
for each direction, and finished as a dirt road down a high mountain. No going back when I found out.
But you can see in the map that the east of the island has many roads,
and the west doesn't. Also, all gas stations were closed on the west
side going back to the hotel. I wasn't sure I could get back.
ALMOST bought the Triumph 3-cyl Rocket-III,
surprisingly light with a low CG ... but never did it. The orig
models had a too- small thrust bearing that tended to fail badly.
In this and most states it's an endorsement on a regular driver's license. I've always had a DL and don't know if there are motorcycle only licenses.
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 10:48:45 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Once I was working for a fortnight on the island of Las Palmas (the
Canaries). On the central weekend I rented a small car, a Ford K.
Saturday I went around the entire island "circle". Sunday I crossed
east-west through the middle. The road started as a dual lane highway
for each direction, and finished as a dirt road down a high mountain. No
going back when I found out.
There are quite a few roads like that here. The problem is they are not maintained in the winter. People take the 'shortcut', hit a section of unplowed road, and continue on, thinking it will get better. It doesn't,
they get hopelessly stuck, find there is no cell coverage, and if they're really unlucky, die. Following a GPS requires a little common sense.
But you can see in the map that the east of the island has many roads,
and the west doesn't. Also, all gas stations were closed on the west
side going back to the hotel. I wasn't sure I could get back.
Self service gas stations have been a vast improvement. I've slept in the
car more than once waiting for the gas station to reopen in the morning. I put an aftermarket tank on the DR650 instead of the stock 3.4 gallon.
There are back roads between here and Idaho where you pass the point of no return with the stock tank and have to continue into Idaho to find gas.
Many out of state bike riders aren't ready for infrequent gas stations and spotty cell phone coverage.
On 2025-10-20 06:23, c186282 wrote:
On 10/19/25 06:15, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 19/10/2025 08:41, Pancho wrote:
One thing that has always puzzled me about sporty motorcycles is,
why do they have two disk brakes on the front wheel. One per wheel
is enough for my much heavier car.
Do you spend your entire time braking from high speed every 15 seconds?
I was doing about 110mph (before speed cameras were everywhere) when
I saw a stopped car ahead. By the time I was at 15mph the brakes had
completely gone.
There was just enough left to stop...
Twin disks have more capacity to absorb heat in a smaller volume.
I'll agree that "sport bike" enthusiasts always
push it - fast acceleration, then fast braking -
over and over and over. Great thrill I suppose.
As such 'excessive' braking capability is not
really 'excessive'.
Did own a Kawi Vulcan 750 once. It also had dual
front brakes. You had to be CAREFUL or you'd hurl
yourself over the handlebars - the thing would
stop QUICK. Actually caused issues with a state
MC license referee, you were supposed to start
braking at line 'A' and then stop by line 'B',
but the bike would stop like a foot beyond 'A'.
Had to CHEAT the braking maneuver test, do it
just with the rear brake :-)
What was that test? :-?
Google AI says: «An "MC license" can refer to
a Multi-Combination (MC) license for driving very large vehicles with multiple trailers, or a motorcycle (MC) license for riding motorcycles.
An MC license for heavy vehicles is a high-level license for driving B- doubles or road trains, while a motorcycle license is for riding bikes
and has different classes based on engine size and power. »
On 2025-10-20 09:32, c186282 wrote:
...
Hmmmm ... envision ... 2-lane rural road out
in the sticks. 18-wheeler tries to pass a few
vehicles, including my MC. But - ONCOMING
18-wheelers and the parallel truck does not
have the power to pull ahead. Look, see, look
again ... drop into 3rd and PUNCH the damned
thing to the max.
Power CAN save yer ass.
Yes...
My current car is a gasoline Corsa. My previous one was a diesel Corsa. Basically the same nominal power. But the diesel accelerated faster,
because it had a turbo... I moaned a bit, but the garage says to shut
up, it is cheaper to maintain without a turbo.
On 10/19/25 22:44, rbowman wrote:something
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 00:23:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Did own a Kawi Vulcan 750 once. It also had dual front brakes. You
had to be CAREFUL or you'd hurl yourself over the handlebars - the
thing would stop QUICK.
Stoppies are an art form that I'd rather not perfect. I avoid wheelies
too. The DR650 was prone to them if you weren't careful. It's a 650 cc
thumper so it's no powerhouse but 1st is a bit low. I went up a tooth
on the front sprocket to get something more suitable for mostly road
riding.
Wheelies are a stunt. Stopping quickly or slowing to avoid
in the road like a car or other motorcycle out of control is a easily
learned skill for the survival of one's self and sometimes other folks.
Some modern machines I imagine have anti-lock breaking built-in.
No GPS back then, just paper maps. And the one I had was not good enough
to know there was a dirt road in the route.
Back in my teens I had a small motorbike. My licence said "motorcycles
only" in the restrictions section. A year later when I got my
automobile licence its restrictions section said "Not permitted to drive motorcycles". If asked for a licence,
I would present whichever one covered what I was driving. Five years
later, when I was up for renewal, I got a single licence that was good
for both.
On 2025-10-20, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
In this and most states it's an endorsement on a regular driver's license. >> I've always had a DL and don't know if there are motorcycle only licenses.
Back in my teens I had a small motorbike. My licence said
"motorcycles only" in the restrictions section. A year later
when I got my automobile licence its restrictions section said
"Not permitted to drive motorcycles". If asked for a licence,
I would present whichever one covered what I was driving.
Five years later, when I was up for renewal, I got a single
licence that was good for both.
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 11:53:26 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 10/19/25 22:44, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 00:23:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Did own a Kawi Vulcan 750 once. It also had dual front brakes. You >>>> had to be CAREFUL or you'd hurl yourself over the handlebars - the >>>> thing would stop QUICK.
Stoppies are an art form that I'd rather not perfect. I avoid wheelies
too. The DR650 was prone to them if you weren't careful. It's a 650 cc
thumper so it's no powerhouse but 1st is a bit low. I went up a tooth
on the front sprocket to get something more suitable for mostly road
riding.
Wheelies are a stunt. Stopping quickly or slowing to avoid
something
in the road like a car or other motorcycle out of control is a easily
learned skill for the survival of one's self and sometimes other folks.
Stoppies are a stunt too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwlvCgNHbTc
Then there are the real crazies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY1l_JpT9NA
The Harley dealer had an open house with a guy putting on freestyle exhibitions. I got a chance to talk to him and asked how you get into some
of the stunts. I mean there is no 'that almost worked'. There has to be a
lot of moments like the first kid in the video. He mentioned a lot of hospital time.
Some modern machines I imagine have anti-lock breaking built-in.
It's been around for a while. I don't know if they were the first but
Honda had a combined brake system. It was sort of like a car. Either the handbrake or the foot brake applied both the front and rear brakes and
they were balanced. It wasn't well received. Many of Honda's user friendly innovations haven't went over well. The Pacific Coast was extremely
practical with a trunk but never took off. There is a certain 'toxic masculinity' associated with bikes.
afaik BMW was the first to try ABS and it's been standard across the line
for about 10 years. The hand lever does do a little rear braking but the
foot pedal is just the rear. I'd looked at the BMW F650 before I bought
the DR650 and ABS was optional. Nice bike but being a BMW not the easiest thing to work on. It was also pricier than the DR650 and the Kaw KLR650.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 01:02:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No GPS back then, just paper maps. And the one I had was not good enough
to know there was a dirt road in the route.
On a family vacation to Nova Scotia I found a likely looking road on the
map. It was about the same deal. NS is an island with all the towns on the shore and nothing in the middle. After the pavement ran out and the dirt
road became narrower and narrower my mother vetoed my trip planning and we turned around. No sense of adventure. There were plenty of dirt roads
where I grew up but she knew where they came out.
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 20:48:35 GMT, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
Back in my teens I had a small motorbike. My licence said "motorcycles
only" in the restrictions section. A year later when I got my
automobile licence its restrictions section said "Not permitted to drive
motorcycles". If asked for a licence,
I would present whichever one covered what I was driving. Five years
later, when I was up for renewal, I got a single licence that was good
for both.
A little googling around and at least Virginia has a separate MC license,
or a license with a '6' means only motorcycles. They also have M1 for two wheels, M2 for three, ans M for both.
In Montana you don't need a motorcycle endorsement for three wheelers or ATVs. Weirdly, ATVs are considered 'quadricycles' and the requirements to
be street legal are minimal. At least one headlight, one taillight, one
brake light, one mirror, and a license plate light. Oh, yeah, and a horn. Gotta have a damn horn. And rubber tires. Your snow machine won't cut it.
There are ill-defined dimensional requirements to prevent someone from registering their kid's mini-atv or mini-bike.
On 10/20/25 20:32, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 11:53:26 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 10/19/25 22:44, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 00:23:19 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Did own a Kawi Vulcan 750 once. It also had dual front brakes. >>>>> You
had to be CAREFUL or you'd hurl yourself over the handlebars - >>>>> the
thing would stop QUICK.
Stoppies are an art form that I'd rather not perfect. I avoid wheelies >>>> too. The DR650 was prone to them if you weren't careful. It's a 650 cc >>>> thumper so it's no powerhouse but 1st is a bit low. I went up a tooth
on the front sprocket to get something more suitable for mostly road
riding.
Wheelies are a stunt. Stopping quickly or slowing to avoid
something
in the road like a car or other motorcycle out of control is a easily
learned skill for the survival of one's self and sometimes other folks.
Stoppies are a stunt too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwlvCgNHbTc
Then there are the real crazies:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KY1l_JpT9NA
The Harley dealer had an open house with a guy putting on freestyle
exhibitions. I got a chance to talk to him and asked how you get into
some
of the stunts. I mean there is no 'that almost worked'. There has to be a
lot of moments like the first kid in the video. He mentioned a lot of
hospital time.
Some modern machines I imagine have anti-lock breaking built-in.
It's been around for a while. I don't know if they were the first but
Honda had a combined brake system. It was sort of like a car. Either the
handbrake or the foot brake applied both the front and rear brakes and
they were balanced. It wasn't well received. Many of Honda's user
friendly
innovations haven't went over well. The Pacific Coast was extremely
practical with a trunk but never took off. There is a certain 'toxic
masculinity' associated with bikes.
I did not care to trust my life to such a system after I had gone to so
much trouble to learn to brake properly. Besides in a short time I
had become
unemployable and incapable for a time of earning any part of a
living. I finally
gave up riding and sold my last mc some time later that was the
Vision 550.
afaik BMW was the first to try ABS and it's been standard across the line
for about 10 years. The hand lever does do a little rear braking but the
foot pedal is just the rear. I'd looked at the BMW F650 before I bought
the DR650 and ABS was optional. Nice bike but being a BMW not the easiest
thing to work on. It was also pricier than the DR650 and the Kaw KLR650.
BMW has to pay those fine German craftmens and skilled mechanics.
So yes it costs a lot more and reveals the extend of the decline of the
once proud American Dollar. In 1972 I paid about $1250 for the mc and
today you would have to come up with at least 10X as much lucre.
On 10/20/25 04:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-20 09:32, c186282 wrote:
...
Hmmmm ... envision ... 2-lane rural road out
in the sticks. 18-wheeler tries to pass a few
vehicles, including my MC. But - ONCOMING
18-wheelers and the parallel truck does not
have the power to pull ahead. Look, see, look
again ... drop into 3rd and PUNCH the damned
thing to the max.
Power CAN save yer ass.
Yes...
My current car is a gasoline Corsa. My previous one was a diesel
Corsa. Basically the same nominal power. But the diesel accelerated
faster, because it had a turbo... I moaned a bit, but the garage says
to shut up, it is cheaper to maintain without a turbo.
Mechanically, true.
But it CAN be fatal to not have that extra power
when critically needed.
On 10/20/25 04:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-20 09:32, c186282 wrote:
...
Hmmmm ... envision ... 2-lane rural road out
in the sticks. 18-wheeler tries to pass a few
vehicles, including my MC. But - ONCOMING
18-wheelers and the parallel truck does not
have the power to pull ahead. Look, see, look
again ... drop into 3rd and PUNCH the damned
thing to the max.
Power CAN save yer ass.
Yes...
My current car is a gasoline Corsa. My previous one was a diesel
Corsa. Basically the same nominal power. But the diesel accelerated
faster, because it had a turbo... I moaned a bit, but the garage says
to shut up, it is cheaper to maintain without a turbo.
Mechanically, true.
But it CAN be fatal to not have that extra power
when critically needed.
BMW has to pay those fine German craftmens and skilled mechanics.of the
So yes it costs a lot more and reveals the extend of the decline
once proud American Dollar. In 1972 I paid about $1250 for the mc and
today you would have to come up with at least 10X as much lucre.
On 10/20/25 23:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 01:02:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No GPS back then, just paper maps. And the one I had was not good enough >>> to know there was a dirt road in the route.
On a family vacation to Nova Scotia I found a likely looking road on the
map. It was about the same deal. NS is an island with all the towns on
the
shore and nothing in the middle. After the pavement ran out and the dirt
road became narrower and narrower my mother vetoed my trip planning
and we
turned around. No sense of adventure. There were plenty of dirt roads
where I grew up but she knew where they came out.
I still like paper maps ... but for travel
purposes you really need to get county-by-
county versions in order to find all the
hidden routes.
I still like paper maps ... but for travel purposes you really need
to get county-by-
county versions in order to find all the hidden routes.
Of course in California you don't even have to read/write/speak any
known language to get the commercial endorsement - just be one of
their precious more-equal foreigners
Quads and "golf carts" can now be considered to be "vehicles" in lots
of states - the popularity has exploded. They require a few basic
minimums, tail-lights, head-lights, but the other requirements are
rather few.
On 10/20/25 04:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-20 09:32, c186282 wrote:
...
Hmmmm ... envision ... 2-lane rural road out in the sticks.
18-wheeler tries to pass a few vehicles, including my MC. But -
ONCOMING 18-wheelers and the parallel truck does not have the
power to pull ahead. Look, see, look again ... drop into 3rd and
PUNCH the damned thing to the max.
Power CAN save yer ass.
Yes...
My current car is a gasoline Corsa. My previous one was a diesel Corsa.
Basically the same nominal power. But the diesel accelerated faster,
because it had a turbo... I moaned a bit, but the garage says to shut
up, it is cheaper to maintain without a turbo.
Mechanically, true.
But it CAN be fatal to not have that extra power when critically
needed.
On 2025-10-21 07:33, c186282 wrote:
On 10/20/25 23:39, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 01:02:27 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
No GPS back then, just paper maps. And the one I had was not good
enough
to know there was a dirt road in the route.
On a family vacation to Nova Scotia I found a likely looking road on the >>> map. It was about the same deal. NS is an island with all the towns
on the
shore and nothing in the middle. After the pavement ran out and the dirt >>> road became narrower and narrower my mother vetoed my trip planning
and we
turned around. No sense of adventure. There were plenty of dirt roads
where I grew up but she knew where they came out.
I still like paper maps ... but for travel
purposes you really need to get county-by-
county versions in order to find all the
hidden routes.
Well, here I just had one book (spring bound) with the maps for the
entire Spain, in enough detail. I keep it in the car, but I haven't "updated" it in years.
In my little adventure in the islands, I did not bring the map in my luggage, I think. I suppose I bought something local.
Today, google maps or openstreetmap has much more detail, even if you
use it without a GPS. You can not zoom on a paper map.
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 21:52:45 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
BMW has to pay those fine German craftmens and skilled mechanics.of the
So yes it costs a lot more and reveals the extend of the decline
once proud American Dollar. In 1972 I paid about $1250 for the mc and
today you would have to come up with at least 10X as much lucre.
I would have liked one of the older BMWs like a RS60/2 or RS69. By the
time I got around to affording a BMW they had switched to oilheads that I thought were ugly. I looked at a couple of old airheads but they were
pretty ratty.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 01:39:33 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Quads and "golf carts" can now be considered to be "vehicles" in lots
of states - the popularity has exploded. They require a few basic
minimums, tail-lights, head-lights, but the other requirements are
rather few.
In this state golf carts are subject to local ordinances. If they are
allowed the state laws dictate basic equipment and require a DL. There
are a couple of communities built up around golf courses where you see
them tooling around. Unless you're suicidal you don't want to be on most highways with something that peaks out at 20 mph.
I see a lot of ebikes lately. I haven't been into one of the local bike
shops recently so I don't know if they're selling them or if it's mail
order. The Forest Service and the county have banned them on most single track trails. They are walking a fine line particularly the ones that you couldn't pedal if you wanted to.
On Mon, 20 Oct 2025 23:22:25 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 10/20/25 04:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-20 09:32, c186282 wrote:
...
Hmmmm ... envision ... 2-lane rural road out in the sticks.
18-wheeler tries to pass a few vehicles, including my MC. But -
ONCOMING 18-wheelers and the parallel truck does not have the
power to pull ahead. Look, see, look again ... drop into 3rd and >>>> PUNCH the damned thing to the max.
Power CAN save yer ass.
Yes...
My current car is a gasoline Corsa. My previous one was a diesel Corsa.
Basically the same nominal power. But the diesel accelerated faster,
because it had a turbo... I moaned a bit, but the garage says to shut
up, it is cheaper to maintain without a turbo.
Mechanically, true.
But it CAN be fatal to not have that extra power when critically
needed.
What amuses me is my Toyota subcompact could blow the doors off most of
the cool sports cars we drove in the '60s to say nothing of a lot of the sedans.
The old 'R' series were pretty good and basic bikes, and USED to be
affordable. My prob was that they were all built for slightly taller
people
For any amount of power you can always desire more.
Simply know you car and what you can get out of it, and apply the proper evasive maneuvers, and don't get into risky situations that would
require more power
It is surprisingly difficult to spot a slow or stationary vehicle
while driving. The perspective does not change much until you're
RIGHT up on the damned thing. MANY nasty accidents result.
Oddly it's the police who are often victims of this. Despite blue
lights and such, drivers kind of see the tail-lights and
automatically assume the pull-off strip is another open lane where
traffic is proceeding at their speed.
They only realize the truth an instant before the Big Smash.
Something about how humans are wired .....
I have a couple of e-bike fanatics who blast down the sidewalk in
front of my house. Some of those things are pretty damned fast. They
also make NO NOISE. Now have to CAREFULLY, incrementally, nose my car
out over the sidewalk.
I did a lot of motorcycling when I was slightly younger - worked it
out to 1,000,000+ miles, used up LOTS of bikes. Found MANY "secret
ways"
and neat-o mystery features that appeared on no maps.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 21:22:31 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
For any amount of power you can always desire more.
Simply know you car and what you can get out of it, and apply the proper
evasive maneuvers, and don't get into risky situations that would
require more power
When I was young and foolish I left the engine alone and worked on the suspension. There were a lot of twisty mountain roads and you can only use just so much power. Except for the VStrom which was decent the bikes have
had suspension tweaks too with cartridge emulators in the forks. I don't
care for the 'dive like a submarine' effect and will sacrifice a plush
ride.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:41:07 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The old 'R' series were pretty good and basic bikes, and USED to be
affordable. My prob was that they were all built for slightly taller
people
I think the Suzukis have gotten taller in my old age. I didn't used to
have to really think about swinging a leg over them. What really sucks is when you have a pack bungeed on the back, the hook on you boot catches on something, and you stand there like a dog trying to take a piss.
For any amount of power you can always desire more.
Simply know you car and what you can get out of it, and apply the proper evasive maneuvers, and don't get into risky situations that would
require more power 🙂
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:48:54 -0400, c186282 wrote:
It is surprisingly difficult to spot a slow or stationary vehicle
while driving. The perspective does not change much until you're
RIGHT up on the damned thing. MANY nasty accidents result.
Any vehicle that can't do at least 25 is supposed to have a big slow
vehicle triangle on the back. Always fun to get stuck behind a Harobed.
https://www.loc.gov/item/ncr002399/
Trivia: the guy who invented it had a daughter named Deborah.
Oddly it's the police who are often victims of this. Despite blue
lights and such, drivers kind of see the tail-lights and
automatically assume the pull-off strip is another open lane where
traffic is proceeding at their speed.
They only realize the truth an instant before the Big Smash.
Something about how humans are wired .....
I live way past the street lights and there aren't that many houses so it
can be dark on moonless lights. I've found myself drifting toward some hapless bastard with a blinking red light on his bicycle like a moth to a flame. 'What's that? Better go check it out. It might be a wolf or something!'
I have a couple of e-bike fanatics who blast down the sidewalk in
front of my house. Some of those things are pretty damned fast. They
also make NO NOISE. Now have to CAREFULLY, incrementally, nose my car
out over the sidewalk.
I've clocked them at 25. It's disconcerting in city traffic when it's in
the bike lane and going faster than you. I'm used to bicyclists catching
up at stop lights but not running neck in neck.
Then there are the two wheel e-scooters that look like a trip to the ER,
to say nothing of hoverboards. We had plenty of ways to kill ourselves
when I was a kid but the choices have improved. The city built both a BMX
and skateboard park. I don't think I was that crazy even at 10.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:37:04 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I did a lot of motorcycling when I was slightly younger - worked it
out to 1,000,000+ miles, used up LOTS of bikes. Found MANY "secret
ways"
and neat-o mystery features that appeared on no maps.
Then there are the mystery features that DO appear on the maps. There's a bridge near the house that was closed to vehicles in the late '80s. I
think it was '95 when most of the deck washed away in the spring flood. Without the deck the pilings are long gone now but it is still on some
maps.
Having a warped sense of humor I put a geocache on the far side of the
river. You can drive close to it but the route isn't obvious. I also put
one on a ridge where DeLorme showed a road. In that case there never was
any sort of road just a trail that would give a mountain goat vertigo.
Reagan popularized it but it's a Russian proverb: trust, but verify. Good advice when dealing with maps, paper or digital.
What amuses me is my Toyota subcompact could blow the doors off most of
the cool sports cars we drove in the '60s to say nothing of a lot of the sedans.
On 10/22/25 01:45, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 21:22:31 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
For any amount of power you can always desire more.
Esp true if you have a "Y" chromosome :-)
Simply know you car and what you can get out of it, and apply the proper >>> evasive maneuvers, and don't get into risky situations that would
require more power
When I was young and foolish I left the engine alone and worked on the
suspension. There were a lot of twisty mountain roads and you can only
use
just so much power. Except for the VStrom which was decent the bikes have
had suspension tweaks too with cartridge emulators in the forks. I don't
care for the 'dive like a submarine' effect and will sacrifice a plush
ride.
Don't think there's any "perfect" tuning - suspension
or drive train. Get it as good as you can and then COPE.
Motorcycling is always an adventure :-)
Alas, now, for younger people than I ....
On 10/22/25 01:40, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:41:07 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The old 'R' series were pretty good and basic bikes, and USED to be >>> affordable. My prob was that they were all built for slightly taller >>> people
I think the Suzukis have gotten taller in my old age. I didn't used to
have to really think about swinging a leg over them. What really sucks is
when you have a pack bungeed on the back, the hook on you boot catches on
something, and you stand there like a dog trying to take a piss.
Get a fair amount of rain where I live now.
This means street intersections are especially
dangerous on two wheels. The waiting vehicles
drip OIL and various fluids ... and when it's
damp the road surface becomes like greased glass.
You HAVE to be able to put both feet down, widely,
to get past that.
The Jap cruisers and some HDs are good at putting
the seat pretty low. You COULD do the survival
maneuvers. Alas BMWs were always pretty 'high'.
I'd have bought one otherwise. The old r90-S
standards were about perfect IMHO. But you
really needed to be near 6' tall .....
On 10/21/25 16:02, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 01:39:33 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Quads and "golf carts" can now be considered to be "vehicles" in >>> lots
of states - the popularity has exploded. They require a few basic >>> minimums, tail-lights, head-lights, but the other requirements are >>> rather few.
In this state golf carts are subject to local ordinances. If they are
allowed the state laws dictate basic equipment and require a DL. There
are a couple of communities built up around golf courses where you see
them tooling around. Unless you're suicidal you don't want to be on most
highways with something that peaks out at 20 mph.
I've seen some that do at least 45 :-)
But yea, major highway, keep up or get squashed.
It is surprisingly difficult to spot a slow or
stationary vehicle while driving. The perspective
does not change much until you're RIGHT up on
the damned thing. MANY nasty accidents result.
Oddly it's the police who are often victims of
this. Despite blue lights and such, drivers
kind of see the tail-lights and automatically
assume the pull-off strip is another open lane
where traffic is proceeding at their speed.
They only realize the truth an instant before
the Big Smash. Something about how humans
are wired .....
I see a lot of ebikes lately. I haven't been into one of the local bike
shops recently so I don't know if they're selling them or if it's mail
order. The Forest Service and the county have banned them on most single
track trails. They are walking a fine line particularly the ones that you
couldn't pedal if you wanted to.
I have a couple of e-bike fanatics who blast down
the sidewalk in front of my house. Some of those
things are pretty damned fast. They also make
NO NOISE. Now have to CAREFULLY, incrementally,
nose my car out over the sidewalk.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:48:54 -0400, c186282 wrote:
It is surprisingly difficult to spot a slow or stationary vehicle
while driving. The perspective does not change much until you're
RIGHT up on the damned thing. MANY nasty accidents result.
Any vehicle that can't do at least 25 is supposed to have a big slow
vehicle triangle on the back. Always fun to get stuck behind a Harobed.
https://www.loc.gov/item/ncr002399/
On 10/22/25 02:02, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:48:54 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I've clocked some e-bikes ... 40mph sometimes. Not sure
if UK/elsewhere have limitations but then owners sometimes
do their own mods. The damned things are hard to see and
SILENT ... but it's YOUR fault if one hits you.
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:37:04 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I did a lot of motorcycling when I was slightly younger - worked it
out to 1,000,000+ miles, used up LOTS of bikes. Found MANY "secret
ways"
and neat-o mystery features that appeared on no maps.
Then there are the mystery features that DO appear on the maps. There's a bridge near the house that was closed to vehicles in the late '80s. I
think it was '95 when most of the deck washed away in the spring flood. Without the deck the pilings are long gone now but it is still on some
maps.
Having a warped sense of humor I put a geocache on the far side of the
river. You can drive close to it but the route isn't obvious. I also put
one on a ridge where DeLorme showed a road. In that case there never was
any sort of road just a trail that would give a mountain goat vertigo.
Reagan popularized it but it's a Russian proverb: trust, but verify. Good advice when dealing with maps, paper or digital.
Raccoons have NO 'traffic sense' - they, entire families,
will just walk out into traffic to cross the road. Splat !
They are fairly intelligent but it does NOT include that.
Cats wait until the LAST ULTIMATE SECOND and then try to
dart across the road. Again, often, splat ! Dogs think
vehicles are 'cattle' or something, rush out to 'bite at
the heels'. Splat.
I see a lot of ebikes lately. I haven't been into one of the local
bike shops recently so I don't know if they're selling them or if it's
mail order. The Forest Service and the county have banned them on most
single track trails. They are walking a fine line particularly the
ones that you couldn't pedal if you wanted to.
Eum... why?
The exceptions are electric chairs for impaired people, and some of them
are fast!
'Scoots' tend to be a LITTLE larger, a LITTLE easier to see.
Not much, but SOME.
The old bright-painted Vespa's were MUCH better.
On 2025-10-22 08:02, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:48:54 -0400, c186282 wrote:
It is surprisingly difficult to spot a slow or stationary vehicle
while driving. The perspective does not change much until you're
RIGHT up on the damned thing. MANY nasty accidents result.
Any vehicle that can't do at least 25 is supposed to have a big slow
vehicle triangle on the back. Always fun to get stuck behind a Harobed.
https://www.loc.gov/item/ncr002399/
Fascinating. I don't think I have ever seen one.
...
I never rode a bike, they scare me. Also they fascinate me, as machines.
They are a vanishing device. Most people around here have went to large round bales. They are a lot less work both in making hay and in feeding it out. They can be mechanically loaded on a standard flatbed rather than dealing with a lot of little square bales.
On 2025-10-22 05:48, c186282 wrote:
On 10/21/25 16:02, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 01:39:33 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Quads and "golf carts" can now be considered to be "vehicles" in >>>> lots
of states - the popularity has exploded. They require a few basic >>>> minimums, tail-lights, head-lights, but the other requirements are >>>> rather few.
In this state golf carts are subject to local ordinances. If they are
allowed the state laws dictate basic equipment and require a DL. There >>> are a couple of communities built up around golf courses where you see
them tooling around. Unless you're suicidal you don't want to be on most >>> highways with something that peaks out at 20 mph.
I've seen some that do at least 45 :-)
Around here, there is a regulation that vehicles with a gasoline motor smaller than 50 cc, do not need a driving license. They have to be very light. I don't know about an equivalent rule for electricals.
But yea, major highway, keep up or get squashed.
It is surprisingly difficult to spot a slow or
stationary vehicle while driving. The perspective
does not change much until you're RIGHT up on
the damned thing. MANY nasty accidents result.
Oddly it's the police who are often victims of
this. Despite blue lights and such, drivers
kind of see the tail-lights and automatically
assume the pull-off strip is another open lane
where traffic is proceeding at their speed.
They only realize the truth an instant before
the Big Smash. Something about how humans
are wired .....
I see a lot of ebikes lately. I haven't been into one of the local bike
shops recently so I don't know if they're selling them or if it's mail
order. The Forest Service and the county have banned them on most single >>> track trails. They are walking a fine line particularly the ones that
you
couldn't pedal if you wanted to.
Eum... why?
I have a couple of e-bike fanatics who blast down
the sidewalk in front of my house. Some of those
things are pretty damned fast. They also make
NO NOISE. Now have to CAREFULLY, incrementally,
nose my car out over the sidewalk.
In theory, electric "skate boards" or whatever they are named are
forbidden on the sidewalks here. They are considered motor vehicles and
must go on the road path.
The exceptions are electric chairs for impaired people, and some of them
are fast!
On 2025-10-22 08:02, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:48:54 -0400, c186282 wrote:
It is surprisingly difficult to spot a slow or stationary vehicle >>> while driving. The perspective does not change much until you're
RIGHT up on the damned thing. MANY nasty accidents result.
Any vehicle that can't do at least 25 is supposed to have a big slow
vehicle triangle on the back. Always fun to get stuck behind a Harobed.
https://www.loc.gov/item/ncr002399/
Fascinating. I don't think I have ever seen one.
But the authorities have other better things to
do than hassle e-bike riders.
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:26:32 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-22 08:02, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:48:54 -0400, c186282 wrote:
It is surprisingly difficult to spot a slow or stationary vehicle >>>> while driving. The perspective does not change much until you're
RIGHT up on the damned thing. MANY nasty accidents result.
Any vehicle that can't do at least 25 is supposed to have a big slow
vehicle triangle on the back. Always fun to get stuck behind a Harobed.
https://www.loc.gov/item/ncr002399/
Fascinating. I don't think I have ever seen one.
...
They are a vanishing device. Most people around here have went to large
round bales. They are a lot less work both in making hay and in feeding it out. They can be mechanically loaded on a standard flatbed rather than dealing with a lot of little square bales.
I've seen all sides of square bales, both bucking them onto a flatbed in
the field, stacking them in the barn, loading them onto a pickup to feed
the stock, and riding the back of a pickup in sub zero weather, cutting
bales and tossing them off the back. Lot of work all around.
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 03:34:24 -0400, c186282 wrote:
'Scoots' tend to be a LITTLE larger, a LITTLE easier to see.
Not much, but SOME.
Not that kind of scooter...
'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2OV9mleHbc
The old bright-painted Vespa's were MUCH better.
When I was a kid I lusted for a Vespa. No way, no day. My father had a
thing about little wheels. When I bought the Harley he helped me bring it home and break the news to my mother but no scooters.
The 'break the news' didn't work out well. I bought it at a police auction and a reporter was filming the event. I made the 6 o'clock news rather
than a subtle ramp up.
On 10/22/25 08:26, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-10-22 08:02, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 21 Oct 2025 23:48:54 -0400, c186282 wrote:
It is surprisingly difficult to spot a slow or stationary vehicle >>>> while driving. The perspective does not change much until you're >>>> RIGHT up on the damned thing. MANY nasty accidents result.
Any vehicle that can't do at least 25 is supposed to have a big slow
vehicle triangle on the back. Always fun to get stuck behind a Harobed.
https://www.loc.gov/item/ncr002399/
Fascinating. I don't think I have ever seen one.
Not near 'farm country' ???
On Wed, 22 Oct 2025 14:21:17 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I see a lot of ebikes lately. I haven't been into one of the local
bike shops recently so I don't know if they're selling them or if it's >>>> mail order. The Forest Service and the county have banned them on most >>>> single track trails. They are walking a fine line particularly the
ones that you couldn't pedal if you wanted to.
Eum... why?
Many of the trails have designated usage, hikers, bicyclists, horses, motorcycles, and quads. Hikers and horses may be permitted but not
bicycles or motorcycles for example. I hike in an area that was created by mountain bikers and there are steep downhills that are bike only for
safety reasons.
So if you have a trail that allows bicycles how do you classify a e-bike
that isn't a pedal assist but uses a throttle that doesn't require any pedaling and can do 25 mph? There are some Chinese designs that do a wink
and nod. They have pedals but if you tried to use them you'd find your
feet hit the frame. The you get to full on electric motorcycles that make
no pretense of being a bicycle.
https://zeromotorcycles.com/
Rather than dealing with all the nuances coming up with a new icon for the sign at the trail head that means 'no e-bikes' is easier.
They are still allowed on the urban paved trails but I don't know how long that will last if there are abuses. There is sort of a feeling among the pedal bike riders that e-bike riders are lazy, low class trash.
The exceptions are electric chairs for impaired people, and some of them
are fast!
A friend was a quadriplegic and had one. If we were going someplace
together he had to slow down for my sake. It did condition me to be alert
for the whining sound e-bikes make.
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