*LATIN* .... Any wonder the numbers are falling .... but, then again,
we've had English Masses since about mid-60's and the numbers have
fallen here as well!!
Air Force Chaplain I met overseas called himself "FBI" ForeignLike the ELCA, There is a Reformed Church in America but the Dutch
Reformed broke away the Canons of Dort. When my mother died the minister
had been imported from the Netherlands since the seminaries weren't
turning out ministers with the right degree of purity.
For many, many years, here in Australia, the Roman Catholic church
seemed to be populated by Irish Priests .... then it went to a goodly
number of Italian Priests (reasonable seems as that's where the Church
HQ is) but, lately, we've had Indian and Korean Priests at my little
Country Church.
--
Yeap ... and not yet having learnt Latin, I had bugger idea what was
being said AND I WAS AN ALTER SERVER!!
Those are the sort of Catholics that DJT got appointed to the
SCOUSA.
There were actually enough?
The Bible, James version esp, was broadly published and more and more
people could READ. THAT became the new Pope, THE reference point.
Popes weren't needed so much anymore.
Ok ... it's super vague/'interpretable' in a lot of places - ergo SO
many brands of Xians (and Moslems/Jews too). BUT, an improvement over
the older times.
Anyway, USA, almost everything except heavy appliances are 120v,
typically 15a outlets but you can get 20a easily enough. 2-prong
plugs have been standard for a hell of a long time, no dimensional
changes. They DID add a slightly wider 'neutral' prong in the 60s/70s
which was mostly a good thing. Still you can buy adapters ... two
standard prongs and loose ground wire you're supposed to stick behind
the outlet cover screw (USUALLY ground or at least neutral).
That all happened over a period of years. My parents house built in 1953
had rubber wiring *in steel conduit* which was the 'earth'.
My house needs an electrical upgrade, but the first task is to replace
the tubing, the current one is too narrow and will not allow thicker
cables (and more cables). And to replace the tubing means digging a
small trench in the brick walls, then close the trench and paint the
walls back.
I just remembered an anecdote. My second car, the first one I bought
myself, the dealer talked my out of installing airbags. This was maybe
1998.
That it was not needed or not safe or that it would delay the sale a
month.
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 12:05:55 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My house needs an electrical upgrade, but the first task is to replace
the tubing, the current one is too narrow and will not allow thicker
cables (and more cables). And to replace the tubing means digging a
small trench in the brick walls, then close the trench and paint the
walls back.
Wiremold? (metallic raceway). It's surface mount and there are elbows
and compatible boxes. It's sort of beige and doesn't look too bad.
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 11:35:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I just remembered an anecdote. My second car, the first one I bought
myself, the dealer talked my out of installing airbags. This was maybe
1998.
That it was not needed or not safe or that it would delay the sale a
month.
I don't think that was an option in the US. Seat belts might have been
back in the day. I remember my father getting irate over the charges for 'optional' accessories like a heater. It might have been optional in
Florida but not so much in the north.
In '82 the A/C in the Firebird I bought was an option. I didn't want it
and whined enough that they knocked a few bucks off.
The last three Toyotas came with A/C standard. Parts of other systems are also installed. I don't have remote entry but the door locks are setup for it. I get a collision alert beep but the brakes aren't applied. There is a display for wandering out of my lane but it doesn't correct. The first one did not have a radio but it did have speakers and the harness installed.
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 04:30:44 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Anyway, USA, almost everything except heavy appliances are 120v,
typically 15a outlets but you can get 20a easily enough. 2-prong
plugs have been standard for a hell of a long time, no dimensional
changes. They DID add a slightly wider 'neutral' prong in the 60s/70s
which was mostly a good thing. Still you can buy adapters ... two
standard prongs and loose ground wire you're supposed to stick behind
the outlet cover screw (USUALLY ground or at least neutral).
I've got to get a cheap power strip if I resurrect the old Compaq in the shed. The computer and monitor power cords are 3-prong. In my more
impulsive moments I've been know to cut off the ground prong. That's no different than using and adapter and not bothering with grounding the
little tab.
Oddly the AC weed whacker only has two prongs but I did add a GFI socket
and approved external receptacle for it. I use the same for the heated cat bowl in the winter. I'd rather not fry the little nuisances.
On 1/09/2025 7:28 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 07:32, c186282 wrote:What were they drawing pictures of those animals on the cave wall for, then??
Wonder, what WERE they worshiping at Gobekli Tepe
and related places, 12,000+ years ago
I don't think they did 'worship'...
"Please, mystical figure, give us more of these to catch, kill and eat."
On 01/09/2025 12:31, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-01 13:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Wonderful;. I'd love to take that on, given the money.
On 01/09/2025 11:35, c186282 wrote:
Oh, alt to grooving walls ... just do like they do in
the old British castles/landmarks - fully exposed tubes,
usually tucked in the top corner of the wall. Paint to
hide or some other method.
Yes. Chipping away at 1000 year old stone walls is not ideal...
Make me wonder what cabin Carlos lives in...
It is a century old house with outer walls of stone and
mortar/concrete, and inner walls of brick (some of them solid brick),
built on what was a swamp, so there is humidity creeping from the
soil. Quite cold in winter, unheatable, despite the mild Mediterranean
climate. Oh, and I have cracked walls, too.
The entire district is "protected". If you tear down the house, you
have to rebuild with the same outside aspect.
Was the outer edge of the city when built, now it is centric.
Reminds me of someone I knew who bought a 'listed' (protected) building.
But it was the outside appearance that was 'listed' the builder built a
new house inside the outer structure, insulated and cosy. Complete with
a second layer of window glazing.
And the damp is in the original walls, but they have a layer of waterproofing and insulation over them before the inner house is reached..,
On 1/09/2025 6:24 am, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 31 Aug 2025 23:38:56 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:*LATIN* .... Any wonder the numbers are falling .... but, then again,
Admittedly, the Congregations I've seen recently are so small just
having fewer Mass' said by "flying squad" Priests is still a
possibility!!
There is a flying SSPV priest squad that comes here on the 2nd, 4th, and
5th Sundays to hold a traditional Latin Mass. They go to Billings on the
1st, 3rd, and 5th Sundays.
First there was the Society of Saint Pius X that was formed by the
traditionalists after Vatican II. I'm not sure about their current
status.
I think they're sort of recognized by the Vatican. The Society of Saint
Pius V was formed by a group of priests who broke away over the use of
the
1962 liturgy. They're straight sedevacantist and don't think there has
been a legitimate Pope since Pius XII died in '58.
I've never been to their services since a suit, or at least a sport coat,
and tie is required. There's tradition and then there's going to far. A
friend mentioned there is a church that sneaks in a Latin Mass although I
don't think it's the full Tridentine version.
It leaves the lay Catholics with a confusing situation. Is a Mass
celebrated by one of the canonically irregular groups valid?
we've had English Masses since about mid-60's and the numbers have
fallen here as well!!
On 2025-09-01 12:35, c186282 wrote:
On 9/1/25 6:05 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-01 11:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 09:30, c186282 wrote:
Sometimes I wonder how much of this kind of stuff is REAL
and how much is INVENTED to profit various commercial
entities.
Why ... we'll just have to replace EVERY outlet, maybe
every inch of wire, in your house ! What's THAT cost ?
What percent is profit ?
That all happened over a period of years. My parents house built in
1953 had rubber wiring *in steel conduit* which was the 'earth'.
Around about 1970 that was obsolete and the rubber used was starting
to crumble. Still safe in steel conduit though.
Then extra wiring was needed for more power more machines and more
sockets,. That was extended in the modern style and a new fusebox
fitted.
UK building regulations are *not* retrospective, houses built to old
standards are allowed to exist, but not modernised extended or
rebuilt to old standards.
Modern wiring with Twin and earth PVC cable is only to be installed
*if* the old wiring constitutes a danger, and its typically the
insurance company who will kick up a fuss.
Rewiring a house is not that expensive. Normally it's done every 60
years or so when major refurbishment happens when a house is sold.
Profit for whom? The sockets are dirt cheap - less than $2 in USA
terms, unless you want them gold plated...or made of brass..
Wire is cheap too. The biggest cost is simply labour - to pull the
wires and connect them up. It's about 1/2 hr per socket. Pulling
wires may take weeks if the paths are long and contorted
Fuse boxes (consumer units) are quite cheap but modern MCBS are a
tad pricey.
So an electricity upgrade is in the thousands of dollars range, but
seldom in the tens of thousands.
My house needs an electrical upgrade, but the first task is to
replace the tubing, the current one is too narrow and will not allow
thicker cables (and more cables). And to replace the tubing means
digging a small trench in the brick walls, then close the trench and
paint the walls back.
So I'm not doing it. Aiming instead to move to a flat, then the buyer
will probably demolish the house.
Steel/aluminum flex conduit MAY save you here. However
getting it down what's left of the existing conduits,
probably half-inch, may not work.
Oh, alt to grooving walls ... just do like they do in
the old British castles/landmarks - fully exposed tubes,
usually tucked in the top corner of the wall. Paint to
hide or some other method.
Yeah, but it's not worth it. I'm getting older. I may not be able to
handle the stairs in the future, I need to move to a flat now that I can handle the moving.
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 02:32:23 -0400, c186282 wrote:
The Bible, James version esp, was broadly published and more and more
people could READ. THAT became the new Pope, THE reference point.
Popes weren't needed so much anymore.
Ok ... it's super vague/'interpretable' in a lot of places - ergo SO
many brands of Xians (and Moslems/Jews too). BUT, an improvement over
the older times.
Considering the cherry picked evil semi-literate storefront preachers have come up with it would be better if they couldn't read it. Christian
Zionism runs deep in the Protestant DNA but finding Darby, Schofield, et
al guilty of heresey and burning them at the stake would have been a good thing.
On 01/09/2025 07:32, c186282 wrote:
Wonder, what WERE they worshiping at Gobekli Tepe
and related places, 12,000+ years ago
On 2025-09-01, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
I don't think they did 'worship'...
According to several UU ministers, "Worship" comes from an old English
word meaning "to shape that which has worth".
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 04:30:44 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Anyway, USA, almost everything except heavy appliances are 120v,
typically 15a outlets but you can get 20a easily enough. 2-prong
plugs have been standard for a hell of a long time, no dimensional
changes. They DID add a slightly wider 'neutral' prong in the 60s/70s
which was mostly a good thing. Still you can buy adapters ... two
standard prongs and loose ground wire you're supposed to stick behind
the outlet cover screw (USUALLY ground or at least neutral).
I've got to get a cheap power strip if I resurrect the old Compaq in the shed. The computer and monitor power cords are 3-prong. In my more
impulsive moments I've been know to cut off the ground prong. That's no different than using and adapter and not bothering with grounding the
little tab.
Oddly the AC weed whacker only has two prongs but I did add a GFI socket
and approved external receptacle for it. I use the same for the heated cat bowl in the winter. I'd rather not fry the little nuisances.
<https://dailynews.0tnews.com/quantum-ai-just-decoded-gobekli-tepes-symbols-and-what-it-found-was-godlike/>
More like exploitation of the unconscious mind thru symbolic
archetypes.
Very early religion.
On 1/09/2025 6:24 am, rbowman wrote:
There is a flying SSPV priest squad that comes here on the 2nd, 4th,
and 5th Sundays to hold a traditional Latin Mass. They go to Billings
on the 1st, 3rd, and 5th Sundays.
...
I've never been to their services since a suit, or at least a sport
coat,
and tie is required. There's tradition and then there's going to far.
A friend mentioned there is a church that sneaks in a Latin Mass
although I don't think it's the full Tridentine version.
In my (UU) congregation, we do not dress up to go to church. "When we
are in Church, we are with family".
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 10:55:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That all happened over a period of years. My parents house built in 1953
had rubber wiring *in steel conduit* which was the 'earth'.
BX?
https://www.thespruce.com/bx-wire-guide-to-armored-electrical-
cable-1821519
At my first job, first month perhaps, we killed a PC. I don't remember
if it was me or my boss that plugged the centronics connector of a
printer into the PC, and I saw a tiny spark. Sure enough, the printer
port was dead.
As I commented elsewhere, there are so many things "bad", that I'm going
to move to a flat instead, otherwise, yes, surface mount if they allow
it, dunno. I'm aging, so while I still can, before I can't manage the
stairs, I must do the big effort of moving to a flat.
I once wanted a 2/3 floor house ... but now that I'm old I'm glad I
never bought one. Know a number of old people who've had to basically
abandon the top floor of their homes because it's not safe to climb
stairs anymore and they can't get a 'chair-lift' for various reasons.
On 9/1/25 7:40 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 12:31, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-01 13:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Wonderful;. I'd love to take that on, given the money.
On 01/09/2025 11:35, c186282 wrote:It is a century old house with outer walls of stone and
Oh, alt to grooving walls ... just do like they do in
the old British castles/landmarks - fully exposed tubes,
usually tucked in the top corner of the wall. Paint to hide or
some other method.
Yes. Chipping away at 1000 year old stone walls is not ideal...
Make me wonder what cabin Carlos lives in...
mortar/concrete, and inner walls of brick (some of them solid brick),
built on what was a swamp, so there is humidity creeping from the
soil. Quite cold in winter, unheatable, despite the mild Mediterranean
climate. Oh, and I have cracked walls, too.
The entire district is "protected". If you tear down the house, you
have to rebuild with the same outside aspect.
Was the outer edge of the city when built, now it is centric.
Reminds me of someone I knew who bought a 'listed' (protected)
building. But it was the outside appearance that was 'listed' the
builder built a new house inside the outer structure, insulated and
cosy. Complete with a second layer of window glazing.
Now that's clever - and a smart way to circumvent 'historical' regs
:-)
At the time they talked me out of the airbag, they were optional. I
wanted them, but the delay for getting them was long. The AC was
optional, but I was absolutely certain I wanted it: driving with 40°C is
not nice in a metal box. Of course, now the airbag is not optional. And nobody chooses no AC: the choice is actually plain AC or "climatization"
(AC with automatic temperature control).
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 12:05:55 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
My house needs an electrical upgrade, but the first task is to replace
the tubing, the current one is too narrow and will not allow thicker
cables (and more cables). And to replace the tubing means digging a
small trench in the brick walls, then close the trench and paint the
walls back.
Wiremold? (metallic raceway). It's surface mount and there are elbows
and compatible boxes. It's sort of beige and doesn't look too bad.
LABOR (and SKILL) involved with rigid conduit these days seems to be
more and more rare. It takes special skill to get all the bends right
and not many seem to have that skill anymore. It's also just a lot
more (expensive) WORK. My old man, mil/industrial electric, was a
whiz at bends, but TODAY .....
So, IMHO, EMBRACE the concept of 'exposed' wiring and plumbing. Find
ways to make it look good. When something DOES - always will - go
wrong then it's EASY to cope.
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 19:26:40 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
<https://dailynews.0tnews.com/quantum-ai-just-decoded-gobekli-tepes-symbols-and-what-it-found-was-godlike/>
More like exploitation of the unconscious mind thru symbolic
archetypes.
Very early religion.
I've visited quite a few of the petroglyph sites in the US southwest. Archaeologists have theories about what the symbols mean, perhaps records
of astronomical events and so forth.
After noticing many of the sites have a good view of the surrounding territory I came up with my own theory. The tribe sent a couple of bored teenagers up as overwatch to make sure the tribe on the other side of the ridge wasn't sneaking up on them. Not having Gameboys the kids passed the time chipping away at rocks. I'm surprised more of the glyphs do not
resemble genitalia.
There are a few pictographs in sheltered locations that show a little more talent but there are the all time favorite hand tracings too.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 02:30:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
At my first job, first month perhaps, we killed a PC. I don't remember
if it was me or my boss that plugged the centronics connector of a
printer into the PC, and I saw a tiny spark. Sure enough, the printer
port was dead.
I killed the Centronics port on one machine but I had plugged in a
homegrown EPROM burner and screwed something up. You could do many things with the parallel port that didn't involve a printer. Some used it for dongles. I may have an external Iomega Zip drive around here that used it. 100 MB of removable storage. What more would you ever need?
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 02:21:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
At the time they talked me out of the airbag, they were optional. I
wanted them, but the delay for getting them was long. The AC was
optional, but I was absolutely certain I wanted it: driving with 40°C is
not nice in a metal box. Of course, now the airbag is not optional. And
nobody chooses no AC: the choice is actually plain AC or "climatization"
(AC with automatic temperature control).
I've lived most of my life north of 45 degrees. I realize many European cities are further north but on the North American continent 40 C would be very unusual.
I think it hit 35 today and it seldom gets higher. I was reading outside
and at about 2030 I was getting a little chilly and came inside. It's a semi-arid climate so when the sun goes down so does the temperature. It's
be about 12 tonight. 'It's a dry heat' as they say.
When I lived back east there were times when I wished I had A/C when I had
to go south. Even if the temperature isn't extreme the humidity make you
wish you had gills. With one trip in a company van that had vinyl seats I more or less came down with diaper rash. No fun.
Other than a recall for the Toyota exploding air bag model I've never had them deploy. A snowplow turned into my lane an totaled the car but it was only about 20 mph and the glancing blow wasn't sufficient to trigger them.
I think the first family car with seat belts was in '65. Seat belts just like a race car! Considering they were only lap belts they may have been worse than no belt. The best thing they were good for was keeping you
from sliding across the bench seat during spirited cornering. My
girlfriend knew what was coming when I told her to buckle up.
On 9/1/25 7:40 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 12:31, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-01 13:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Wonderful;. I'd love to take that on, given the money.
On 01/09/2025 11:35, c186282 wrote:
Oh, alt to grooving walls ... just do like they do in
the old British castles/landmarks - fully exposed tubes,
usually tucked in the top corner of the wall. Paint to
hide or some other method.
Yes. Chipping away at 1000 year old stone walls is not ideal...
Make me wonder what cabin Carlos lives in...
It is a century old house with outer walls of stone and mortar/
concrete, and inner walls of brick (some of them solid brick), built
on what was a swamp, so there is humidity creeping from the soil.
Quite cold in winter, unheatable, despite the mild Mediterranean
climate. Oh, and I have cracked walls, too.
The entire district is "protected". If you tear down the house, you
have to rebuild with the same outside aspect.
Was the outer edge of the city when built, now it is centric.
Reminds me of someone I knew who bought a 'listed' (protected)
building. But it was the outside appearance that was 'listed' the
builder built a new house inside the outer structure, insulated and
cosy. Complete with a second layer of window glazing.
Now that's clever - and a smart way to circumvent
'historical' regs :-)
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 22:36:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/1/25 7:40 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 12:31, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-01 13:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 11:35, c186282 wrote:
Was the outer edge of the city when built, now it is centric.Wonderful;. I'd love to take that on, given the money.
Reminds me of someone I knew who bought a 'listed' (protected)
building. But it was the outside appearance that was 'listed' the
builder built a new house inside the outer structure, insulated and
cosy. Complete with a second layer of window glazing.
Now that's clever - and a smart way to circumvent 'historical' regs
:-)
That works. I knew a carpenter that specialized in restoring Victorians.
He wasn't getting rich since nobody could really afford the true costs but
he loved the old craftsmanship, Some of those towers had curved glass.
They don't give that away down at the local glass shop.
https://www.clearywindowrestoration.com/curved_glass_windows
The towers are fun. There isn't much room in them and they're usually accessed via a ladder and through a trap door but if you're at a party and want a quiet space for some reason or the other...--
On 9/1/25 7:41 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-01 12:35, c186282 wrote:
On 9/1/25 6:05 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-01 11:55, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 09:30, c186282 wrote:
So I'm not doing it. Aiming instead to move to a flat, then the
buyer will probably demolish the house.
Steel/aluminum flex conduit MAY save you here. However
getting it down what's left of the existing conduits,
probably half-inch, may not work.
Oh, alt to grooving walls ... just do like they do in
the old British castles/landmarks - fully exposed tubes,
usually tucked in the top corner of the wall. Paint to
hide or some other method.
Yeah, but it's not worth it. I'm getting older. I may not be able to
handle the stairs in the future, I need to move to a flat now that I
can handle the moving.
I once wanted a 2/3 floor house ... but now that I'm
old I'm glad I never bought one. Know a number of old
people who've had to basically abandon the top floor
of their homes because it's not safe to climb stairs
anymore and they can't get a 'chair-lift' for various
reasons.
In any case, fully exposed conduits are the cheapest way
to new circuits. Many decorative options to kind of hide
their nastiness, or maybe you can make them into an
'artistic statement'.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 02:25:20 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
As I commented elsewhere, there are so many things "bad", that I'm going
to move to a flat instead, otherwise, yes, surface mount if they allow
it, dunno. I'm aging, so while I still can, before I can't manage the
stairs, I must do the big effort of moving to a flat.
I dread ever having to move. More than 3 decades in one place and the crap accumulates. I really have to get into Swedish death cleaning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_death_cleaning
c186282 wrote:[...]
Oh, 13a at 240v ... over 2700 watts. Wow !
Guess your clock-radio won't overload THOSE ! :-)
USA ... dedicated neutrals were slowly introduced
in the 60s/70s. Had to trim the 'fatter' neutrals
more than once because it was easier than replacing
the old socket. Old - usually metal-cased - tools
and appliances COULD shock the shit out of you
before the new standard. Ya didn't know WHICH
prong was neutral unless you had a meter. Have
an old mechanical calculator - "Marchant" - a
zillion gears and cogs and at least two motors.
Super-fun to watch it work - BUT even the cord
just had two blacks, and if you plugged it in
wrong it WOULD shock the shit out of you.
So, kind of happy for the dedicated neutral now
AND the addition of the round ground prong. Got
shocked more than enough ! Fortunately, old US
wall plug design had enough space for the new
ground prongs without changing the old geometry.
Can STILL buy adapters though - a 2-prong thing
with a loose ground wire hanging out. Generally
you attach it to the outlet cover-screw. Not
perfect but better than nothing.
The UK 13a standard plug has a (replaceable) fuse inside. In theory you
can have each appliance with an appropriate fuse, so a fault in one
doesn't take down the whole circuit. In practice, I think most people
have a stock of 15a fuses that they use as replacements....
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 02:25:20 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
As I commented elsewhere, there are so many things "bad", that I'm going
to move to a flat instead, otherwise, yes, surface mount if they allow
it, dunno. I'm aging, so while I still can, before I can't manage the
stairs, I must do the big effort of moving to a flat.
I dread ever having to move. More than 3 decades in one place and the crap accumulates. I really have to get into Swedish death cleaning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_death_cleaning
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 02:30:59 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
At my first job, first month perhaps, we killed a PC. I don't remember
if it was me or my boss that plugged the centronics connector of a
printer into the PC, and I saw a tiny spark. Sure enough, the printer
port was dead.
I killed the Centronics port on one machine but I had plugged in a
homegrown EPROM burner and screwed something up. You could do many things with the parallel port that didn't involve a printer. Some used it for dongles. I may have an external Iomega Zip drive around here that used it. 100 MB of removable storage. What more would you ever need?
RATS ... some day I'll describe the joy of prizing
an electrocuted rat out a motor-starter enclosure
in a little pill-box type building in high summer.
They'd also eaten all the exposed wiring - replaced
with steel BX. We intentionally re-located some
rat-eating snakes to and around the structure after ...
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 22:45:29 -0400, c186282 wrote:
I once wanted a 2/3 floor house ... but now that I'm old I'm glad I
never bought one. Know a number of old people who've had to basically
abandon the top floor of their homes because it's not safe to climb
stairs anymore and they can't get a 'chair-lift' for various reasons.
When we were married we had a two floor house. The second floor was terra incognita. There was a stoner couple next door in a house of about the
same age. You could see a little flex in the upstairs bedroom floor as you walked across it. That was the waterbed era and they were thinking about getting one. 'Uh, Dave, not a good idea. Put the pipe down for a while and rethink the plan'.
I've seen the future. There are three steps up to the deck and the old arthritic cat with house privileges takes them very slowly, one at a time.
I trust her indoors since her days of jumping up on anything are a fond memory.
So far so good though. I managed to put in 5.5 miles including 1200' of elevation gain today without dying. A young girl running up the trail
passed me and I realized like the cat running through the woods ain't happening again in this lifetime.
On 9/1/25 5:24 PM, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 04:30:44 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Oddly the AC weed whacker only has two prongs but I did add a GFI socket
and approved external receptacle for it. I use the same for the heated
cat
bowl in the winter. I'd rather not fry the little nuisances.
GFI is good - recommended - for 'damp' locations. If you
have outlets in a bathroom then DO use GFI.
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have
to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to--
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
On 2025-09-01, Ian wrote:
c186282 wrote:[...]
Oh, 13a at 240v ... over 2700 watts. Wow !
Guess your clock-radio won't overload THOSE ! :-)
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple times
on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And that
in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric
kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how
precise such assessments are.
The UK 13a standard plug has a (replaceable) fuse inside. In theory you
can have each appliance with an appropriate fuse, so a fault in one
doesn't take down the whole circuit. In practice, I think most people
have a stock of 15a fuses that they use as replacements....
How does that compare to having e.g. RCD breakers and similar devices
that do not require replacing a fuse?
Is it just a matter of the electrical wiring/installation being new
enough to feature these, or are there other trade-offs?
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 22:36:30 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/1/25 7:40 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 12:31, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-01 13:20, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Wonderful;. I'd love to take that on, given the money.
On 01/09/2025 11:35, c186282 wrote:It is a century old house with outer walls of stone and
Oh, alt to grooving walls ... just do like they do in
the old British castles/landmarks - fully exposed tubes,
usually tucked in the top corner of the wall. Paint to hide or >>>>>> some other method.
Yes. Chipping away at 1000 year old stone walls is not ideal...
Make me wonder what cabin Carlos lives in...
mortar/concrete, and inner walls of brick (some of them solid brick),
built on what was a swamp, so there is humidity creeping from the
soil. Quite cold in winter, unheatable, despite the mild Mediterranean >>>> climate. Oh, and I have cracked walls, too.
The entire district is "protected". If you tear down the house, you
have to rebuild with the same outside aspect.
Was the outer edge of the city when built, now it is centric.
Reminds me of someone I knew who bought a 'listed' (protected)
building. But it was the outside appearance that was 'listed' the
builder built a new house inside the outer structure, insulated and
cosy. Complete with a second layer of window glazing.
Now that's clever - and a smart way to circumvent 'historical' regs
:-)
That works. I knew a carpenter that specialized in restoring Victorians.
He wasn't getting rich since nobody could really afford the true costs but
he loved the old craftsmanship, Some of those towers had curved glass.
They don't give that away down at the local glass shop.
https://www.clearywindowrestoration.com/curved_glass_windows
The towers are fun. There isn't much room in them and they're usually accessed via a ladder and through a trap door but if you're at a party and want a quiet space for some reason or the other...
On 9/2/25 12:49 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 02:25:20 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
As I commented elsewhere, there are so many things "bad", that I'm going >>> to move to a flat instead, otherwise, yes, surface mount if they allow
it, dunno. I'm aging, so while I still can, before I can't manage the
stairs, I must do the big effort of moving to a flat.
I dread ever having to move. More than 3 decades in one place and the
crap
accumulates. I really have to get into Swedish death cleaning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_death_cleaning
SIX+ decades basically in one place ... and kinda
the end of the near family line. All THEIR good
stuff wound up HERE - not counting all my own junk.
Need a 12" video disk machine (with some movies) ?
GOT one. Apple II with drive unit ? GOT one. Have
a ZX-81 )with printer) under the heap somewhere ....
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have
to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
On 2025-09-02 12:04, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 12:49 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 02:25:20 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
As I commented elsewhere, there are so many things "bad", that I'm
going
to move to a flat instead, otherwise, yes, surface mount if they allow >>>> it, dunno. I'm aging, so while I still can, before I can't manage the
stairs, I must do the big effort of moving to a flat.
I dread ever having to move. More than 3 decades in one place and the
crap
accumulates. I really have to get into Swedish death cleaning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_death_cleaning
SIX+ decades basically in one place ... and kinda
the end of the near family line. All THEIR good
stuff wound up HERE - not counting all my own junk.
Sounds familiar ;-)
Need a 12" video disk machine (with some movies) ?
GOT one. Apple II with drive unit ? GOT one. Have
a ZX-81 )with printer) under the heap somewhere ....
I had an electric gramophone. Managed to sell it. :-)
They were intended to be connected to the valve radio in a socket named "phone", IIRC.
On Mon, 8/4/2025 5:38 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 8/4/25 13:20, John Ames wrote:
On Mon, 04 Aug 2025 22:00:15 +0200
"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
"AI" doesn't understand anything about anything; you might as well
ask a parrot.
That is, if the parrot can do probabilities. (-;
Parrots are, in fact, famed for their ability to make statistical
associations between specific vocalizations and cracker delivery.
They also can dance very well for a bird. Can AI do that yet?
A parrot can add to its movement repertory over time finding
new moves. Will AI do that?
bliss - who is somewhat naturally intelligent but cannot dance much >> any longer.
They're making progress. This is the electric Atlas, the follow on to the hydraulic Atlas that fell off the plank it was walking on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I44_zbEwz_w
That's not path planning from first principles (AI thinking
up things to do). That's still a transfer process using software
and a visual simulator on the screen, so they can tweak the things
it is doing.
But in terms of mechanical details, that thing is miles ahead of
the competition. The competition have motors that kind of glitch
several times a second, and that's because they are attempting to use
closed loop feedback and "correct the movement towards an objective",
by "recomputing the solution" maybe 3-10 times a second. The end result,
is the competitors movements are not "smooth".
At some point, they will meld the various technical bits, and
maybe some day Atlas will bolt itself to one of the AI companies
for higher level functions.
When Atlas lands, after performing a stunt, it will move its foot
backwards an inch or two, or incline its foot to restore its balance,
all without using an excess of the other motors on the limbs. It is
applying feedback, but it is not apparent how it is doing that.
So while at some level, the software is coordinating a flip (as a
kind of set piece), some part of the software is computing custom
feedback so the poor thing does not fall over. And you can tell from
the fluidity of the movement, that the package is pretty well tuned.
That's the robot Musk wishes he had.
Boston Dynamics is owned by SoftBank, and has signed some kind of
pledge about not weaponizing it. So while their equipment will haul
military packs around, the devices (like that Atlas), will not be picking
up a rifle or machine gun.
"In October 2022, the company signed a pledge saying it
would not support any weaponization of its robotic creations."
The robot would be only too happy to hand you your gun :-)--
Paul
With a fuse on the cable of the appliance, the fuse can be precisely >calibrated to the actual load.
But you also need an RCD to protect the
wiring.
The robot would be only too *happy* to hand you your gun :-)
Paul
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
With a fuse on the cable of the appliance, the fuse can be precisely
calibrated to the actual load.
This is in fact a shortcoming of continental European installations,
where you can connect euro socket devices with 0,75 mm² cables to a
16A circuit. We trust that our wiring is sane enough that such a cable
will still allow enough Amps to flow to trip the breaker before it
ignites the environment. That's why we measure the loop resistance
before the installation is allowed to be used.
But you also need an RCD to protect the
wiring.
An RCD protects people, not the wiring.
I find it interesting that US hair dryers have the RCD in the plug.
On 01/09/2025 13:47, Daniel70 wrote:
On 31/08/2025 9:09 pm, Daniel70 wrote:
'Mystery Road' is a nice little Aussie Crime Drama .... set in the
absolutely gorgeous Outback.
Sort of "Doctor Who"'ish .... The first series featured a 40'ish Main
character, later series featured a 20s Main character .... which is
about to reappear on Aussie T.V. in a couple of weeks.
Hmm!! Looking up IMDB, it shows 2hr film in 2013 followed by a series
in 2018 then what I refered to as 'later series' in 2022.
So it seems these people take their time!!
I loved it. It really was a dirty gritty account of what it means to be
to be 'aboriginal' in effectively a trailer park/low rent area.
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have
to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is 240V
RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the
Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS are
400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
...even being fed from 240V A.C--
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is 240V
RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the
Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be about 90V RMS (or effective).
On 2025-08-05 01:34, Paul wrote:
On Mon, 8/4/2025 5:38 PM, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
On 8/4/25 13:20, John Ames wrote:
On Mon, 04 Aug 2025 22:00:15 +0200
"s|b" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
"AI" doesn't understand anything about anything; you might as well >>>>>> ask a parrot.
That is, if the parrot can do probabilities. (-;
Parrots are, in fact, famed for their ability to make statistical
associations between specific vocalizations and cracker delivery.
They also can dance very well for a bird. Can AI do that yet? >>>
A parrot can add to its movement repertory over time finding
new moves. Will AI do that?
bliss - who is somewhat naturally intelligent but cannot dance much
any longer.
They're making progress. This is the electric Atlas, the follow on to the
hydraulic Atlas that fell off the plank it was walking on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I44_zbEwz_w
Impressive.
That's not path planning from first principles (AI thinking
up things to do). That's still a transfer process using software
and a visual simulator on the screen, so they can tweak the things
it is doing.
But in terms of mechanical details, that thing is miles ahead of
the competition. The competition have motors that kind of glitch
several times a second, and that's because they are attempting to use
closed loop feedback and "correct the movement towards an objective",
by "recomputing the solution" maybe 3-10 times a second. The end result,
is the competitors movements are not "smooth".
At some point, they will meld the various technical bits, and
maybe some day Atlas will bolt itself to one of the AI companies
for higher level functions.
When Atlas lands, after performing a stunt, it will move its foot
backwards an inch or two, or incline its foot to restore its balance,
all without using an excess of the other motors on the limbs. It is
applying feedback, but it is not apparent how it is doing that.
So while at some level, the software is coordinating a flip (as a
kind of set piece), some part of the software is computing custom
feedback so the poor thing does not fall over. And you can tell from
the fluidity of the movement, that the package is pretty well tuned.
That's the robot Musk wishes he had.
Boston Dynamics is owned by SoftBank, and has signed some kind of
pledge about not weaponizing it. So while their equipment will haul
military packs around, the devices (like that Atlas), will not be picking
up a rifle or machine gun.
"In October 2022, the company signed a pledge saying it
would not support any weaponization of its robotic creations."
If the robot ends being flexible, someone will teach them to shoot as aftermarket addon.
On 5/08/2025 9:34 am, Paul wrote:
<Snip>
The robot would be only too *happy* to hand you your gun :-)WHAT?? Have 'they' given robots feeling now?? ;-)
Paul
Even the Greeks thought the Gods screwed around with humans when they were bored but had problems of their own too.
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is 240V
RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the
Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be about 90V RMS (or effective).
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 00:08:05 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
For many, many years, here in Australia, the Roman Catholic church
seemed to be populated by Irish Priests .... then it went to a goodly
number of Italian Priests (reasonable seems as that's where the Church
HQ is) but, lately, we've had Indian and Korean Priests at my little
Country Church.
At least when I was growing up there tended to be the German, French,
Irish, Polish, Italian church and the newer churches that had no
prevailing ethnic flavor. Other than a visiting priest from Africa once a year for Missionary Sunday, all priests were white as were the
parishioners.
I don't know about the current situation but historically the indigenous tribes sent expeditions east to bring back 'Black Robes' and got a mix of French and Italian Jesuits. I think it's the oldest Catholic church in
town but Francis Xavier was built in 1892 and is old school with very nice frescoes. The associated high school is Loyola. When I asked a Catholic friend if he went there he expressed negative views about the Jesuits and their works. The Jebs have always been controversial.
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 23:56:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
Yeap ... and not yet having learnt Latin, I had bugger idea what was
being said AND I WAS AN ALTER SERVER!!
The important part was 'p: Ite missa est. R: Deo gratias!' ('Go, the Mass
is ended. Thank God!'
I think that was a feature rather than a bug.' The pomp, ceremony, Latin, vestments, candle, incense, bells, and so on established a sense of the sacred and mysterious different from every day life. The rite was
centered around the Transubstantiation, a sacred mystery.
Subtract too much of that awe and mystery and you tend to slip into the memorialism of most of the Protestant denominations. The Lutherans sit on
the fence with consubstantiation.
The same goes for the physical design of a church. One church in town is modern, or was at least modern when it was built 30? years ago. The pews
are in a semicircular arrangement. It feels like a bus station.
I'm probably wrong but I think tradition plays a larger role in people's lives than they will admit.
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 01:15:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 11:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Putting missiles somewhere to defend, isn't an act of
aggression.
So why did the US feel so upset about the Soviets basing some
missiles in Cuba, then?
Exactly. Currently the US is also testy about the Chinese in Panama
and they didn't even bring missiles with them afaik.
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 10:55:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
That all happened over a period of years. My parents house built in 1953
had rubber wiring *in steel conduit* which was the 'earth'.
BX?
https://www.thespruce.com/bx-wire-guide-to-armored-electrical-No.
cable-1821519
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 01:15:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro
wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 11:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Putting missiles somewhere to defend, isn't an act of
aggression.
So why did the US feel so upset about the Soviets basing some
missiles in Cuba, then?
Exactly. Currently the US is also testy about the Chinese in Panama
and they didn't even bring missiles with them afaik.
Missiles in Cuba were the older shorter range missiles but put DC in
range of attack.
The Chinese in Panama deliberately avoided bringing missiles with
them.
They will wait until Trump or another imbecile is making more
threats then the Panamanian elite will want some for defense along
with the experts to train the locals in their effective use of
anti-missile misseles and/or drones...
bliss
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple times
on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And that
in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric
kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how
precise such assessments are.
With a fuse on the cable of the appliance, the fuse can be precisely calibrated to the actual load. But you also need an RCD to protect the wiring.The fuse is to protect the wiring FROM the wall to the appliance
On 2025-09-02 13:09, Marc Haber wrote:
"Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
With a fuse on the cable of the appliance, the fuse can be precisely
calibrated to the actual load.
This is in fact a shortcoming of continental European installations,
where you can connect euro socket devices with 0,75 mm² cables to a
16A circuit. We trust that our wiring is sane enough that such a cable
will still allow enough Amps to flow to trip the breaker before it
ignites the environment. That's why we measure the loop resistance
before the installation is allowed to be used.
But you also need an RCD to protect the
wiring.
An RCD protects people, not the wiring.
Oh, sorry, translation issue. I meant a current limiter switch, or
whatever they are called in English.
I find it interesting that US hair dryers have the RCD in the plug.
Oh.
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
On 2025-08-14 11:13, Marc Haber wrote:
"Carlos E. R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-08-13 21:30, Marc Haber wrote:
What Spain should be doing is building more power lines into France,
so that we in Middle Europe can buy their renewable power.
We want to, but France doesn't.
We would compete with their nuclear, so they protect it :-D
That's bad for all Europe.
Britain had plans to build solar plants in Morocco, and then a looong underwater cable to get it home. We could do the same, a cable from
Spain to Germany :-D
Next we'll have to prohibit ships dropping anchor anywhere.
Well in California we had subsidies and it paid off for home owners among whose blessed ranks I will never be counted but we are producing
power from wind and solar and we have batteries to back that up.
Big batteries. Not in your home but close to the sites where that power
is generated.
No subsidies are needed except on the home owners level and
only of course the home owners who can spend the money for
solar panels and hopefull a set of batteries in the garage where
they can charge up their electric Porshe runabout.
bliss
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
On 14/08/2025 2:04 pm, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
<Snip>
Well in California we had subsidies and it paid off for home owners
among whose blessed ranks I will never be counted but we are producing
power from wind and solar and we have batteries to back that up.
Big batteries. Not in your home but close to the sites where that power
is generated.
No subsidies are needed except on the home owners level and
only of course the home owners who can spend the money for
solar panels and hopefull a set of batteries in the garage where
they can charge up their electric Porshe runabout.
bliss
The problem with that, though, is when your panels are producing power,
your electric Porsche runabout is usually somewhere else. When it's at
Home, the panels probably aren't producing a lot of power. ;-(
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is 240V
RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the
Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
On 2025-08-13, Carlos E. R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
Telcos systems were subject to strict quality control systems, that
worked. VoIP systems are not.
As an example that anybody can see, the terminals at home had their own
power. Even if the nation had a full power failure, the telephone
network kept running. Anybody could phone emergencies or his cousin.
The terminals (desk telephones) did not have their own power, but were powered over the telephone lines (48V, ca 50 mA) from the central
switching offices. Government regulations required them to have
batteries that could keep everything running for 3 days and diesel
backup generators to work beyond that.
As traffic swictched to cellphones, there were for a long time no such quality standards enforced. Because if the cellphones did not work, we
still had the POTS network to fall back on. And now ATT is asking
permission in several states to completely turn off the wireline
service.
Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is
240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the
Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Normally the diodes are specified to tolerate the Peak Inverse Voltage, which could be nearer 700v for the nominal 240v rms supply. Hence many diodes have a PIV of about 1kV - e.g. 1N4007.
On the flip-side, my sister told me the other day that her Home Phone
line was about to be upgraded to Fibre-to-the-Home.
Ten/Fifteen years or so ago, our Phone system had been upgraded to Fibre-to-the Building for Business and those Home-owners who wanted to
pay the premium for Fibre-to-the-Home. Everyone else just got Fibre-to-the-Node, i.e. the box on the nature-strip somewhere in the
street, then twisted-pair wire to the Home.
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground--
floor as zero.
I think the first family car with seat belts was in '65. Seat belts just like a race car! Considering they were only lap belts they may have been worse than no belt. The best thing they were good for was keeping you
from sliding across the bench seat during spirited cornering. My
girlfriend knew what was coming when I told her to buckle up.
Daniel70 wrote:But, but... when I walk in to a building at the ground level, the floor
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:But, but... when I walk in to a building at the ground level, the floor
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
I encounter there is surely the "first" floor you get to. So the one
above that must be the "second" floor, and so forth. Seems clear to me!
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
On 02/09/2025 11:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple times
on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And that
in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric
kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how
precise such assessments are.
Most kettles are now not 2kW or 3KW any more but 1.5kW due to some
stupid EU green initiative who don't realise it takes more energy to
boil a kettle if it takes longer to do it.
But I think you can still get more powerful ones as it never got to be
'law'
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is
240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the
Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied that
they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be about 90V RMS
(or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd
service.
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac--
and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
On the flip-side, my sister told me the other day that her Home Phone
line was about to be upgraded to Fibre-to-the-Home.
In the UK this is called FTTP (Fibre-To-The-Premises) and it is supposed
to happen for everybody by January 2027, but it has been postponed
several times already. One problem is that there are locations where
FTTP will never be available, and there's no rational alternative that
will work for everybody. So it's likely that copper pairs will support landline phones in such locations for at least another 50 years.
Ten/Fifteen years or so ago, our Phone system had been upgraded to
Fibre-to-the Building for Business and those Home-owners who wanted to
pay the premium for Fibre-to-the-Home. Everyone else just got Fibre-
to-the-Node, i.e. the box on the nature-strip somewhere in the street,
then twisted-pair wire to the Home.
In the UK Fibre-to-the-Node is called Fibre-To-The-Cabinet or FTTC. It's fairly widely available except in crowded cities (no street space) and
rural areas (not enough paying customers).
A further difficulty is that there are still phone users who do not have
and do not want any sort of broadband service. So these people are
being provided with a crippled router which drives a standard handset.
Clearly, the cost and maintenance of VoIP is way less than the cost of copper pairs and exchange switchgear, so it's not surprising that the
telcos are moving this way. But there's been no public explanation that
is meaningful to older users.
One problem is that there are locations where FTTP will never be
available, and there's no rational alternative that will work for everybody. So it's likely that copper pairs will support landline
phones in such locations for at least another 50 years.
On 2/09/2025 1:53 pm, rbowman wrote:
<Snip>
Even the Greeks thought the Gods screwed around with humans when theyIsn't that why 'they' had the word 'demi-god', sort of Half-God,
were bored but had problems of their own too.
half-human??
On 2025-09-02 15:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 11:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple times >>> on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And that
in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric
kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how
precise such assessments are.
Most kettles are now not 2kW or 3KW any more but 1.5kW due to some
stupid EU green initiative who don't realise it takes more energy to
boil a kettle if it takes longer to do it.
But I think you can still get more powerful ones as it never got to be
'law'
I don't know if green, but I remember that there were problems when half
the country plugs in the kettle at the same minute there is an interlude
in Coronation Street ;-)
On 02/09/2025 16:27, Graham J wrote:
One problem is that there are locations where FTTP will never be
available, and there's no rational alternative that will work for
everybody. So it's likely that copper pairs will support landline
phones in such locations for at least another 50 years.
Very few locations where fttp will not be available , and those will
have 5G
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac ptp has the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 16:27, Graham J wrote:
One problem is that there are locations where FTTP will never be
available, and there's no rational alternative that will work for
everybody. So it's likely that copper pairs will support landline
phones in such locations for at least another 50 years.
Very few locations where fttp will not be available , and those will
have 5G
Exactly. I know of at least one - discussed here at length in the past
- where the user has been explicitly told by BT Openreach that he will
never get any sort of digital service.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 22:24:52 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/09/2025 1:53 pm, rbowman wrote:
<Snip>
Even the Greeks thought the Gods screwed around with humans when theyIsn't that why 'they' had the word 'demi-god', sort of Half-God,
were bored but had problems of their own too.
half-human??
I didn't have actual screwing in mind, but there was a lot of that too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%ADgs%C3%BEula
In the Norse canon Rig fathers entire social classes. We still have
thralls, karls, and jarls although as the great philosopher, John Lennon, observed:
'You think you're so clever, classless, and free
but you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4wyARCCl30
On 2025-09-02 18:39, Don_from_AZ wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:But, but... when I walk in to a building at the ground level, the floor
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
I encounter there is surely the "first" floor you get to. So the one
above that must be the "second" floor, and so forth. Seems clear to me!
It is equally clear to me that it is the zero floor, as I did not have
to climb the stairs or the elevator :-)
"Francis Xavier" "Loyola"
Hmm! My youngest sister and her family live in Montmorency, Victoria,
just up the road from St Francis Xavier Church and School (by-the-by my Father's name was Francis Xavier) and Loyola Colledge is a little bit
away down Grimshaw St, Watsonia.
I thought you were Rural Victoria!!
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have
to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
On 2/09/2025 8:15 pm, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have
to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki
article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
On 2025-09-02 18:39, Don_from_AZ wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:But, but... when I walk in to a building at the ground level, the floor
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
I encounter there is surely the "first" floor you get to. So the one
above that must be the "second" floor, and so forth. Seems clear to me!
It is equally clear to me that it is the zero floor, as I did not have
to climb the stairs or the elevator :-)
Ten/Fifteen years or so ago, our Phone system had been upgraded to Fibre-to-the Building for Business and those Home-owners who wanted to
pat the premium for Fibre-to-the-Home. Everyone else just got Fibre-to-the-Node, i.e. the box on the nature-strip somewhere in the
street, then twisted-pair wire to the Home.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 21:59:16 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/09/2025 8:15 pm, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have >>>> to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki
article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
I suppose it's to be expected from people who drive on the wrong side of
the road. If you're in an elevator where there is a parking garage or something below ground, is the ground floor 0?
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:32:44 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
Ten/Fifteen years or so ago, our Phone system had been upgraded to
Fibre-to-the Building for Business and those Home-owners who wanted to
pat the premium for Fibre-to-the-Home. Everyone else just got
Fibre-to-the-Node, i.e. the box on the nature-strip somewhere in the
street, then twisted-pair wire to the Home.
Fibre-to-the-Home would be expensive in this area. Most homes are set back well away from the highway. That's probably why cable never was run out
here.
On 14/08/2025 2:04 pm, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
<Snip>
Well in California we had subsidies and it paid off for home
owners
among whose blessed ranks I will never be counted but we are producing
power from wind and solar and we have batteries to back that up.
Big batteries. Not in your home but close to the sites where that power
is generated.
No subsidies are needed except on the home owners level and
only of course the home owners who can spend the money for solar panels
and hopefull a set of batteries in the garage where they can charge up
their electric Porshe runabout.
bliss
The problem with that, though, is when your panels are producing power,
your electric Porsche runabout is usually somewhere else. When it's at
Home, the panels probably aren't producing a lot of power. ;-(
On 18/08/2025 8:15 am, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 01:15:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:"the Chinese in Panama"?? But I though the Yanks were in Panama??
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 11:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Putting missiles somewhere to defend, isn't an act of aggression.
So why did the US feel so upset about the Soviets basing some missiles
in Cuba, then?
Exactly. Currently the US is also testy about the Chinese in Panama and
they didn't even bring missiles with them afaik.
On 02/09/2025 20:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:32:44 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
Ten/Fifteen years or so ago, our Phone system had been upgraded to
Fibre-to-the Building for Business and those Home-owners who wanted to
pat the premium for Fibre-to-the-Home. Everyone else just got
Fibre-to-the-Node, i.e. the box on the nature-strip somewhere in the
street, then twisted-pair wire to the Home.
Fibre-to-the-Home would be expensive in this area. Most homes are set
back
well away from the highway. That's probably why cable never was run out
here.
The thing is that a crude 'fibre on a wooden pole' setup is actually
very very cheap. Especially if you supply the poles.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 21:59:16 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/09/2025 8:15 pm, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have >>>> to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki
article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
I suppose it's to be expected from people who drive on the wrong side of
the road. If you're in an elevator where there is a parking garage or something below ground, is the ground floor 0?
If the robot ends being flexible, someone will teach them to shoot as aftermarket addon.
On 02/09/2025 19:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac ptp has the
same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Exactly, but with people arguing over which floor comes first, do you
really want to explain all of that?
Tend to agree. Most of that stuff is archaic "graphitti"
and probably done by kids. Not much "profound meaning".
Wonder, what WERE they worshiping at Gobekli Tepe
and related places, 12,000+ years ago
"Please, mystical figure, give us more of these to catch, kill and eat."
Now they were creating art. Like still lives depicting bowls of fruit they were recording the good things of their life and perhaps calling the lives that they would take to sustain their own.
Perhaps it was a callilng on the Earth God to provide but since that was before written language most likely we will never definitively know. Noted that there is somehing online about this matter.
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTub but found this.
<https://dailynews.0tnews.com/quantum-ai-just-decoded-gobekli-tepes-symbols-and-what-it-found-was-godlike/>
More like exploitation of the unconscious mind thru symbolic archetypes.
Very early religion.
My childhood Church was crucifix shaped, High Alter in the Head portion, Nun's 'chapel' in one 'arm', Priests dressing-room in other 'arm', a big 'open space' between those three and the 'congregation down the 'body'
of the church.
"UUs are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to get.”
Apologies to Forrest Gump.
https://cooljugator.com/etymology/en/worship
On 2025-09-02 06:40, c186282 wrote:
RATS ... some day I'll describe the joy of prizing an electrocuted
rat out a motor-starter enclosure in a little pill-box type
building in high summer. They'd also eaten all the exposed wiring -
replaced with steel BX. We intentionally re-located some rat-eating
snakes to and around the structure after ...
I saw a cute sparrow getting inside my kitchen, he had reached the end
when I saw him, or her. He was not scared of me — a previous one tried
to fly away and crashed into the glass of the door to the patio. Not
this one, he just walked slowly to the door and out, small hops. I then
gave it a piece of soft bread which he devoured.
So I bought a feeder for sparrows, and put it among the flower pots
where I saw the bird hide. And pointed an automatic wild life camera to
the area.
Next day I looked at the photos, and saw a rat eating the seeds. No bird
in sight.
Always wondered about the "towers". Clearly mostly 'decorative' - a
homage to the old castles.
On 01/09/2025 12:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I believe well done soldered joints reduce the resistance.
It depends. Solder is more resistive than copper, but if you use plenty
of it.
Apropos of nothing I once connected a Shottky diode across a brushed DC motor to clamp RF spikes, and accidentally soldered it the wrong way round...it got very hot, smoked and *melted all the solder*.
To my surprise, it survived...
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTub
Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is 240V >>>> RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the
Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Normally the diodes are specified to tolerate the Peak Inverse Voltage, which could be nearer 700v for the nominal 240v rms supply. Hence many diodes have a PIV of about 1kV - e.g. 1N4007.
Religious are OF humans, BY humans and ultimately bent
to serve the wants and needs of humans.
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
But, but... when I walk in to a building at the ground level, the floor
I encounter there is surely the "first" floor you get to. So the one
above that must be the "second" floor, and so forth. Seems clear to me!
On 30/08/2025 13:47, c186282 wrote:
Anyway, 'check' or 'cheque' ... convenient paper instrument
for transferring funds. Best for larger transfers.
Golly. I remember those. Haven't used one in years
Hey, ZIP-DRIVES were supposed to be The Future !
Hey, it DID work OK in its day.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:23:31 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 14/08/2025 2:04 pm, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
<Snip>
Well in California we had subsidies and it paid off for home
owners
among whose blessed ranks I will never be counted but we are producing
power from wind and solar and we have batteries to back that up.
Big batteries. Not in your home but close to the sites where that power
is generated.
No subsidies are needed except on the home owners level and
only of course the home owners who can spend the money for solar panels
and hopefull a set of batteries in the garage where they can charge up
their electric Porshe runabout.
bliss
The problem with that, though, is when your panels are producing power,
your electric Porsche runabout is usually somewhere else. When it's at
Home, the panels probably aren't producing a lot of power. ;-(
The Porsche's spare set of batteries are home being charged. That scheme
has been floated out but I don't see it happening. It's not quite like swapping out the spares in my drones.
Bud of mine put a 'gel' bed in his 2nd-floor apartment. HUGE fun
dealing with that when he had to move. Was convinced the floor would
cave in ... and what the hell do you do with "gel" ???
On 01/09/2025 07:32, c186282 wrote:
Wonder, what WERE they worshiping at Gobekli Tepe
and related places, 12,000+ years ago
On 9/1/25 06:19, Daniel70 wrote:
"Please, mystical figure, give us more of these to catch, kill and eat."
On 2025-09-02, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Now they were creating art. Like still lives depicting bowls of fruit >> they were recording the good things of their life and perhaps calling the
lives that they would take to sustain their own.
Perhaps it was a callilng on the Earth God to provide but since that
was before written language most likely we will never definitively know.
Noted that there is somehing online about this matter.
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTub but found this.
<https://dailynews.0tnews.com/quantum-ai-just-decoded-gobekli-tepes-symbols-and-what-it-found-was-godlike/>
More like exploitation of the unconscious mind thru symbolic archetypes.
Very early religion.
That site looks very fishy to me. And the article that you are pointing
to looks to me like pure mumbo-jumbo!
Poor access to "junk men" is also an issue ...
the waste people have become SO picky !
On 9/2/25 6:23 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 12:04, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 12:49 AM, rbowman wrote:Sounds familiar ;-)
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 02:25:20 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:SIX+ decades basically in one place ... and kinda the end of the
As I commented elsewhere, there are so many things "bad", that I'm
going to move to a flat instead, otherwise, yes, surface mount if
they allow it, dunno. I'm aging, so while I still can, before I
can't manage the stairs, I must do the big effort of moving to a
flat.
I dread ever having to move. More than 3 decades in one place and the
crap accumulates. I really have to get into Swedish death cleaning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_death_cleaning
near family line. All THEIR good stuff wound up HERE - not
counting all my own junk.
I just can't deal with it at this point. It's going to be one hell of
an estate sale
Hmmm ... may need to make some kind of bank instrument for the
nearest relative to cover the costs. My lawyer can just stuff it in
with the will. I do pity the heirs.
I thought that fibre on poles was impossible, that the fibre had to be unmovable.
[Warning: thread drift]
On 2025-09-02, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTube
Ah, someone else who feels the way I do. When I'm trying to
search the web for instructions on how to do something, I skip
over videos in favour of text descriptions (which means that
I skip most hits). I hate the idea of having to sit through
20 minutes of video which proceeds at a glacial pace with no
easy, accurate way to skip ahead. Text descriptions, on the
other hand, allow you to skip ahead or jump around at your
discretion, and let you find something in 30 seconds.
And many videos are very poorly done - not even a rehearsal
or gathering of relevant material before hitting the record
button. Ready, fire, aim. (In some cases it would be more
accurate to say "fire, aim, ready".)
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 05:13:21 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hey, ZIP-DRIVES were supposed to be The Future !
Hey, it DID work OK in its day.
Right. I think I may have a QIC-80 drive in my personal museum too,
in the bottom of some crate.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
The main advantage of lap belts was that it is easier to find the bodies
I think the first family car with seat belts was in '65. Seat belts
just like a race car! Considering they were only lap belts they may
have been worse than no belt. The best thing they were good for was
keeping you from sliding across the bench seat during spirited
cornering. My girlfriend knew what was coming when I told her to buckle
up.
if they stay with the car during a rollover accident instead of being
thrown willy-nilly out into the countryside.
[Warning: thread drift]
On 2025-09-02, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTub
Ah, someone else who feels the way I do. When I'm trying to
search the web for instructions on how to do something, I skip
over videos in favour of text descriptions (which means that
I skip most hits). I hate the idea of having to sit through
20 minutes of video which proceeds at a glacial pace with no
easy, accurate way to skip ahead. Text descriptions, on the
other hand, allow you to skip ahead or jump around at your
discretion, and let you find something in 30 seconds.
And many videos are very poorly done - not even a rehearsal
or gathering of relevant material before hitting the record
button. Ready, fire, aim. (In some cases it would be more
accurate to say "fire, aim, ready".)
On Tue, 02 Sep 2025 11:15:09 +0100, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have
to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki
article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
That's as complex as 'Places Where People Drive on the Wrong Side of the Road'. I'll leave 'wrong' to local convention.
On 2025-09-02 20:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 19:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac ptp has the
same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Exactly, but with people arguing over which floor comes first, do
you really want to explain all of that?
LOL :-D
On 2025-09-01, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/09/2025 12:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I believe well done soldered joints reduce the resistance.
It depends. Solder is more resistive than copper, but if you use plenty
of it.
Apropos of nothing I once connected a Shottky diode across a brushed DC
motor to clamp RF spikes, and accidentally soldered it the wrong way
round...it got very hot, smoked and *melted all the solder*.
To my surprise, it survived...
I've been phasing out the 50-watt PAR20 halogen lamps that are all
over our house, replacing burned-out units with 7-watt LED equivalents.
The halogens produce beautiful light, but they run hot as hell.
A common failure mode is that they unsolder their own bases.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 06:10:39 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Bud of mine put a 'gel' bed in his 2nd-floor apartment. HUGE fun
dealing with that when he had to move. Was convinced the floor would
cave in ... and what the hell do you do with "gel" ???
My mother-in-law gave us a king sized bed for a wedding gift. The plan was
to put it in the upstairs bedroom. The layout was three steps up to a
landing from the kitchen, three steps down to the living room, with a
fairly step staircase perpendicular to the landing for upstairs.
The Macy's truck arrived with the bed. I wasn't home but my wife reported that after struggling for a while the crew said 'Lady, that ain't going up there without a chainsaw.''
At least with a water bed all you need is the bag and a hose until
disaster strikes.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 06:04:07 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Poor access to "junk men" is also an issue ...
the waste people have become SO picky !
BestBuy takes electronic waste -- except for CRTs. Want a vintage VGA terminal? Taking them out into the woods and shooting them up is also frowned on.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 11:59:45 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 06:40, c186282 wrote:
RATS ... some day I'll describe the joy of prizing an electrocuted
rat out a motor-starter enclosure in a little pill-box type
building in high summer. They'd also eaten all the exposed wiring - >>> replaced with steel BX. We intentionally re-located some rat-eating >>> snakes to and around the structure after ...
I saw a cute sparrow getting inside my kitchen, he had reached the end
when I saw him, or her. He was not scared of me — a previous one tried
to fly away and crashed into the glass of the door to the patio. Not
this one, he just walked slowly to the door and out, small hops. I then
gave it a piece of soft bread which he devoured.
So I bought a feeder for sparrows, and put it among the flower pots
where I saw the bird hide. And pointed an automatic wild life camera to
the area.
Next day I looked at the photos, and saw a rat eating the seeds. No bird
in sight.
Welcome to the world of nature. I have an automatic feeder for cat kibble. The cats, which includes most of the neighborhood, have the dispensing schedule down pretty well but if they're late the magpies move in.
Apparently in a cat's brain a magpie is too big to mess with.
I haven't seen the raccoons or skunks lately but I don't have the game
camera set up. In the winter I put up a feeder with sunflower seeds for
the birds. The deer enjoy them. I would mind but they tend to destroy the feeders butting them to shake the seeds out. One year a flock of wild
turkeys were hanging around so I got a seed block for them. The deer liked that too, so I got them a deer block. So far the bears haven't gotten wind
of the cafeteria. The rural bears tend to stay up in the woods doing bear stuff but the urban bears home in on pet food.
Mice and rats aren't a problem The cats seem to do their job despite the welfare program. Sometimes. One of the cats was playing with a mouse but abandoned it and came running to the sound of a Friskies lid being opened.
On 02/09/2025 19:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 15:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:That's what Dinorwig is for...
On 02/09/2025 11:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple
times
on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And that >>>> in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric
kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how
precise such assessments are.
Most kettles are now not 2kW or 3KW any more but 1.5kW due to some
stupid EU green initiative who don't realise it takes more energy to
boil a kettle if it takes longer to do it.
But I think you can still get more powerful ones as it never got to
be 'law'
I don't know if green, but I remember that there were problems when
half the country plugs in the kettle at the same minute there is an
interlude in Coronation Street ;-)
On 2025-09-02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 20:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 19:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac ptp has the
same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Exactly, but with people arguing over which floor comes first, do
you really want to explain all of that?
LOL :-D
This gives me an idea. Let's solve the "which floor gets number one"
problem by introducing a scheme which starts numbering from the
*topmost* floor...
On 2025-09-02, rbowman wrote:
That's as complex as 'Places Where People Drive on the Wrong Side of the
Road'. I'll leave 'wrong' to local convention.
To be more comparable, you'd have to call e.g. right-hand driving
"European driving scheme".
On 01/09/2025 07:32, c186282 wrote:
Wonder, what WERE they worshiping at Gobekli Tepe
and related places, 12,000+ years ago
On 9/1/25 06:19, Daniel70 wrote:
"Please, mystical figure, give us more of these to catch, kill and eat."
On 2025-09-02, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Now they were creating art. Like still lives depicting bowls of fruit >> they were recording the good things of their life and perhaps calling the
lives that they would take to sustain their own.
Perhaps it was a callilng on the Earth God to provide but since that
was before written language most likely we will never definitively know.
Noted that there is somehing online about this matter.
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTub but found this.
More like exploitation of the unconscious mind thru symbolic archetypes.<https://dailynews.0tnews.com/quantum-ai-just-decoded-gobekli-tepes-symbols-and-what-it-found-was-godlike/>
Very early religion.
That site looks very fishy to me. And the article that you are pointing
to looks to me like pure mumbo-jumbo!
Very mixed up. The original Hebrew arrangement was refined into big G at
the top in charge of Creation and angels and demi-urges who took care of
the details.
That maps exactly onto the 'Big Bang' and the 'laws of nature', once you remove the anthropic element...
On 2/09/2025 6:29 am, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 23:56:37 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:My childhood Church was crucifix shaped, High Alter in the Head portion, Nun's 'chapel' in one 'arm', Priests dressing-room in other 'arm', a big 'open space' between those three and the 'congregation down the 'body'
Yeap ... and not yet having learnt Latin, I had bugger idea what was
being said AND I WAS AN ALTER SERVER!!
The important part was 'p: Ite missa est. R: Deo gratias!' ('Go, the
Mass
is ended. Thank God!'
I think that was a feature rather than a bug.' The pomp, ceremony,
Latin,
vestments, candle, incense, bells, and so on established a sense of the
sacred and mysterious different from every day life. The rite was
centered around the Transubstantiation, a sacred mystery.
Subtract too much of that awe and mystery and you tend to slip into the
memorialism of most of the Protestant denominations. The Lutherans sit on
the fence with consubstantiation.
The same goes for the physical design of a church. One church in town is
modern, or was at least modern when it was built 30? years ago. The pews
are in a semicircular arrangement. It feels like a bus station.
I'm probably wrong but I think tradition plays a larger role in people's
lives than they will admit.
of the church.
Everybody knew where they were supposed to be!!
When the Priest was turned around to face the congregation, a new table
was placed in the middle of the 'open space'.
On 18/08/2025 8:15 am, rbowman wrote:
On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 01:15:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro wrote:"the Chinese in Panama"?? But I though the Yanks were in Panama??
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 11:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Putting missiles somewhere to defend, isn't an act of
aggression.
So why did the US feel so upset about the Soviets basing some
missiles in Cuba, then?
Exactly. Currently the US is also testy about the Chinese in Panama
and they didn't even bring missiles with them afaik.
On 01/09/2025 22:26, rbowman wrote:
On Mon, 1 Sep 2025 10:55:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:No.
That all happened over a period of years. My parents house built in 1953 >>> had rubber wiring *in steel conduit* which was the 'earth'.
BX?
https://www.thespruce.com/bx-wire-guide-to-armored-electrical-
cable-1821519
What I said, Red and black rubber insulated wires in round steel conduit.
On 2025-09-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
"UUs are like a box of chocolates, you never know what you’re going to
get.”
Apologies to Forrest Gump.
https://cooljugator.com/etymology/en/worship
"UU's do not all think alike, but they all think!"
On 18/08/2025 8:32 am, Bobbie Sellers wrote:> On 8/17/25 15:15, rbowman wrote:
.... and the "duck and cover"!! ;-)On Sun, 17 Aug 2025 01:15:40 -0000 (UTC), Lawrence D’Oliveiro
wrote:
On Sat, 16 Aug 2025 11:31:42 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
wrote:
Putting missiles somewhere to defend, isn't an act of
aggression.
So why did the US feel so upset about the Soviets basing some
missiles in Cuba, then?
Exactly. Currently the US is also testy about the Chinese in Panama
and they didn't even bring missiles with them afaik.
Missiles in Cuba were the older shorter range missiles but put DC in
range of attack.
The Chinese in Panama deliberately avoided bringing missiles with them.
They will wait until Trump or another imbecile is making more
threats then the Panamanian elite will want some for defense along
with the experts to train the locals in their effective use of
anti-missile misseles and/or drones...
bliss
Ah, someone else who feels the way I do. When I'm trying to search the
web for instructions on how to do something, I skip over videos in
favour of text descriptions (which means that I skip most hits).
USA - black and white ... and green for ground.
Don't put your finger on the black wire(s) !
On 02/09/2025 11:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple times
on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And that
in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric
kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how
precise such assessments are.
Most kettles are now not 2kW or 3KW any more but 1.5kW due to some
stupid EU green initiative who don't realise it takes more energy to
boil a kettle if it takes longer to do it.
But I think you can still get more powerful ones as it never got to be
'law'
On 02/09/2025 11:17, Carlos E.R. wrote:
With a fuse on the cable of the appliance, the fuse can be preciselyThe fuse is to protect the wiring FROM the wall to the appliance
calibrated to the actual load. But you also need an RCD to protect the
wiring.
On 02/09/2025 12:59, Daniel70 wrote:
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of aDepends on the slope the house is built on
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
On 14/08/2025 2:04 pm, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
<Snip>
Well in California we had subsidies and it paid off for home owners
among whose blessed ranks I will never be counted but we are producing
power from wind and solar and we have batteries to back that up.
Big batteries. Not in your home but close to the sites where that power
is generated.
No subsidies are needed except on the home owners level and
only of course the home owners who can spend the money for
solar panels and hopefull a set of batteries in the garage where
they can charge up their electric Porshe runabout.
bliss
The problem with that, though, is when your panels are producing power,
your electric Porsche runabout is usually somewhere else. When it's at
Home, the panels probably aren't producing a lot of power. ;-(
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is
240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the
Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Normally the diodes are specified to tolerate the Peak Inverse Voltage, which could be nearer 700v for the nominal 240v rms supply. Hence many diodes have a PIV of about 1kV - e.g. 1N4007.
Gosh, this land is civilized, no fauna :-DD
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
On the flip-side, my sister told me the other day that her Home Phone
line was about to be upgraded to Fibre-to-the-Home.
In the UK this is called FTTP (Fibre-To-The-Premises) and it is supposed
to happen for everybody by January 2027, but it has been postponed
several times already. One problem is that there are locations where
FTTP will never be available, and there's no rational alternative that
will work for everybody. So it's likely that copper pairs will support landline phones in such locations for at least another 50 years.
Well have you ever read Jungian psychology? That is full ofexposition
on archetypes.
rbowman <bowman@montana.com> writes:
The main advantage of lap belts was that it is easier to find the bodies
I think the first family car with seat belts was in '65. Seat belts just
like a race car! Considering they were only lap belts they may have been
worse than no belt. The best thing they were good for was keeping you
from sliding across the bench seat during spirited cornering. My
girlfriend knew what was coming when I told her to buckle up.
if they stay with the car during a rollover accident instead of being
thrown willy-nilly out into the countryside.
On 2025-09-02 16:24, Graham J wrote:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
That's what we do in Spain and most of Europe.
I'm also scratching my head over what "quantum AI" is supposed to mean
-- sounds like a buzzword.
On 2025-09-02 23:34, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 06:04:07 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Poor access to "junk men" is also an issue ...
the waste people have become SO picky !
BestBuy takes electronic waste -- except for CRTs. Want a vintage VGA
terminal? Taking them out into the woods and shooting them up is also
frowned on.
I daresay! :-D
Although I confess to having destroyed one or two myself. No shooting
here, though. Not allowed.
On 2025-09-02, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 05:13:21 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hey, ZIP-DRIVES were supposed to be The Future !
Hey, it DID work OK in its day.
Right. I think I may have a QIC-80 drive in my personal museum too,
in the bottom of some crate.
I'll see your QIC and raise you a SyQuest removable hard drive (45MB).
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is
240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the >>>>> Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied that
they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be about 90V RMS
(or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd
service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac ptp has the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac
and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 22:24:52 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/09/2025 1:53 pm, rbowman wrote:
<Snip>
Even the Greeks thought the Gods screwed around with humans when theyIsn't that why 'they' had the word 'demi-god', sort of Half-God,
were bored but had problems of their own too.
half-human??
I didn't have actual screwing in mind, but there was a lot of that too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%ADgs%C3%BEula
In the Norse canon Rig fathers entire social classes. We still have
thralls, karls, and jarls although as the great philosopher, John Lennon, observed:
'You think you're so clever, classless, and free
but you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4wyARCCl30
On 2025-09-02 23:29, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 06:10:39 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Bud of mine put a 'gel' bed in his 2nd-floor apartment. HUGE fun
dealing with that when he had to move. Was convinced the floor
would cave in ... and what the hell do you do with "gel" ???
My mother-in-law gave us a king sized bed for a wedding gift. The plan
was to put it in the upstairs bedroom. The layout was three steps up to
a landing from the kitchen, three steps down to the living room, with a
fairly step staircase perpendicular to the landing for upstairs.
The Macy's truck arrived with the bed. I wasn't home but my wife
reported that after struggling for a while the crew said 'Lady, that
ain't going up there without a chainsaw.''
Was that bed fully assembled? Here beds are sold disassembled.
On 02/09/2025 19:27, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 22:24:52 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:Very mixed up. The original Hebrew arrangement was refined into big G at
On 2/09/2025 1:53 pm, rbowman wrote:
<Snip>
Even the Greeks thought the Gods screwed around with humans when theyIsn't that why 'they' had the word 'demi-god', sort of Half-God,
were bored but had problems of their own too.
half-human??
I didn't have actual screwing in mind, but there was a lot of that too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%ADgs%C3%BEula
In the Norse canon Rig fathers entire social classes. We still have
thralls, karls, and jarls although as the great philosopher, John Lennon,
observed:
'You think you're so clever, classless, and free
but you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4wyARCCl30
the top in charge of Creation and angels and demi-urges who took care of
the details.
That maps exactly onto the 'Big Bang' and the 'laws of nature', once you remove the anthropic element...
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 23:07:05 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
"Francis Xavier" "Loyola"
Hmm! My youngest sister and her family live in Montmorency, Victoria,
just up the road from St Francis Xavier Church and School (by-the-by my
Father's name was Francis Xavier) and Loyola Colledge is a little bit
away down Grimshaw St, Watsonia.
I thought you were Rural Victoria!!
No rural Montana. Thanks to the Brave search engine:
https://jesuit.org.au/wp-content/uploads/the-history-of-the-jesuits-in- australia.pdf
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 21:59:16 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/09/2025 8:15 pm, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have >>>> to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki
article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
I suppose it's to be expected from people who drive on the wrong side of
the road. If you're in an elevator where there is a parking garage or something below ground, is the ground floor 0?
On 2025-09-01, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/09/2025 12:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I believe well done soldered joints reduce the resistance.
It depends. Solder is more resistive than copper, but if you use plenty
of it.
Apropos of nothing I once connected a Shottky diode across a brushed DC
motor to clamp RF spikes, and accidentally soldered it the wrong way
round...it got very hot, smoked and *melted all the solder*.
To my surprise, it survived...
I've been phasing out the 50-watt PAR20 halogen lamps that are all
over our house, replacing burned-out units with 7-watt LED equivalents.
The halogens produce beautiful light, but they run hot as hell.
A common failure mode is that they unsolder their own bases.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:47:30 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Gosh, this land is civilized, no fauna :-DD
The joys of civilization. I remember going to the Indiana state museum.
One exhibit claimed almost all non-domestic fauna had been killed off by
the early 20th century. They started reintroducing deer and other species
in the '40s and there was a deer season when I was there in the '80s.
Farmers absolutely hate any animal that they can't send to market.
Some eastern states have reintroduced elk. In this state wolves
reintroduced themselves and that's rather controversial. Grizzly bears
never were eliminated but they've started increasing their range, also controversial. There are a number of bison ranches but the free roaming
bison at Yellowstone are also a problem due to the possibility of
brucellosis transmission.
It keeps life interesting.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 20:20:12 -0000 (UTC), Lars Poulsen <lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com> wrote in <slrn10bekbs.2vt1s.lars@cleo.beagle-ears.com>:
On 01/09/2025 07:32, c186282 wrote:
Wonder, what WERE they worshiping at Gobekli Tepe
and related places, 12,000+ years ago
On 9/1/25 06:19, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2025-09-02, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:"Please, mystical figure, give us more of these to catch, kill and eat." >>
Now they were creating art. Like still lives depicting bowls of fruit >>> they were recording the good things of their life and perhaps calling the >>> lives that they would take to sustain their own.
Perhaps it was a callilng on the Earth God to provide but since that >>> was before written language most likely we will never definitively know. >>> Noted that there is somehing online about this matter.
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTub but found this.
<https://dailynews.0tnews.com/quantum-ai-just-decoded-gobekli-tepes-symbols-and-what-it-found-was-godlike/>
More like exploitation of the unconscious mind thru symbolic archetypes.
Very early religion.
That site looks very fishy to me. And the article that you are pointing
to looks to me like pure mumbo-jumbo!
Well, I read the article, and it seemed like it started okay, but descended into woo-woo.
I'm also scratching my head over what "quantum AI" is supposed to
mean -- sounds like a buzzword.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:40:49 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 23:29, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 06:10:39 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Bud of mine put a 'gel' bed in his 2nd-floor apartment. HUGE fun
dealing with that when he had to move. Was convinced the floor
would cave in ... and what the hell do you do with "gel" ???
My mother-in-law gave us a king sized bed for a wedding gift. The plan
was to put it in the upstairs bedroom. The layout was three steps up to
a landing from the kitchen, three steps down to the living room, with a
fairly step staircase perpendicular to the landing for upstairs.
The Macy's truck arrived with the bed. I wasn't home but my wife
reported that after struggling for a while the crew said 'Lady, that
ain't going up there without a chainsaw.''
Was that bed fully assembled? Here beds are sold disassembled.
It was disassembled but box springs don't bend in the middle like a
mattress. We probably could have went with the mattress on the floor but
it was the whole deal or nothing.
They say that gods remembered still live, so,
Hail Woden ! A kick-ass god
Have yet to see a good study about the human perceptual diff between
old 'analog'/ 'filament', light sources and LEDS. The LEDs FAKE it,
but the spectrum is NOT very linear,
lots of peaks and valleys.
Hide under your school desk ! That's what they taught us. There were
drills.
USA - black and white ... and green for ground.
Don't put your finger on the black wire(s) !
On 2025-09-02 21:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 20:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:32:44 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
Ten/Fifteen years or so ago, our Phone system had been upgraded to
Fibre-to-the Building for Business and those Home-owners who wanted to >>>> pat the premium for Fibre-to-the-Home. Everyone else just got
Fibre-to-the-Node, i.e. the box on the nature-strip somewhere in the
street, then twisted-pair wire to the Home.
Fibre-to-the-Home would be expensive in this area. Most homes are set
back
well away from the highway. That's probably why cable never was run out
here.
The thing is that a crude 'fibre on a wooden pole' setup is actually
very very cheap. Especially if you supply the poles.
That is done here.
I thought that fibre on poles was impossible, that the fibre had to be unmovable.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 23:53:38 -0400, c186282 wrote:
USA - black and white ... and green for ground.
Don't put your finger on the black wire(s) !
My father worked in a shipyard at one time where black was negative. I learned to approach his wiring with caution.
Gosh, this land is civilized, no fauna :-DD
I see sparrows and pigeons. Rats I don't see, they are too shy. I gave
it a present, taken from a box that said "rat poison". Will take a week
or two to work.
Wild boars somewhere.
Fiber ...
First off, is there an adapter so your good
old landline phone/answerer can still work ?
Older people may have 'emergency' buttons that
only work with a landline. But then the UK seems
to want everyone over 50 to Just Die.
Oh, finally, emergencies - the old hardwire
tends to be the LAST thing destroyed and the
first thing back up. Personal experience there.
I will keep a traditional hardline as long as
possible, regardless of the punitive pricing.
On 2025-09-02 20:33, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 19:08, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 15:47, The Natural Philosopher wrote:That's what Dinorwig is for...
On 02/09/2025 11:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple
times
on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And
that
in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric >>>>> kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how >>>>> precise such assessments are.
Most kettles are now not 2kW or 3KW any more but 1.5kW due to some
stupid EU green initiative who don't realise it takes more energy to
boil a kettle if it takes longer to do it.
But I think you can still get more powerful ones as it never got to
be 'law'
I don't know if green, but I remember that there were problems when
half the country plugs in the kettle at the same minute there is an
interlude in Coronation Street ;-)
Heh.
I'd bet that the utilities still prefer that all kettles halve their power.
On 2025-09-02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 20:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 19:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac ptp has the
same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Exactly, but with people arguing over which floor comes first, do
you really want to explain all of that?
LOL :-D
This gives me an idea. Let's solve the "which floor gets number one"
problem by introducing a scheme which starts numbering from the
*topmost* floor...
And yea ... fiber-to-EVERYWHERE is not going to
happen anytime soon.
Re-check your calculations. SO many ways toTotal bollox
define "power".
120vac, in practice, delivers almost the same
power as 90vdc. Voltages are close enough so
there are no insulation/heat concerns.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:02:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hide under your school desk ! That's what they taught us. There were
drills.
We went out into the hallway, crouched down, and kissed our asses goodbye. Having the Watervliet Arsenal, home of the atomic cannon, in the
neighborhood didn't inspire confidence if the shooting started.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M65_atomic_cannon
I'm not sure chucking a 20 kiloton atomic bomb 7 miles down the road was a well thought out idea. When the Arsenal had an open house the barrel was
up on saw horses so you could look down the bore. Impressive.
On 2025-09-02, Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 2025-09-02, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 20:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 19:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac ptp has the
same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Exactly, but with people arguing over which floor comes first, do
you really want to explain all of that?
LOL :-D
This gives me an idea. Let's solve the "which floor gets number one"
problem by introducing a scheme which starts numbering from the
*topmost* floor...
What do you do if you add a few floors to an existing building?
On 02/09/2025 11:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple times
on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And that
in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric
kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how
precise such assessments are.
Most kettles are now not 2kW or 3KW any more but 1.5kW due to some
stupid EU green initiative who don't realise it takes more energy to
boil a kettle if it takes longer to do it.
But I think you can still get more powerful ones as it never got to be 'law'
On 9/2/25 2:42 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 19:27, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 22:24:52 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:Very mixed up. The original Hebrew arrangement was refined into big G
On 2/09/2025 1:53 pm, rbowman wrote:
<Snip>
Even the Greeks thought the Gods screwed around with humans when they >>>>> were bored but had problems of their own too.Isn't that why 'they' had the word 'demi-god', sort of Half-God,
half-human??
I didn't have actual screwing in mind, but there was a lot of that too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R%C3%ADgs%C3%BEula
In the Norse canon Rig fathers entire social classes. We still have
thralls, karls, and jarls although as the great philosopher, John
Lennon,
observed:
'You think you're so clever, classless, and free
but you're still fucking peasants as far as I can see.'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4wyARCCl30
at the top in charge of Creation and angels and demi-urges who took
care of the details.
That maps exactly onto the 'Big Bang' and the 'laws of nature', once
you remove the anthropic element...
It's all, intellectually, COOL eh ? :-)
Nope - it's level #1.
As for "wrong side" - Brits clearly have it WRONG 🙂
Ten/Fifteen years or so ago, our Phone system had been upgraded to >Fibre-to-the Building for Business and those Home-owners who wanted to
pat the premium for Fibre-to-the-Home. Everyone else just got >Fibre-to-the-Node, i.e. the box on the nature-strip somewhere in the
street, then twisted-pair wire to the Home.
Here in the UK there are sometimes storms which in remote areas will
knock out power for up to 10 days - simply because the power companies haven't the manpower to go out and repair the damaged lines/poles. But when granny rings up to ask when her power will be restored they lie and
say "tomorrow" so she stays put in her now freezing home. If they were honest she could make other arrangements before she dies of cold.
c186282 wrote:
[snip]
Fiber ...
What country are you in?
First off, is there an adapter so your good
old landline phone/answerer can still work ?
Sort of. The router will have a RJ11 socket and in the UK will come
with an adapter so a conventional wired phone will plug in using its
British Standard BS 6312 plug. But the answering facility might well
not work properly.
Older people may have 'emergency' buttons that
only work with a landline. But then the UK seems
to want everyone over 50 to Just Die.
Most "emergency" buttons will fail. If you know of a user, please help them find out whether theirs will work. The supplier might not have
much idea, so be determined ....
Oh, finally, emergencies - the old hardwire
tends to be the LAST thing destroyed and the
first thing back up. Personal experience there.
I will keep a traditional hardline as long as
possible, regardless of the punitive pricing.
5G is fine for short term failures, say about an hour.
Here in the UK there are sometimes storms which in remote areas will
knock out power for up to 10 days - simply because the power companies haven't the manpower to go out and repair the damaged lines/poles. But when granny rings up to ask when her power will be restored they lie and
say "tomorrow" so she stays put in her now freezing home. If they were honest she could make other arrangements before she dies of cold.
There is NO easy fix for a nukewar. 99+ percent
will DIE, probably in a horrible manner.
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/09/2025 11:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple times >>> on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And that
in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric
kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how
precise such assessments are.
Most kettles are now not 2kW or 3KW any more but 1.5kW due to some
stupid EU green initiative who don't realise it takes more energy to
boil a kettle if it takes longer to do it.
Sorry to confuse your predjudices with facts, but Geizhals.de lists
over 1000 2 kW kettles and still 56 3 kW kettles. Of the 135 models
that made the market in 2025, 103 have >= 2 kW.
I neither see any limit, and the only stupidity I see here is not in
the EU.
But I think you can still get more powerful ones as it never got to be 'law'
In Germany, wall socket circuits are maximally fused with 16 A, so
there ain't more than 3600 W pulled from a single socket. Most
electric water kettles (and washing machines) limit themselves to 2 kW
to still be safe in bad installations and to not accidentally trip the breaker when something else on the same circuit is switched on.
Greetings--
Marc
On 03/09/2025 06:24, c186282 wrote:
And yea ... fiber-to-EVERYWHERE is not going to
happen anytime soon.
In the UK the gummint has mandated 97% coverage by 2030 IIRC
And thrown money at the installers to make it happen.
On 03/09/2025 06:45, c186282 wrote:
Re-check your calculations. SO many ways to
define "power".
120vac, in practice, delivers almost the same
power as 90vdc. Voltages are close enough so
there are no insulation/heat concerns.
Total bollox
120VAC is DEFINED to deliver the same power as 120v DC.
That's what RMS is all about
On 03/09/2025 10:02, c186282 wrote:
There is NO easy fix for a nukewar. 99+ percent
will DIE, probably in a horrible manner.
Experiences at Hiroshima and elsewhere produce the following
- you really want to be blocked from the direct radiation by large
amounts of earth or concrete. A desk wont be much good but a cellar would,
- your next problem is blast. Again you need large quantities of earth
or concrete to hide behind, or distance.
- for a rather smaller number of people, radiation sickness will get
them in a few days. Again large quantities of earth or concrete are
helpful.
If the above don't get you, you will very likely survive. The myth of fallout is - unless its deliberately induced in e,g. a cobalt bomb -
simply a non problem. Likewise nuclear winter etc etc.
The actual data shows that the bast majority of deaths are from being vaporised or blown to bits . In either case you might as well not worry.
You wont feel a thing.
For a small minority, a nasty death from radiation exposure calls.
For most of the rest of the population, the danger is total disruption
of a modern infrastructure. Food water power sanitation etc.
They wont normally all die. You are using nukes to mainly threaten.,
They are not a great deal of use beyond that unless you are going for
e.g. complete sterilisation and using a neutron bomb.
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and transport infrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is not with ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant oligarchy and a
war machine they control.
So take out the oligarchs and the war machine.
Only the 3rd world islamists would like to commit genocide on an entire population.
On 03/09/2025 10:11, Marc Haber wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:As I said, that one wws tried but bnever made it into law.
On 02/09/2025 11:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple
times
on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And that >>>> in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric
kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how
precise such assessments are.
Most kettles are now not 2kW or 3KW any more but 1.5kW due to some
stupid EU green initiative who don't realise it takes more energy to
boil a kettle if it takes longer to do it.
Sorry to confuse your predjudices with facts, but Geizhals.de lists
over 1000 2 kW kettles and still 56 3 kW kettles. Of the 135 models
that made the market in 2025, 103 have >= 2 kW.
I neither see any limit, and the only stupidity I see here is not in
the EU.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-pauses-plans-to-ban-super-strength-kettles-out-of-fear-it-would-drive-tea-loving-britons-towards-brexit-a6899551.html
Its amazing how blind people are to the EU idiocy.
I used to have a 3KW one but it died. It was hard to get another, 1.5But I think you can still get more powerful ones as it never got to
be 'law'
In Germany, wall socket circuits are maximally fused with 16 A, so
there ain't more than 3600 W pulled from a single socket. Most
electric water kettles (and washing machines) limit themselves to 2 kW
to still be safe in bad installations and to not accidentally trip the
breaker when something else on the same circuit is switched on.
and 2KW.
On 9/3/25 5:00 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 06:24, c186282 wrote:
And yea ... fiber-to-EVERYWHERE is not going to
happen anytime soon.
In the UK the gummint has mandated 97% coverage by 2030 IIRC
2030 ? LONG time.
And they'll fall WELL short, bet on it.
UK 'govt' - what a JOKE now.
And thrown money at the installers to make it happen.
Ummmm ... the UK doesn't HAVE any more money.
It's about six months from an actual popular
revolution - flames and lynchings and everything.
On 9/3/25 5:02 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 06:45, c186282 wrote:
Re-check your calculations. SO many ways to
define "power".
120vac, in practice, delivers almost the same
power as 90vdc. Voltages are close enough so
there are no insulation/heat concerns.
Total bollox
Nope. Check it out.
120VAC is DEFINED to deliver the same power as 120v DC.
No. Not quite.
That's what RMS is all about
Edison held on for a LONG time. Kept
selling DC even as real world uses
changed rapidly.
So, for PRACTICAL purposes, 120vac was
meant to be "close enough" to Edison's
90vdc "energy-wise".
Low-voltage DC works just fine. Good stuff.--
Alas you can't transmit it far. Need a little
power plant every few blocks.
Tesla/Westlinghouse WON in the end - but
it TOOK awhile.
On 9/3/25 5:34 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 10:02, c186282 wrote:
There is NO easy fix for a nukewar. 99+ percent
will DIE, probably in a horrible manner.
Experiences at Hiroshima and elsewhere produce the following
- you really want to be blocked from the direct radiation by large
amounts of earth or concrete. A desk wont be much good but a cellar
would,
- your next problem is blast. Again you need large quantities of earth
or concrete to hide behind, or distance.
- for a rather smaller number of people, radiation sickness will get
them in a few days. Again large quantities of earth or concrete are
helpful.
If the above don't get you, you will very likely survive. The myth of
fallout is - unless its deliberately induced in e,g. a cobalt bomb -
simply a non problem. Likewise nuclear winter etc etc.
The actual data shows that the bast majority of deaths are from being
vaporised or blown to bits . In either case you might as well not
worry. You wont feel a thing.
For a small minority, a nasty death from radiation exposure calls.
For most of the rest of the population, the danger is total disruption
of a modern infrastructure. Food water power sanitation etc.
They wont normally all die. You are using nukes to mainly threaten.,
They are not a great deal of use beyond that unless you are going for
e.g. complete sterilisation and using a neutron bomb.
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave
people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful
fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and
transport infrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is
not with ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant
oligarchy and a war machine they control.
So take out the oligarchs and the war machine.
Only the 3rd world islamists would like to commit genocide on an
entire population.
Hiroshima/Nagasaki - SUB 20kt.
Modern nukes - ten to a hundred times stronger.
Russia stocks a few 1000 times stronger.
Maybe a very few 10,000 times stronger.
So, WAKE UP, we CAN'T do this thing.
On 9/3/25 5:37 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 10:11, Marc Haber wrote:
The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:As I said, that one wws tried but bnever made it into law.
On 02/09/2025 11:03, Nuno Silva wrote:
I think one notorious difference that I've seen mentioned a couple
times
on the web is that water kettles will boil water more quickly. And
that
in the US stovetop kettles were more often seen because such electric >>>>> kettles wouldn't be as fast as in ~240V. Now I've got no idea of how >>>>> precise such assessments are.
Most kettles are now not 2kW or 3KW any more but 1.5kW due to some
stupid EU green initiative who don't realise it takes more energy to
boil a kettle if it takes longer to do it.
Sorry to confuse your predjudices with facts, but Geizhals.de lists
over 1000 2 kW kettles and still 56 3 kW kettles. Of the 135 models
that made the market in 2025, 103 have >= 2 kW.
I neither see any limit, and the only stupidity I see here is not in
the EU.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-pauses-plans-to-ban-super-strength-kettles-out-of-fear-it-would-drive-tea-loving-britons-towards-brexit-a6899551.html
Its amazing how blind people are to the EU idiocy.
I used to have a 3KW one but it died. It was hard to get another, 1.5But I think you can still get more powerful ones as it never got to
be 'law'
In Germany, wall socket circuits are maximally fused with 16 A, so
there ain't more than 3600 W pulled from a single socket. Most
electric water kettles (and washing machines) limit themselves to 2 kW
to still be safe in bad installations and to not accidentally trip the
breaker when something else on the same circuit is switched on.
and 2KW.
DEPRESSING that there are no world standards THIS
far on ! Hell, even just 'western' standards !
On 9/2/25 6:58 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-08-05 01:34, Paul wrote:
"In October 2022, the company signed a pledge saying it
would not support any weaponization of its robotic creations."
If the robot ends being flexible, someone will teach them to shoot as
aftermarket addon.
Yep ... probably already have :-)
The robots ARE graceful. Alas they also come with
a thick wire to the mainframe. The algos are not
"in their heads". Unclear whether even 6-G could
provide enough real-time control.
On 30/08/2025 13:47, c186282 wrote:
Anyway, 'check' or 'cheque' ... convenient paper instrumentGolly. I remember those. Haven't used one in years
for transferring funds. Best for larger transfers.
On 02/09/2025 12:59, Daniel70 wrote:
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of aDepends on the slope the house is built on
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
Daniel70 wrote:the rest of the (sensible) world!! ;-P
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
.... except the Yank Ground floors are at Ground level .... just like in
On 2025-09-02 18:39, Don_from_AZ wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:But, but... when I walk in to a building at the ground level,
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front
Door of a House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I
MUST be on THE *GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!! If I then go
up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is
true in France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their
ground floor as zero.
the floor I encounter there is surely the "first" floor you get
to. So the one above that must be the "second" floor, and so
forth. Seems clear to me!
It is equally clear to me that it is the zero floor, as I did not
have to climb the stairs or the elevator :-)
Street floor. And you leave out the sub-floors of which their may
be several in large buildings. Generally if there are offices or
shops it may be the first floor but even if not you will take stairs
or elevators to the 2nd floor and higher. I used to in my youth run
up and down 4 flights of stairs to avoid waiting for the elevator.
No direct accsss to the sub-floors which had some parking space for
people who came by auto. Just to add to the confusion but...
bliss--
That has not been my experience. Usually the power companies respond
very quickly and have rapid info available immediately, and do updates
every hour or two as and when the field engineers report in.
You can in fact - and I have - add yourself to the list of 'people they text' when an incident occurs.
On 2025-09-02 18:39, Don_from_AZ wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:But, but... when I walk in to a building at the ground level, the floor
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
I encounter there is surely the "first" floor you get to. So the one
above that must be the "second" floor, and so forth. Seems clear to me!
It is equally clear to me that it is the zero floor, as I did not have
to climb the stairs or the elevator :-)
On 2/09/2025 11:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 12:59, Daniel70 wrote:Nobody builds houses on slopes, do they?? ;-P
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of aDepends on the slope the house is built on
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
On 2025-09-02, Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
But, but... when I walk in to a building at the ground level, the floor
I encounter there is surely the "first" floor you get to. So the one
above that must be the "second" floor, and so forth. Seems clear to me!
Ah, zero-based vs. one-based counting. We're almost back onto a programming-related topic, fencepost errors and all.
How about the way many buildings skip certain floor numbers
(e.g. 13) for superstitious reasons? There are buildings
here in Vancouver (which has a significant Chinese population)
which also omit any number containing 4, putting the 12th and
15th floors adjacent.
Fire departments are pushing back against
this trend, since it makes it hard for them to count their way
up to a floor where a fire is burning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia--
On 9/2/25 2:01 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 16:24, Graham J wrote:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
That's what we do in Spain and most of Europe.
USA is NOT going to comply. The level you walk
into from street level is the FIRST floor.
Above/below, number accordingly.
There IS NO "floor zero" ever.
On 9/2/25 5:22 PM, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-09-01, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/09/2025 12:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I believe well done soldered joints reduce the resistance.
It depends. Solder is more resistive than copper, but if you use plenty
of it.
Apropos of nothing I once connected a Shottky diode across a brushed DC
motor to clamp RF spikes, and accidentally soldered it the wrong way
round...it got very hot, smoked and *melted all the solder*.
To my surprise, it survived...
I've been phasing out the 50-watt PAR20 halogen lamps that are all
over our house, replacing burned-out units with 7-watt LED equivalents.
The halogens produce beautiful light, but they run hot as hell.
A common failure mode is that they unsolder their own bases.
Halogens run DANGEROUSLY hot !
DO make nice light, but ...
Stick to LED from now on.
Have yet to see a good study about the
human perceptual diff between old 'analog'/
'filament', light sources and LEDS. The LEDs
FAKE it, but the spectrum is NOT very linear,
lots of peaks and valleys.
Can human perceptions SEE that ???
Not OUTRIGHT, but maybe on more subtle levels.
How can that affect us ?
On 2/09/2025 11:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 12:59, Daniel70 wrote:Nobody builds houses on slopes, do they?? ;-P
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of aDepends on the slope the house is built on
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
On 3/09/2025 7:22 am, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-09-02, Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR* >>>>> *ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in >>>> France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
But, but... when I walk in to a building at the ground level, the floor
I encounter there is surely the "first" floor you get to. So the one
above that must be the "second" floor, and so forth. Seems clear to me!
Ah, zero-based vs. one-based counting. We're almost back onto a
programming-related topic, fencepost errors and all.
How about the way many buildings skip certain floor numbers
(e.g. 13) for superstitious reasons? There are buildings
here in Vancouver (which has a significant Chinese population)
which also omit any number containing 4, putting the 12th and
15th floors adjacent.
Do your buildings also go directly from the 39th floor to the 50th floor (skipping all the 4xth floors)??
Fire departments are pushing back against
this trend, since it makes it hard for them to count their way
up to a floor where a fire is burning.
Why do they need to count?? Surely they start at the Ground-level floor
and just keep climbing until it gets really, really, hot??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia
The Natural Philosopher wrote:
[snip]
That has not been my experience. Usually the power companies respond
very quickly and have rapid info available immediately, and do updates
every hour or two as and when the field engineers report in.
You can in fact - and I have - add yourself to the list of 'people
they text' when an incident occurs.
Some history here:
<https://www.theblackoutreport.co.uk/2022/02/21/storm-eunice-february-2022/>
<https://www.preventionweb.net/news/how-extreme-weather-threatens-bring-down-uks-power-lines-and-halt-supply-homes>
I particularly remember news items about storm Dudley in February 2022
with many reports of a 10-day blackout.
But I think following Dudley the power companies have been rather more honest about how long it will take them to fix things. They're no
faster - obviously - the manpower and equipment limitations are still
the same - but at least it allows granny to go and stay with her grandchildren.
On 3/09/2025 7:22 am, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-09-02, Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:
How about the way many buildings skip certain floor numbers
(e.g. 13) for superstitious reasons? There are buildings
here in Vancouver (which has a significant Chinese population)
which also omit any number containing 4, putting the 12th and
15th floors adjacent.
Do your buildings also go directly from the 39th floor to the 50th floor (skipping all the 4xth floors)??
Fire departments are pushing back against
this trend, since it makes it hard for them to count their way
up to a floor where a fire is burning.
Why do they need to count?? Surely they start at the Ground-level floor
and just keep climbing until it gets really, really, hot??
--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia
On 31/08/2025 8:44 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 30/08/2025 13:47, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Anyway, 'check' or 'cheque' ... convenient paper instrumentGolly. I remember those. Haven't used one in years
for transferring funds. Best for larger transfers.
Christmas, 2023, I gave my nieces and nephew cheques for Christmas.
Last year, 2024, I did it by Funds Transfer cause my Banking institute
had stopped issuing cheques!
On 2/09/2025 11:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 12:59, Daniel70 wrote:Nobody builds houses on slopes, do they?? ;-P
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of aDepends on the slope the house is built on
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:40:49 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 23:29, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 06:10:39 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Bud of mine put a 'gel' bed in his 2nd-floor apartment. HUGE fun
dealing with that when he had to move. Was convinced the floor
would cave in ... and what the hell do you do with "gel" ???
My mother-in-law gave us a king sized bed for a wedding gift. The plan
was to put it in the upstairs bedroom. The layout was three steps up to
a landing from the kitchen, three steps down to the living room, with a
fairly step staircase perpendicular to the landing for upstairs.
The Macy's truck arrived with the bed. I wasn't home but my wife
reported that after struggling for a while the crew said 'Lady, that
ain't going up there without a chainsaw.''
Was that bed fully assembled? Here beds are sold disassembled.
It was disassembled but box springs don't bend in the middle like a
mattress. We probably could have went with the mattress on the floor but
it was the whole deal or nothing.
On 2025-09-03 13:17, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/09/2025 11:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 12:59, Daniel70 wrote:Nobody builds houses on slopes, do they?? ;-P
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of aDepends on the slope the house is built on
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
Yes, they do. I have been on some.
On 9/2/25 22:10, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:47:30 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Gosh, this land is civilized, no fauna :-DD
The joys of civilization. I remember going to the Indiana state museum.
One exhibit claimed almost all non-domestic fauna had been killed off by
the early 20th century. They started reintroducing deer and other species
in the '40s and there was a deer season when I was there in the '80s.
Farmers absolutely hate any animal that they can't send to market.
Some eastern states have reintroduced elk. In this state wolves
reintroduced themselves and that's rather controversial. Grizzly bears
never were eliminated but they've started increasing their range, also
controversial. There are a number of bison ranches but the free roaming
bison at Yellowstone are also a problem due to the possibility of
brucellosis transmission.
It keeps life interesting.
Bison on the open plains help sequester carbon as was exposed on
a recent PBS show. It starts with the dung then the dung beetles who roll there little balls of dung into burrows to lay eggs and feed the hatchings. Now the soil is fertilized and the ground hogs dig miles of burrows to
be secure from their foxy enemies which helps aerate the soil and pretty
soon all the bugs die in the underground and store carbon faster than
the rain forests. This was illustrated with a trench about 2-2.5 feet
deep with about 18 inches of dead roots and more dead microbes
all storing carbon.
We had bison in Golden Gate Park some years back. They had to
be moved to a quarantine pasture in San Mateo County due to tuberculosis where they were all kept until expired. Too sad and our albino alligator
is 30 yoa recently.
Brucellosis, is there no vaccine? Looked it up and no vaccine so I guess those Dept. of Agricuture people just sit on their hands.
Even fish get it. It is a dire enemy of prosperity for the rancher.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 21:59:16 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/09/2025 8:15 pm, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have >>>> to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki
article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
I suppose it's to be expected from people who drive on the wrong side of
the road. If you're in an elevator where there is a parking garage or something below ground, is the ground floor 0?
On 02/09/2025 23:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Gosh, this land is civilized, no fauna :-DDNot really, Italians and Spanish shoot and eat anything larger than a sparrow...
I see sparrows and pigeons. Rats I don't see, they are too shy. I gave
it a present, taken from a box that said "rat poison". Will take a
week or two to work.
Wild boars somewhere.
Had best wild boar ever in Sardinia...
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 21:59:16 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
On 2/09/2025 8:15 pm, Nuno Silva wrote:
On 2025-09-01, Carlos E.R. wrote:When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
However, if I try to certify the electrical installation, I would have >>>> to redo them, meaning rewire the second floor (first floor in EU)
(I don't think floor numbering is uniform across the EU? At least .fi
has the street level as the first floor. Now I wonder if there's a wiki
article with some neat map of this...
Oh, it *is* called '"European" scheme'? Now that's perhaps a bit
confusing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Countries_numbering_floors.svg )
entirely. And unless I certify, the electricity company refuses to
increase the Amps, which is why my house is limited to 10A.
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
I suppose it's to be expected from people who drive on the wrong side of
the road. If you're in an elevator where there is a parking garage or something below ground, is the ground floor 0?
On 2025-09-02 21:24, rbowman wrote:
I suppose it's to be expected from people who drive on the wrong side of
the road. If you're in an elevator where there is a parking garage or
something below ground, is the ground floor 0?
Certainly.
Above ground zero, there are levels 1, 2, 3...
Below ground zero, there are levels -1, -2, -3...
I think that current mattresses are rolled and vacuum compressed for transport. But you mean the bed base, made with springs?
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is
240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the >>>>> Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied that
they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be about 90V RMS
(or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd
service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
--"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac
and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
In Germany, wall socket circuits are maximally fused with 16 A, so
there ain't more than 3600 W pulled from a single socket. Most
electric water kettles (and washing machines) limit themselves to 2 kW
to still be safe in bad installations and to not accidentally trip the breaker when something else on the same circuit is switched on.
On 2025-09-03 10:49, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Partridge are brilliant.
On 02/09/2025 23:47, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Gosh, this land is civilized, no fauna :-DDNot really, Italians and Spanish shoot and eat anything larger than a
sparrow...
Huh. Not me. Partridges are supposed to be a delicatessen. My parents
forced me to eat one (you must get used to eat everything!). I hated it.
Too many bones.
On 03/09/2025 06:45, c186282 wrote:(into a resistive load)>
Re-check your calculations. SO many ways toTotal bollox
define "power".
120vac, in practice, delivers almost the same
power as 90vdc. Voltages are close enough so
there are no insulation/heat concerns.
120VAC is DEFINED to deliver the same power as 120v DC.
That's what RMS is all about
On 9/3/25 7:34 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/09/2025 7:22 am, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-09-02, Don_from_AZ <djatechNOSPAM@comcast.net.invalid> wrote:
Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> writes:
Daniel70 wrote:
Fire departments are pushing back against
this trend, since it makes it hard for them to count their way
up to a floor where a fire is burning.
Why do they need to count?? Surely they start at the Ground-level
floor and just keep climbing until it gets really, really, hot??
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia
Ground level is floor ONE.
USA anyhow.
Everyone knows that.
On 3/09/2025 9:46 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-03 13:17, Daniel70 wrote:WOW!! How do you set up furniture on slopping floors without it slipping
On 2/09/2025 11:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 12:59, Daniel70 wrote:Nobody builds houses on slopes, do they?? ;-P
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a >>>>> House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THEDepends on the slope the house is built on
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
Yes, they do. I have been on some.
and sliding all over the place .... well slipping and sliding DOWN the slopes.
On 2025-09-02 20:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 19:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac ptp has the
same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Also Oz ... where did you think the band "AC/DC" got
it's name ? A sister of one of the members saw it on--
a household appliance - ELECTRIC !
USA ... "AC/DC" has a slightly different meaning.
Find the old Joan Jett song :-)
On 2025-09-02, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
[Warning: thread drift]
On 2025-09-02, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTub
Ah, someone else who feels the way I do. When I'm trying to
search the web for instructions on how to do something, I skip
over videos in favour of text descriptions (which means that
I skip most hits). I hate the idea of having to sit through
20 minutes of video which proceeds at a glacial pace with no
easy, accurate way to skip ahead. Text descriptions, on the
other hand, allow you to skip ahead or jump around at your
discretion, and let you find something in 30 seconds.
And many videos are very poorly done - not even a rehearsal
or gathering of relevant material before hitting the record
button. Ready, fire, aim. (In some cases it would be more
accurate to say "fire, aim, ready".)
Are there good search engines with options of "show just text results"?
Or some hack to exclude videos in Google or other search engines that
insist that you must want videos too?
On 03/09/2025 06:45, c186282 wrote:
Re-check your calculations. SO many ways to define "power".Total bollox
120vac, in practice, delivers almost the same power as 90vdc.
Voltages are close enough so there are no insulation/heat
concerns.
120VAC is DEFINED to deliver the same power as 120v DC.
That's what RMS is all about
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is
240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and
the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS >>>>> are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied that
they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be about 90V
RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd
service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has the
same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak" i.e.
from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double the Peak
Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac
and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Low-voltage DC works just fine. Good stuff. Alas you can't transmit
it far. Need a little power plant every few blocks.
On 03/09/2025 10:02, c186282 wrote:
There is NO easy fix for a nukewar. 99+ percent
will DIE, probably in a horrible manner.
Experiences at Hiroshima and elsewhere produce the following
- you really want to be blocked from the direct radiation by large
amounts of earth or concrete. A desk wont be much good but a cellar would,
- your next problem is blast. Again you need large quantities of earth
or concrete to hide behind, or distance.
- for a rather smaller number of people, radiation sickness will get
them in a few days. Again large quantities of earth or concrete are
helpful.
If the above don't get you, you will very likely survive. The myth of fallout is - unless its deliberately induced in e,g. a cobalt bomb -
simply a non problem. Likewise nuclear winter etc etc.
The actual data shows that the bast majority of deaths are from being vaporised or blown to bits . In either case you might as well not worry.
You wont feel a thing.
For a small minority, a nasty death from radiation exposure calls.
For most of the rest of the population, the danger is total disruption
of a modern infrastructure. Food water power sanitation etc.
They wont normally all die. You are using nukes to mainly threaten.,
They are not a great deal of use beyond that unless you are going for
e.g. complete sterilisation and using a neutron bomb.
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and transport infrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is not with ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant oligarchy and a
war machine they control.
So take out the oligarchs and the war machine.
Only the 3rd world islamists would like to commit genocide on an entire population.
On 3/09/2025 3:45 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Also Oz ... where did you think the band "AC/DC" got
Why "Also Oz"?? I mean "AC/DC" were a World Wide Hit, weren't they?? ;-P
it's name ? A sister of one of the members saw it on
a household appliance - ELECTRIC !
USA ... "AC/DC" has a slightly different meaning.
Find the old Joan Jett song :-)
On 02/09/2025 20:58, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 21:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Why? Its just a light pipe...biggest problem is fragility, but laying a steel wire in as well fixes that
On 02/09/2025 20:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:32:44 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
Ten/Fifteen years or so ago, our Phone system had been upgraded to
Fibre-to-the Building for Business and those Home-owners who wanted to >>>>> pat the premium for Fibre-to-the-Home. Everyone else just got
Fibre-to-the-Node, i.e. the box on the nature-strip somewhere in the >>>>> street, then twisted-pair wire to the Home.
Fibre-to-the-Home would be expensive in this area. Most homes are
set back
well away from the highway. That's probably why cable never was run out >>>> here.
The thing is that a crude 'fibre on a wooden pole' setup is actually
very very cheap. Especially if you supply the poles.
That is done here.
I thought that fibre on poles was impossible, that the fibre had to be
unmovable.
Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is
240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the
Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Normally the diodes are specified to tolerate the Peak Inverse Voltage, which could be nearer 700v for the nominal 240v rms supply. Hence many diodes have a PIV of about 1kV - e.g. 1N4007.
On 3/09/2025 6:06 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 20:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 19:11, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac ptp has the
same thermal effect as 120 dc.
120V RMS *DOES* have the same thermal effect as 120V DC, but 120V RMS--
has a PEAK Voltage of approx 170V and a Peak to Peak value of approx 340V.
R.M.S. Voltage = D.C. equivalent Voltage (approx)
Peak Voltage = 1.414 RMS Voltage (approx)
Peak to Peak Voltage = 2.828 RMS Voltage, (approx)
On 3/09/2025 7:02 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 06:45, c186282 wrote:IF and only *IF* the 120VAC is defined as RMS.
Re-check your calculations. SO many ways to define "power".Total bollox
120vac, in practice, delivers almost the same power as 90vdc.
Voltages are close enough so there are no insulation/heat
concerns.
120VAC is DEFINED to deliver the same power as 120v DC.
That's what RMS is all about
A 120VAC PEAK Waveform only delivers the same power as 90VDC (approx).
On 03/09/2025 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I think that current mattresses are rolled and vacuum compressed for
transport. But you mean the bed base, made with springs?
No. Proper mattresses have springs, too..
On 9/2/25 10:30 AM, Graham J wrote:
Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is
240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and the >>>>> Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an SMPS
are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Normally the diodes are specified to tolerate the Peak Inverse
Voltage, which could be nearer 700v for the nominal 240v rms supply.
Hence many diodes have a PIV of about 1kV - e.g. 1N4007.
I took to using 1000v diodes for almost everything.
Same price.
I'm also scratching my head over what "quantum AI" is supposed to
mean -- sounds like a buzzword.
On 2025-09-03 11:11, Marc Haber wrote:
In Germany, wall socket circuits are maximally fused with 16 A, so
there ain't more than 3600 W pulled from a single socket. Most
electric water kettles (and washing machines) limit themselves to 2 kW
to still be safe in bad installations and to not accidentally trip the
breaker when something else on the same circuit is switched on.
It is a problem for me, as I want room heaters of 500/1000 watts. A
1|2KW heater can blow the house limiter, as my entire house is limited
to 10A.
On 9/3/25 4:28 AM, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:02:59 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Hide under your school desk ! That's what they taught us. There
were drills.
We went out into the hallway, crouched down, and kissed our asses
goodbye. Having the Watervliet Arsenal, home of the atomic cannon,
in the neighborhood didn't inspire confidence if the shooting
started.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M65_atomic_cannon
I'm not sure chucking a 20 kiloton atomic bomb 7 miles down the
road was a well thought out idea. When the Arsenal had an open
house the barrel was up on saw horses so you could look down the
bore. Impressive.
USA really seemed to believe in the "under desk" solution. So, the
rest of the classroom is suddenly 9000 degrees ..........
Did NOTHING of course, but seemed easy, like "doing something".
There is NO easy fix for a nukewar. 99+ percent will DIE, probably in
a horrible manner.
The "leaders", of course, have big deep bunkers stocked with
everything .....
May have surface vents, consider gasoline ....
NukeWar means your 'leaders' have TOTALLY FAILED.
Any humans AFTER a nuke war ? Ummm ... won't be MANY for sure. A few
very remote islands maybe. Won't be fun. Back to banging the rocks
together .......
On 2025-09-02 23:22, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-09-01, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/09/2025 12:34, Carlos E.R. wrote:
I believe well done soldered joints reduce the resistance.
It depends. Solder is more resistive than copper, but if you use plenty
of it.
Apropos of nothing I once connected a Shottky diode across a brushed DC
motor to clamp RF spikes, and accidentally soldered it the wrong way
round...it got very hot, smoked and *melted all the solder*.
To my surprise, it survived...
I've been phasing out the 50-watt PAR20 halogen lamps that are all
over our house, replacing burned-out units with 7-watt LED equivalents.
The halogens produce beautiful light, but they run hot as hell.
A common failure mode is that they unsolder their own bases.
I keep one true halogen Ikea lamp at this computer desk, normally off. I >power it up when I want to read something small or see the true colours. >When it fuses, I probably will not be able to find a replacement.
On 2025-09-03 07:49, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:40:49 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 23:29, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 06:10:39 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Bud of mine put a 'gel' bed in his 2nd-floor apartment. HUGE fun >>>>> dealing with that when he had to move. Was convinced the floor >>>>> would cave in ... and what the hell do you do with "gel" ??? >>>>My mother-in-law gave us a king sized bed for a wedding gift. The plan >>>> was to put it in the upstairs bedroom. The layout was three steps up to >>>> a landing from the kitchen, three steps down to the living room, with a >>>> fairly step staircase perpendicular to the landing for upstairs.
The Macy's truck arrived with the bed. I wasn't home but my wife
reported that after struggling for a while the crew said 'Lady, that
ain't going up there without a chainsaw.''
Was that bed fully assembled? Here beds are sold disassembled.
It was disassembled but box springs don't bend in the middle like a
mattress. We probably could have went with the mattress on the floor but
it was the whole deal or nothing.
I think that current mattresses are rolled and vacuum compressed for transport. But you mean the bed base, made with springs?
On 2/09/2025 11:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 12:59, Daniel70 wrote:Nobody builds houses on slopes, do they?? ;-P
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of aDepends on the slope the house is built on
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
On 3/09/2025 9:46 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-03 13:17, Daniel70 wrote:WOW!! How do you set up furniture on slopping floors without it slipping
On 2/09/2025 11:52 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 12:59, Daniel70 wrote:Nobody builds houses on slopes, do they?? ;-P
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a >>>>> House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THEDepends on the slope the house is built on
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
Yes, they do. I have been on some.
and sliding all over the place .... well slipping and sliding DOWN the slopes.
On 3/09/2025 3:45 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Also Oz ... where did you think the band "AC/DC" got
Why "Also Oz"?? I mean "AC/DC" were a World Wide Hit, weren't they?? ;-P
it's name ? A sister of one of the members saw it on
a household appliance - ELECTRIC !
USA ... "AC/DC" has a slightly different meaning.
Find the old Joan Jett song :-)
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is >>>>>>> 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and >>>>>>> the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an
SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied that >>>>> they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be about 90V
RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd
service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has the
same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak" i.e.
from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double the Peak
Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac
and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Edison had a LONG shadow.--
<Snip>
I'm also scratching my head over what "quantum AI" is supposed to"quantum AI" -- sounds almost "Fourth Generation" to me.
mean -- sounds like a buzzword.
On 2025-09-03 11:34, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 10:02, c186282 wrote:
Only the 3rd world islamists would like to commit genocide on an
entire population.
Israel is doing it, with the help of the USA.
Some say Israelis are equally nuts as the radical islamist.
On 2025-09-03 10:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 02/09/2025 20:58, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 21:37, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Why? Its just a light pipe...biggest problem is fragility, but laying
On 02/09/2025 20:34, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:32:44 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
Ten/Fifteen years or so ago, our Phone system had been upgraded to >>>>>> Fibre-to-the Building for Business and those Home-owners who
wanted to
pat the premium for Fibre-to-the-Home. Everyone else just got
Fibre-to-the-Node, i.e. the box on the nature-strip somewhere in the >>>>>> street, then twisted-pair wire to the Home.
Fibre-to-the-Home would be expensive in this area. Most homes are
set back
well away from the highway. That's probably why cable never was run >>>>> out
here.
The thing is that a crude 'fibre on a wooden pole' setup is actually
very very cheap. Especially if you supply the poles.
That is done here.
I thought that fibre on poles was impossible, that the fibre had to
be unmovable.
a steel wire in as well fixes that
How well does it stand waving in the wind?
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 23:15:41 +1000
Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
<Snip>
I'm also scratching my head over what "quantum AI" is supposed to"quantum AI" -- sounds almost "Fourth Generation" to me.
mean -- sounds like a buzzword.
It's marketing woo-woo - guaranteed it doesn't mean a damn thing in any practical sense. As far as "decoding" anything, even a Paleolithic
shaman out of his/her gourd on Sacred Mushrooms is more capable of
reasoning and deduction than Prof. ELIZA...
[Warning: thread drift]
On 2025-09-02, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTub
Ah, someone else who feels the way I do. When I'm trying to
search the web for instructions on how to do something, I skip
over videos in favour of text descriptions (which means that
I skip most hits). I hate the idea of having to sit through
20 minutes of video which proceeds at a glacial pace with no
easy, accurate way to skip ahead. Text descriptions, on the
other hand, allow you to skip ahead or jump around at your
discretion, and let you find something in 30 seconds.
And many videos are very poorly done - not even a rehearsal
or gathering of relevant material before hitting the record
button. Ready, fire, aim. (In some cases it would be more
accurate to say "fire, aim, ready".)
On 9/3/25 04:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-03 07:49, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 00:40:49 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 23:29, rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 06:10:39 -0400, c186282 wrote:
Bud of mine put a 'gel' bed in his 2nd-floor apartment. HUGE funMy mother-in-law gave us a king sized bed for a wedding gift. The plan >>>>> was to put it in the upstairs bedroom. The layout was three steps
dealing with that when he had to move. Was convinced the floor >>>>>> would cave in ... and what the hell do you do with "gel" ??? >>>>>
up to
a landing from the kitchen, three steps down to the living room,
with a
fairly step staircase perpendicular to the landing for upstairs.
The Macy's truck arrived with the bed. I wasn't home but my wife
reported that after struggling for a while the crew said 'Lady, that >>>>> ain't going up there without a chainsaw.''
Was that bed fully assembled? Here beds are sold disassembled.
It was disassembled but box springs don't bend in the middle like a
mattress. We probably could have went with the mattress on the floor but >>> it was the whole deal or nothing.
I think that current mattresses are rolled and vacuum compressed for
transport. But you mean the bed base, made with springs?
That is the box spring, it sits on the frame and the Mattress sits on top
of the box spring.
I bought a current mattress, rolled up and compressed. but it did not live
up to its "Firm" specification. I had to turn it over to get a surface
on which to
sleep. Still not comfortable but it will be a while before I can afford
to replace
it. Good mattresses are not rolled up and compressed.
Also they cost a lot more than the rolled and compressed type.
They wont normally all die. You are using nukes to mainly threaten.,
They are not a great deal of use beyond that unless you are going for
e.g. complete sterilisation and using a neutron bomb.
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave
people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful
fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and transport infrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is not with ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant oligarchy and a
war machine they control.
So take out the oligarchs and the war machine.
Only the 3rd world islamists would like to commit genocide on an entire population.
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave
people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful
fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and transport infrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is not with
ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant oligarchy and a
war machine they control.
On 2025-09-03, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
They wont normally all die. You are using nukes to mainly threaten.,
They are not a great deal of use beyond that unless you are going for
e.g. complete sterilisation and using a neutron bomb.
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave
people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful
fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and transport
infrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is not with
ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant oligarchy and a
war machine they control.
So take out the oligarchs and the war machine.
Only the 3rd world islamists would like to commit genocide on an entire
population.
I mostly agree with what you say above, but I take exception to the last "only" in the line above.
And Australia could well be counted as one of those 'very remote
islands' .... but, back in the 80's, when I was in the Australian Army,
we had it drummed into us that we were Number Three on the Atomic
Hitlist .... for BOTH sides ..... because of our Natural Resources
including Uranium, etc.
Just last night, I was watching a clip (on T.V.??) that showed a
Humanoid Robot jumping around on stage doing "Break-dancing" type
manoveours, hand stands, etc, Impressed the hell out of me!!
No wires attached .... Radio-controlled, though .....!
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 23:48:49 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
And Australia could well be counted as one of those 'very remote
islands' .... but, back in the 80's, when I was in the Australian Army,
we had it drummed into us that we were Number Three on the Atomic
Hitlist .... for BOTH sides ..... because of our Natural Resources
including Uranium, etc.
I've read my share of post-apocalyptic but one of the most chilling ever
was Neville Shute's 'On The Beach' and the film made from it. It may not
be a plausible scenario but in '57 nobody really had a clue. One of the threads that stuck in my mind was the guy restoring his Ferrari knowing
that he was going to die.
One of the magazines I read religiously, Mechanix Illustrated I think
rather than Popular Mechanics, had an issue with a lurid cover featuring a zombie-like face eaten away by radiation poisoning and an even more descriptive article on slow death by radiation. That did wonders for a 10 year old's imagination.
Huh. Not me. Partridges are supposed to be a delicatessen. My parents
forced me to eat one (you must get used to eat everything!). I hated it.
Too many bones.
'renewable' 'sustainable' 'eco-friendly' 'clean' ...all bullshit terms
that have about as much actual reality as the archangel Gabriel.
Possibly even less...
On 9/3/25 8:34 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/09/2025 3:45 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Also Oz ... where did you think the band "AC/DC" got
Why "Also Oz"?? I mean "AC/DC" were a World Wide Hit, weren't they??
;-P
Yea, but they're of Oz. Give Oz due credit.
I think that current mattresses are rolled and vacuum compressed for transport. But you mean the bed base, made with springs?
On 2025-09-03 14:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:Yes, springs and all, rolled and vacuumed.
I think that current mattresses are rolled and vacuum compressed for
transport. But you mean the bed base, made with springs?
No. Proper mattresses have springs, too..
I bought a current mattress, rolled up and compressed. but it didnot
live
up to its "Firm" specification.
DEPRESSING that there are no world standards THIS far on ! Hell, even
just 'western' standards !
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 07:46:35 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I bought a current mattress, rolled up and compressed. but it didnot
live
up to its "Firm" specification.
You might like my arrangement, 3" memory foam on a sheet of plywood. It is firm.
On Tue, 2 Sep 2025 23:53:38 -0400, c186282 wrote:
USA - black and white ... and green for ground.
Don't put your finger on the black wire(s) !
My father worked in a shipyard at one time where black was negative.
I learned to approach his wiring with caution.
My previous mattress had a layer of memory foam and another of latex,
then something else inside. Well, at about 12 or 13 years the latex decomposed, without me noticing, producing a fine dust that produced in
me a pharyngolaryngitis that did not respond to treatment, till I went
to sleep at another bed. Then I saw the dust on the wood frame.
On 9/2/25 10:24 AM, Graham J wrote:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
Nope, almost ALWAYS level ONE.
Far too late to change.
There is no zero. Basement levels start
at "B1".
Have yet to see a good study about the
human perceptual diff between old 'analog'/
'filament', light sources and LEDS. The LEDs
FAKE it, but the spectrum is NOT very linear,
lots of peaks and valleys.
Can human perceptions SEE that ???
Not OUTRIGHT, but maybe on more subtle levels.
How can that affect us ?
I've read my share of post-apocalyptic but one of the most chilling ever
was Neville Shute's 'On The Beach' and the film made from it. It may not
be a plausible scenario but in '57 nobody really had a clue. One of the threads that stuck in my mind was the guy restoring his Ferrari knowing
that he was going to die.
On 2025-09-03, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
They wont normally all die. You are using nukes to mainly threaten.,
They are not a great deal of use beyond that unless you are going for
e.g. complete sterilisation and using a neutron bomb.
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave
people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful
fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and transport
infrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is not with
ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant oligarchy and a
war machine they control.
So take out the oligarchs and the war machine.
Only the 3rd world islamists would like to commit genocide on an entire
population.
I mostly agree with what you say above, but I take exception to the last >"only" in the line above.
On 2025-09-03, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
They wont normally all die. You are using nukes to mainly threaten.,
They are not a great deal of use beyond that unless you are going for
e.g. complete sterilisation and using a neutron bomb.
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave
people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful
fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and transport
infrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is not with
ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant oligarchy and a
war machine they control.
So take out the oligarchs and the war machine.
Only the 3rd world islamists would like to commit genocide on an entire
population.
I mostly agree with what you say above, but I take exception to the last "only" in the line above.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 10:34:18 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave
people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful
fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and transport
infrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is not with
ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant oligarchy and a
war machine they control.
The masterful fashion includes trying to destroy the Druzhba pipeline to punish Hungary and Slovakia for not joining Zelensky's hopeless war.
Everyone wants to exterminate everyone that they feel
threatened or frustrated by or so it seems.
Not much different than what the JIA has been doing in
the nations it invaded.
On 2025-09-03, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
I've read my share of post-apocalyptic but one of the most chilling ever
was Neville Shute's 'On The Beach' and the film made from it. It may not
be a plausible scenario but in '57 nobody really had a clue. One of the
threads that stuck in my mind was the guy restoring his Ferrari knowing
that he was going to die.
So after one final drive he pulled into his garage, closed the doors,
and sat in the car with the motor running. That's what stuck with me.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 14:07:18 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
Huh. Not me. Partridges are supposed to be a delicatessen. My parents
forced me to eat one (you must get used to eat everything!). I hated it.
Too many bones.
I haven't seen them in a long time but 'Cornish Game Hen' was popular as a single serving roast chicken. It wasn't a game bird and the breed was a
full sized chicken if they managed to live that long but they were slaughtered very young except for the breeders.
I shot a pigeon, dressed it, and tried to pass it off to a friend as a Cornish game hen. Alas, he knew me all too well.
Recently I've seen quail eggs at CostCo. Cracking two eggs for breakfast
is all I can handle; you'd need about a dozen of those for a meal.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 17:27:27 +0100, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
'renewable' 'sustainable' 'eco-friendly' 'clean' ...all bullshit terms
that have about as much actual reality as the archangel Gabriel.
Possibly even less...
I prefer Michael, the warrior archangel. He also brings souls to Valhalla, er, Heaven. Codrenanu got a lot of miles out of the Legion of the
Archangel Michael. iirc he was also front and center in the 'Gangs of New York' film.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 07:46:35 -0700, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
I bought a current mattress, rolled up and compressed. but it didnot
live
up to its "Firm" specification.
You might like my arrangement, 3" memory foam on a sheet of plywood. It is firm.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 06:30:36 -0400, c186282 wrote:
DEPRESSING that there are no world standards THIS far on ! Hell, even
just 'western' standards !
Damn globalists want to control everything.
Islam has a long history of wiping out local cultures. Submit, or
die.
ObComSci: Windows has also done much to retard computer advances.
On 2025-09-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 9/2/25 10:24 AM, Graham J wrote:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR*
*ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in
France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
Nope, almost ALWAYS level ONE.
Far too late to change.
Too bad. To this day, many people can't handle the concept of zero.
There is no zero. Basement levels start
at "B1".
Or "P1" in buildings with underground parking.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 14:55:47 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-03 14:18, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 12:55, Carlos E.R. wrote:Yes, springs and all, rolled and vacuumed.
I think that current mattresses are rolled and vacuum compressed for
transport. But you mean the bed base, made with springs?
No. Proper mattresses have springs, too..
You're not going to roll up a box spring. The pertinent word is 'box'.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Box-spring
On 2025-09-04 05:28, Charlie Gibbs wrote:
On 2025-09-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 9/2/25 10:24 AM, Graham J wrote:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a
House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR* >>>>> *ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in >>>> France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
Nope, almost ALWAYS level ONE.
Far too late to change.
Too bad. To this day, many people can't handle the concept of zero.
There is no zero. Basement levels start
at "B1".
Or "P1" in buildings with underground parking.
Some buildings use this in the elevator (translating from Spanish):
4
3
2
1
G (or 0) (ground)
U (underground)
P1
P2 (Parking)
P3
On 04/09/2025 11:00, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-04 05:28, Charlie Gibbs wrote:In the UK B rather than U for Basement
On 2025-09-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 9/2/25 10:24 AM, Graham J wrote:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a >>>>>> House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE
*GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR* >>>>>> *ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in >>>>> France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground
floor as zero.
Nope, almost ALWAYS level ONE.
Far too late to change.
Too bad. To this day, many people can't handle the concept of zero.
There is no zero. Basement levels start
at "B1".
Or "P1" in buildings with underground parking.
Some buildings use this in the elevator (translating from Spanish):
4
3
2
1
G (or 0) (ground)
U (underground)
P1
P2 (Parking)
P3
On 2025-09-03 14:41, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/09/2025 7:02 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 06:45, c186282 wrote:IF and only *IF* the 120VAC is defined as RMS.
Re-check your calculations. SO many ways to define "power".Total bollox
120vac, in practice, delivers almost the same power as 90vdc.
Voltages are close enough so there are no insulation/heat
concerns.
120VAC is DEFINED to deliver the same power as 120v DC.
That's what RMS is all about
It is.
A 120VAC PEAK Waveform only delivers the same power as 90VDC (approx).
But it is 170 peak.
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 08:53:51 -0400, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:34 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 3/09/2025 3:45 pm, c186282 wrote:
<Snip>
Also Oz ... where did you think the band "AC/DC" got
Why "Also Oz"?? I mean "AC/DC" were a World Wide Hit, weren't they??
;-P
Yea, but they're of Oz. Give Oz due credit.
They balance out Olivia Newton-John although I don't think she was a
native.
On 03/09/2025 19:01, Lars Poulsen wrote:for
On 2025-09-03, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
They wont normally all die. You are using nukes to mainly threaten.,
They are not a great deal of use beyond that unless you are going
transporte.g. complete sterilisation and using a neutron bomb.
Modern precison weapons can damage what you want to damage and leave
people more or less intact. Ukraine is showing that in a masterful
fashion. Ordinary Russians look on as their oil electrical and
ainfrastructure is dismantled before their eyes. The war is not with
ordinary Russians, it is with a politically dominant oligarchy and
entirewar machine they control.
So take out the oligarchs and the war machine.
Only the 3rd world islamists would like to commit genocide on an
lastpopulation.
I mostly agree with what you say above, but I take exception to the
"only" in the line above.Well I thought about that and decided that even the EU wouldn't
sterilise a whole country just for leaving...
On 4/09/2025 8:28 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/09/2025 11:00, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-04 05:28, Charlie Gibbs wrote:In the UK B rather than U for Basement
On 2025-09-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 9/2/25 10:24 AM, Graham J wrote:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a >>>>>>> House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE >>>>>>> *GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR* >>>>>>> *ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in >>>>>> France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground >>>>>> floor as zero.
Nope, almost ALWAYS level ONE.
Far too late to change.
Too bad. To this day, many people can't handle the concept of zero.
There is no zero. Basement levels start
at "B1".
Or "P1" in buildings with underground parking.
Some buildings use this in the elevator (translating from Spanish):
4
3
2
1
G (or 0) (ground)
U (underground)
P1
P2 (Parking)
P3
So does that mean you have a level of Office/Shop/Housing space BELOW
ground level on top of several Parking levels??
Weird!!
On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 09:31:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Well I thought about that and decided that even the EU wouldn't
sterilise a whole country just for leaving...
To really solve the entire planets problems is pretty easy. DNA
weapons to clean aka take out all eastern Europeans.
This would affect all these filth no matter how far related. Then go
after all their supporters....not difficult but so clear.
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" is >>>>>>>> 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire and >>>>>>>> the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an
SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied
that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be about >>>>>> 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd
service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has
the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak" i.e.
from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double the
Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac
and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
OTOH 90V AC will rectify out to 120V DC peak with a smoothing capacitor
on it
Daniel70Edison had a LONG shadow.--
On Tue, 02 Sep 2025 21:22:34 GMT
Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> wrote:
[Warning: thread drift]
On 2025-09-02, Bobbie Sellers <bliss-sf4ever@dslextreme.com> wrote:
Hate to waste my time on video so ignore YouTub
Ah, someone else who feels the way I do. When I'm trying to
search the web for instructions on how to do something, I skip
over videos in favour of text descriptions (which means that
I skip most hits). I hate the idea of having to sit through
20 minutes of video which proceeds at a glacial pace with no
easy, accurate way to skip ahead. Text descriptions, on the
other hand, allow you to skip ahead or jump around at your
discretion, and let you find something in 30 seconds.
And many videos are very poorly done - not even a rehearsal
or gathering of relevant material before hitting the record
button. Ready, fire, aim. (In some cases it would be more
accurate to say "fire, aim, ready".)
<AOL>
I hate^w get a bit miffed if someone posts to Usenet a raw URL to a vid.
It may, or may not be, everso informative, but a Clue would be useful.
I avoid on principle. Maybe I'm less informed because of it, but
sest lavy, as we say in Fra^w Britain.
On 04/09/2025 04:38, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Islam has a long history of wiping out local cultures. Submit, or
die.
ObComSci: Windows has also done much to retard computer advances.
Windows: The Islam of the computer world...
On 4/09/2025 6:46 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/09/2025 04:38, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Islam has a long history of wiping out local cultures. Submit, or die.
ObComSci: Windows has also done much to retard computer advances.
Windows: The Islam of the computer world...
Are you trying to insult Islam?? That could get you in trouble!! ;-P
On 4/09/2025 2:52 am, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:[]
I avoid on principle. Maybe I'm less informed because of it, but
sest lavy, as we say in Fra^w Britain.
Oh! Is that how you spell it?? I would have thought it was "Say Lavie"!! ;-P
On 4/09/2025 8:28 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/09/2025 11:00, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-04 05:28, Charlie Gibbs wrote:In the UK B rather than U for Basement
On 2025-09-03, c186282 <c186282@nnada.net> wrote:
On 9/2/25 10:24 AM, Graham J wrote:
Daniel70 wrote:
[snip]
When I walk in from the Street Footpath through the Front Door of a >>>>>>> House, I'm still (possibly) AT GROUND LEVEL, so I MUST be on THE >>>>>>> *GROUND* *FLOOR* level, surely!!
If I then go up a set of stairs, that puts me at the *FIRST* *FLOOR* >>>>>>> *ABOVE* Ground level, surely!!
This is indeed the English convention. I suspect the same is true in >>>>>> France: "premier etage". So probably Europe-wide.
The Americans can achieve the same result by numbering their ground >>>>>> floor as zero.
Nope, almost ALWAYS level ONE.
Far too late to change.
Too bad. To this day, many people can't handle the concept of zero.
There is no zero. Basement levels start
at "B1".
Or "P1" in buildings with underground parking.
Some buildings use this in the elevator (translating from Spanish):
4
3
2
1
G (or 0) (ground)
U (underground)
P1
P2 (Parking)
P3
So does that mean you have a level of Office/Shop/Housing space BELOW
ground level on top of several Parking levels??
On 3/09/2025 10:59 pm, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-03 14:41, Daniel70 wrote:How??
On 3/09/2025 7:02 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 06:45, c186282 wrote:IF and only *IF* the 120VAC is defined as RMS.
Re-check your calculations. SO many ways to define "power".Total bollox
120vac, in practice, delivers almost the same power as 90vdc.
Voltages are close enough so there are no insulation/heat
concerns.
120VAC is DEFINED to deliver the same power as 120v DC.
That's what RMS is all about
It is.
A 120VAC PEAK Waveform only delivers the same power as 90VDC (approx).
But it is 170 peak.
I specifically stated *A 120VAC PEAK Waveform* so how could it possibly
have a 170V peak value??
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" >>>>>>>>> is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire >>>>>>>>> and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an >>>>>>>> SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied
that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be
about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd
service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has
the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak"
i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double
the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac
and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do you
get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
How could you possibly expect to get an AVERAGE (smoothed) value of 168V DC??
If you Full wave rectified the Sine Wave (so you had two Positive bumps
per Cycle) and you then Filtered that (to produce DC), sure, you might
get an UNLOADED 170V DC'ish ..... but not very useful!!
So does that mean you have a level of Office/Shop/Housing space BELOW
ground level on top of several Parking levels??
Weird!!
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" >>>>>>>>> is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire >>>>>>>>> and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an >>>>>>>> SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied
that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be
about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd
service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has
the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak"
i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double
the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac
and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do you
get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
How could you possibly expect to get an AVERAGE (smoothed) value of 168V DC??
If you Full wave rectified the Sine Wave (so you had two Positive bumps
per Cycle) and you then Filtered that (to produce DC), sure, you might
get an UNLOADED 170V DC'ish ..... but not very useful!!
On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 23:10:04 +1000
Daniel70 <daniel47@somewhere.someplaceelse> wrote:
On 4/09/2025 2:52 am, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:[]
I avoid on principle. Maybe I'm less informed because of it, butOh! Is that how you spell it?? I would have thought it was "Say Lavie"!! ;-P
sest lavy, as we say in Fra^w Britain.
That's the French way; I says it like it's rittun. :-)
On 4/09/2025 6:46 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:When you see a whole streetful of people farting in your general
On 04/09/2025 04:38, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Islam has a long history of wiping out local cultures. Submit, or die.
ObComSci: Windows has also done much to retard computer advances.
Windows: The Islam of the computer world...
Are you trying to insult Islam?? That could get you in trouble!! ;-P
Scrubbing older cultures it is what people do...
On 2025-09-04 15:03, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" >>>>>>>>>> is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire >>>>>>>>>> and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an >>>>>>>>> SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied >>>>>>>> that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be
about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd >>>>>>> service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has >>>>>> the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak"
i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double
the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac >>>>>>> and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do you
get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
How could you possibly expect to get an AVERAGE (smoothed) value of
168V DC??
If you Full wave rectified the Sine Wave (so you had two Positive
bumps per Cycle) and you then Filtered that (to produce DC), sure, you
might get an UNLOADED 170V DC'ish ..... but not very useful!!
Actually, you also get nearly 170V dc under some load, with a good LC filter. If the load is higher, you need a transistor to smooth it out at
a lower voltage.
On 4/09/2025 6:46 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/09/2025 04:38, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Islam has a long history of wiping out local cultures. Submit, or
die.
ObComSci: Windows has also done much to retard computer advances.
Windows: The Islam of the computer world...
Are you trying to insult Islam?? That could get you in trouble!! ;-P
On 04/09/2025 13:49, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 09:31:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Well I thought about that and decided that even the EU wouldn't
sterilise a whole country just for leaving...
To really solve the entire planets problems is pretty easy. DNA
weapons to clean aka take out all eastern Europeans.
Are Germans Eastern Europeans? Are Russians Eastern Europeans?
Are Turks Eastern Europeans. What about Georgia.? Poland?
Lithuania? Estonia? Sweden, and Finland?
This would affect all these filth no matter how far related. Then go
after all their supporters....not difficult but so clear.
It would take out 50% of the East Coast USA as well. I guess there is
merit in the idea...
On 04/09/2025 13:49, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 09:31:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Well I thought about that and decided that even the EU wouldn't
sterilise a whole country just for leaving...
To really solve the entire planets problems is pretty easy. DNA
weapons to clean aka take out all eastern Europeans.
Are Germans Eastern Europeans? Are Russians Eastern Europeans?
Are Turks Eastern Europeans. What about Georgia.? Poland?
Lithuania? Estonia? Sweden, and Finland?
This would affect all these filth no matter how far related. Then go
after all their supporters....not difficult but so clear.
It would take out 50% of the East Coast USA as well. I guess there is
merit in the idea...
On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 13:56:16 +0100, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 04/09/2025 13:49, Fritz Wuehler wrote:
On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 09:31:41 +0100, The Natural Philosopher
Well I thought about that and decided that even the EU wouldn't
sterilise a whole country just for leaving...
To really solve the entire planets problems is pretty easy. DNA
weapons to clean aka take out all eastern Europeans.
Are Germans Eastern Europeans? Are Russians Eastern Europeans?
Are Turks Eastern Europeans. What about Georgia.? Poland?
Lithuania? Estonia? Sweden, and Finland?
This would affect all these filth no matter how far related. Then go
after all their supporters....not difficult but so clear.
It would take out 50% of the East Coast USA as well. I guess there is
merit in the idea...
Your really stuck up the ass of the self styled "chosen"..
ALL means eastern Europe... including what has been forced upon the
planet. Tens of millions of Africans were and
still are being murdered. Eastern Europeans are not Turkish or even
Russian. These countries and peoples have an origin.
Those western (including Nordic) countries can easily eliminate the
internal problem of those filth that invaded over the past few centuries
from east Europe.
On 04/09/2025 14:28, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/09/2025 6:46 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:When you see a whole streetful of people farting in your general
On 04/09/2025 04:38, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Islam has a long history of wiping out local cultures. Submit, or
die.
ObComSci: Windows has also done much to retard computer advances.
Windows: The Islam of the computer world...
Are you trying to insult Islam?? That could get you in trouble!! ;-P
direction, I reckon they deserve everything that's coming to them
https://stevespeakers.medium.com/praying-in-the-streets-22b0391e8c09
On Thu, 4 Sep 2025 22:36:50 +1000, Daniel70 wrote:
So does that mean you have a level of Office/Shop/Housing space BELOW
ground level on top of several Parking levels??
Weird!!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cellar_(Macy's)
Probably the most famous, although I don't think any had underground
parking. Several stores in town had merchandise in the basement. Often it
was odds and ends that had been demoted to the cellar. There are not underground parking garages afaik. An aquifer down 25 to 30' discourages digging too deeply.
On 04/09/2025 14:03, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Are you serious?
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" >>>>>>>>>> is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire >>>>>>>>>> and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an >>>>>>>>> SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied >>>>>>>> that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be
about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd >>>>>>> service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has >>>>>> the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak"
i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double
the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac >>>>>>> and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do you
get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
Exactly. Bang that through a rectifier into a capacitor and subtract a couple of volts for diode drop and you get 168V DC offload.
On 04/09/2025 17:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-04 15:03, Daniel70 wrote:Don't use an LC filter,. Just a C.
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" >>>>>>>>>>> is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active >>>>>>>>>>> wire and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an >>>>>>>>>> SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied >>>>>>>>> that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be >>>>>>>>> about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because >>>>>>>> the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd >>>>>>>> service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has >>>>>>> the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak"
i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double >>>>>> the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac >>>>>>>> and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do you
get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
How could you possibly expect to get an AVERAGE (smoothed) value of
168V DC??
If you Full wave rectified the Sine Wave (so you had two Positive
bumps per Cycle) and you then Filtered that (to produce DC), sure,
you might get an UNLOADED 170V DC'ish ..... but not very useful!!
Actually, you also get nearly 170V dc under some load, with a good LC
filter. If the load is higher, you need a transistor to smooth it out
at a lower voltage.
On 9/4/25 2:16 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/09/2025 14:03, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Are you serious?
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" >>>>>>>>>>> is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active >>>>>>>>>>> wire and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an >>>>>>>>>> SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied >>>>>>>>> that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be >>>>>>>>> about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because >>>>>>>> the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd >>>>>>>> service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has >>>>>>> the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak"
i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double >>>>>> the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac >>>>>>>> and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do you
get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
Exactly. Bang that through a rectifier into a capacitor and subtract a
couple of volts for diode drop and you get 168V DC offload.
Ummmmm ... NOT what I've seen.
FORGET the math ... it's working with voltage
numbers TOO transient. Put a meter on it.
120vac, properly filtered thru multiple de-ripple
stages, becomes about 100vdc - at best.
WHY do people keep talking about "post nuclear war" ???
That's like a 1950s movie fantasy.
Not really such a thing.
Yea yea, some deep-Pacific islanders and Afghan goat
herders MIGHT (poorly) survive, but ........
We DO have the power to SEVERELY fuck the planet.
There's really no "after" for practical purposes.
Forget it.
On 9/4/25 2:25 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/09/2025 17:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-04 15:03, Daniel70 wrote:Don't use an LC filter,. Just a C.
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our >>>>>>>>>>>> "Mains" is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the >>>>>>>>>>>> Active wire and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in >>>>>>>>>>> an SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied >>>>>>>>>> that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be >>>>>>>>>> about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because >>>>>>>>> the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd >>>>>>>>> service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* >>>>>>>> has the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak" >>>>>>> i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e.
Double the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac >>>>>>>>> and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do
you get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
How could you possibly expect to get an AVERAGE (smoothed) value of
168V DC??
If you Full wave rectified the Sine Wave (so you had two Positive
bumps per Cycle) and you then Filtered that (to produce DC), sure,
you might get an UNLOADED 170V DC'ish ..... but not very useful!!
Actually, you also get nearly 170V dc under some load, with a good LC
filter. If the load is higher, you need a transistor to smooth it out
at a lower voltage.
Ummmmmm .... 'C', if really high ... can do a
pretty good job. However THAT much 'C' has its
own design issues. MAY need a relay - that first
charges the cap thru a resistor and then finally
puts it fully online.
On, 'tick', finally ...
Frankly, a moderate amount of 'C' - combined with LC
stages - will give you the smoothest profile. WILL
reduce the DC voltage, but it'll be NICE voltage.
AC and DC never QUITE get along. It's all a kludge.
What about the home grown filth? Like you hating on people the
majority of whom you have never met or began to know.
We have people like you in the USA, one is an inept President right
now. Of course he was elected because people like you supported him
and some people who were fooled by his pre-election promises of
relief from the inflation due to his earlier tax cuts and Covid-19 restrictions and relief. We call your attitude fascism and I hate, in general, fascism and people who believe in such matters as ruling
without the consent of the governed.
On 04/09/2025 23:19, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
What about the home grown filth? Like you hating on people theUnusual to agree with you here Bobbie, but in this I do.
majority of whom you have never met or began to know.
We have people like you in the USA, one is an inept President right
now. Of course he was elected because people like you supported him
and some people who were fooled by his pre-election promises of
relief from the inflation due to his earlier tax cuts and Covid-19
restrictions and relief. We call your attitude fascism and I hate, in
general, fascism and people who believe in such matters as ruling
without the consent of the governed.
Sadly as you have seen in so many countries, it's not Left or Right that
is the defining quality, it is totalitarian versus democracy.
Marxists are simply fascists calling themselves anti-fascists.
The Woke/Green/Libral 'thaing' is as Fascist as Donald Trump. Both
intend to impose ideology instead of addressing issues pragmatically.
Both now see Democracy as setting a dangerous precedent.
This is not good.
In Europe we have the same problem with the EU, which has eliminated democracy from its structures.
And of course that Nice Mr Putin 'Democracy means One Man, One Vote, and
I am that man'...
On 2025-09-04 15:03, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" >>>>>>>>>> is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active wire >>>>>>>>>> and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an >>>>>>>>> SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied >>>>>>>> that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be
about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because
the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd >>>>>>> service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has >>>>>> the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak"
i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double
the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac >>>>>>> and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do you
get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
How could you possibly expect to get an AVERAGE (smoothed) value of
168V DC??
If you Full wave rectified the Sine Wave (so you had two Positive
bumps per Cycle) and you then Filtered that (to produce DC), sure, you
might get an UNLOADED 170V DC'ish ..... but not very useful!!
Actually, you also get nearly 170V dc under some load, with a good LC filter. If the load is higher, you need a transistor to smooth it out at
a lower voltage.
On 9/4/25 12:06 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-04 15:03, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our "Mains" >>>>>>>>>>> is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the Active >>>>>>>>>>> wire and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in an >>>>>>>>>> SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied >>>>>>>>> that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be >>>>>>>>> about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because >>>>>>>> the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd >>>>>>>> service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* has >>>>>>> the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak"
i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e. Double >>>>>> the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac >>>>>>>> and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do you
get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
How could you possibly expect to get an AVERAGE (smoothed) value of
168V DC??
If you Full wave rectified the Sine Wave (so you had two Positive
bumps per Cycle) and you then Filtered that (to produce DC), sure,
you might get an UNLOADED 170V DC'ish ..... but not very useful!!
Actually, you also get nearly 170V dc under some load, with a good LC
filter. If the load is higher, you need a transistor to smooth it out
at a lower voltage.
At zero load you MAY see those higher voltages.
However real world, heavy loads ......
On 9/5/25 4:32 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 04/09/2025 23:19, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
What about the home grown filth? Like you hating on people theUnusual to agree with you here Bobbie, but in this I do.
majority of whom you have never met or began to know.
We have people like you in the USA, one is an inept President right
now. Of course he was elected because people like you supported him
and some people who were fooled by his pre-election promises of
relief from the inflation due to his earlier tax cuts and Covid-19
restrictions and relief. We call your attitude fascism and I hate, in
general, fascism and people who believe in such matters as ruling
without the consent of the governed.
Sadly as you have seen in so many countries, it's not Left or Right
that is the defining quality, it is totalitarian versus democracy.
Marxists are simply fascists calling themselves anti-fascists.
The Woke/Green/Libral 'thaing' is as Fascist as Donald Trump. Both
intend to impose ideology instead of addressing issues pragmatically.
Both now see Democracy as setting a dangerous precedent.
This is not good.
In Europe we have the same problem with the EU, which has eliminated
democracy from its structures.
And of course that Nice Mr Putin 'Democracy means One Man, One Vote,
and I am that man'...
ZERO good between modern WokieComs and 'fascists'.
All dedicated to Total Control for their own glory
and purposes. Super SUPER sucky regardless.
But there's NO 'sensible center' anymore. Does
not play well on the MSM. They need FLAMES to
get good ratings.
So, guess what we GET ?
On 05/09/2025 10:10, c186282 wrote:
On 9/4/25 12:06 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:In general its about 20% above RMS.
On 2025-09-04 15:03, Daniel70 wrote:
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
And, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our >>>>>>>>>>>> "Mains" is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the >>>>>>>>>>>> Active wire and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in >>>>>>>>>>> an SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them...
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120V supplied >>>>>>>>>> that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak would be >>>>>>>>>> about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because >>>>>>>>> the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd >>>>>>>>> service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* >>>>>>>> has the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak" >>>>>>> i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e.
Double the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac >>>>>>>>> and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do
you get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak
Negative Value of -170V.
How could you possibly expect to get an AVERAGE (smoothed) value of
168V DC??
If you Full wave rectified the Sine Wave (so you had two Positive
bumps per Cycle) and you then Filtered that (to produce DC), sure,
you might get an UNLOADED 170V DC'ish ..... but not very useful!!
Actually, you also get nearly 170V dc under some load, with a good LC
filter. If the load is higher, you need a transistor to smooth it out
at a lower voltage.
At zero load you MAY see those higher voltages.
However real world, heavy loads ......
So 120vAC would be usable at around 150V DC average
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 06:30:36 -0400, c186282 wrote:
DEPRESSING that there are no world standards THIS far on ! Hell, even
just 'western' standards !
Damn globalists want to control everything.
On 05/09/2025 10:01, c186282 wrote:
On 9/5/25 4:32 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:Yes.
On 04/09/2025 23:19, Bobbie Sellers wrote:
What about the home grown filth? Like you hating on people theUnusual to agree with you here Bobbie, but in this I do.
majority of whom you have never met or began to know.
We have people like you in the USA, one is an inept President right
now. Of course he was elected because people like you supported him
and some people who were fooled by his pre-election promises of
relief from the inflation due to his earlier tax cuts and Covid-19
restrictions and relief. We call your attitude fascism and I hate, in
general, fascism and people who believe in such matters as ruling
without the consent of the governed.
Sadly as you have seen in so many countries, it's not Left or Right
that is the defining quality, it is totalitarian versus democracy.
Marxists are simply fascists calling themselves anti-fascists.
The Woke/Green/Libral 'thaing' is as Fascist as Donald Trump. Both
intend to impose ideology instead of addressing issues pragmatically.
Both now see Democracy as setting a dangerous precedent.
This is not good.
In Europe we have the same problem with the EU, which has eliminated
democracy from its structures.
And of course that Nice Mr Putin 'Democracy means One Man, One Vote,
and I am that man'...
ZERO good between modern WokieComs and 'fascists'.
All dedicated to Total Control for their own glory
and purposes. Super SUPER sucky regardless.
But there's NO 'sensible center' anymore. DoesWell MSM are losing their power. People watch even weirder shit on the InterWeb.
not play well on the MSM. They need FLAMES to
get good ratings.
On 9/5/25 5:33 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
So 120vAC would be usable at around 150V DC average
Again - PUT A METER ON IT - in real-life apps.
FORGET "The Math".
void post (void) {
On 2025-09-03, rbowman wrote:
On Wed, 3 Sep 2025 06:30:36 -0400, c186282 wrote:
DEPRESSING that there are no world standards THIS far on ! Hell, even >>> just 'western' standards !
Damn globalists want to control everything.
}
/* Fixed that for you.
Well MSM are losing their power. People watch even weirder shit on the
InterWeb.
Already seeing some of it ....
But, not necessarily 'better'.
Long LONG back I coined the term "Dali-ocracy" ...
a universe where you could not be SURE of ANYTHING
you heard or saw on ANY media/means.
NO kind of 'democracy' can work in such a universe.
'Democracy' requires INFORMED decisions.
No matter what, SOMEBODY "out there" are your moral/ethical
SUPERIORS....
On 05/09/2025 10:46, c186282 wrote:
On 9/5/25 5:33 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
So 120vAC would be usable at around 150V DC average
Again - PUT A METER ON IT - in real-life apps.
FORGET "The Math".
Well that isn't a great deal of use if you have already ordered 1000
very expensive transformers and capacitors and you find that the voltage
is either too high for your transistors to withstand, or too low to
deliver the power that your customers demand...
The calculations are simple enough.
On 05/09/2025 11:00, c186282 wrote:
Welcome to the basic staring point of philosophical inquiry, and theWell MSM are losing their power. People watch even weirder shit on
the InterWeb.
Already seeing some of it ....
But, not necessarily 'better'.
Long LONG back I coined the term "Dali-ocracy" ...
a universe where you could not be SURE of ANYTHING
you heard or saw on ANY media/means.
first stage of growing up...
NO kind of 'democracy' can work in such a universe.
'Democracy' requires INFORMED decisions.
Actually, its clear that it doesn't. And in fact the current
politicians do everything they can to make sure no one is informed .
But in the end if things are bad and getting worse, people will always
blame their leaders (and rightly so), and either kill them or remove
them using 'democracy'
I remember vividly a conversation in a small town in France with the
owner of a small café where we went for a coffee. I asked the proprietor about whether he was for Macron or Marine Le Pen, or who?
He shrugged as only a Frenchman can. "We vote right. More taxes. We vote Left. More taxes.... "
Trump, in his infinitely stupid simple mindedness
On 05/09/2025 11:27, c186282 wrote:
No matter what, SOMEBODY "out there" are your moral/ethical
SUPERIORS....
...== Some cunt telling you what to think and how to feel.
VERY dangerous if the world changes and you aren't used to reacting to
it as it actually is, rather than as you have been told it is...
On 9/5/25 6:14 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/09/2025 10:46, c186282 wrote:
On 9/5/25 5:33 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
So 120vAC would be usable at around 150V DC average
Again - PUT A METER ON IT - in real-life apps.
FORGET "The Math".
Well that isn't a great deal of use if you have already ordered 1000
very expensive transformers and capacitors and you find that the
voltage is either too high for your transistors to withstand, or too
low to deliver the power that your customers demand...
Better send back the 1000 transfomers ...
The calculations are simple enough.
TELLING you ... the calx will LIE to you.
Been there, seen that.
Heavier loads, do NOT rely on the calx.
Whatever, add 25-50 percent.
And yea ... AC->DC ... DO use 'C' *and* 'LC'
filtering.
On 9/5/25 6:31 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Trump, in his infinitely stupid simple mindedness
You're misreading him.
But you'll NEVER believe that - TDS is
rotting your brain.
On 05/09/2025 11:54, c186282 wrote:
On 9/5/25 6:31 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Trump, in his infinitely stupid simple mindedness
You're misreading him.
But you'll NEVER believe that - TDS is
rotting your brain.
It don't matter whether I believe him or not. It's whether his core
voters continue to believe in him. And whether TDS is in fact a MAGA feature.
On 05/09/2025 09:03, c186282 wrote:
On 9/4/25 2:25 PM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:You will find that the diodes have forward resistance enough usually
On 04/09/2025 17:06, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-04 15:03, Daniel70 wrote:Don't use an LC filter,. Just a C.
On 4/09/2025 2:13 am, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 03/09/2025 13:44, c186282 wrote:
On 9/3/25 8:20 AM, Daniel70 wrote:No., with capacitative smoothing its nearly 168V DC
On 3/09/2025 4:11 am, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2025-09-02 14:28, c186282 wrote:
On 9/2/25 8:07 AM, Daniel70 wrote:
On 1/09/2025 11:34 pm, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 01/09/2025 14:02, Daniel70 wrote:
<Snip>
Somewhere here I read where someone refered to a 120VAnd, as I've mentioned before, here in Australia, our >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mains" is 240V RMS so peaks out at about 340V between the >>>>>>>>>>>>> Active wire and the Neutral/Earth.
Everywhere it's R.M.S. Which is why mains reservoir caps in >>>>>>>>>>>> an SMPS are 400V rated as are the diodes feeding them... >>>>>>>>>>>
supplied that they typed was 90V effective. To me, 120V peak >>>>>>>>>>> would be about 90V RMS (or effective).
Roughly, yes. It's sort of the REASON for 120vac - because >>>>>>>>>> the effective energy is about the same as Edison's old 90vcd >>>>>>>>>> service.
There is something wrong with that. 120ac rms aka 170ac *ptp* >>>>>>>>> has the same thermal effect as 120 dc.
Sorry, Carlos, but is that "ptp" supposed to mean "Peak to Peak" >>>>>>>> i.e. from Most Positive Value to Most Negative Value?? i.e.
Double the Peak Value and almost TRIPLE the RMS value??
"AC/DC" appliances, "universal motors", work because 120vac >>>>>>>>>> and 90vdc are very similar in some important ways.
USA had to support competing systems for quite awhile.
Just look at what you get if you put the 120vac through
a full-wave rectifier with a load. It's close, though
not exactly of course, equiv to 90vdc.
Its still 120V RMS, even though the waveform is kooky.
Its never equivalent to 90V DC in any universe I know of.
Sorry!! WHAT?? By feeding in a 120V RMS waveform, how the hell do
you get anywhere near 168V DC??
The 120V RMS waveform has a Peak Positive Value of +170V and a Peak >>>>> Negative Value of -170V.
How could you possibly expect to get an AVERAGE (smoothed) value of >>>>> 168V DC??
If you Full wave rectified the Sine Wave (so you had two Positive
bumps per Cycle) and you then Filtered that (to produce DC), sure,
you might get an UNLOADED 170V DC'ish ..... but not very useful!!
Actually, you also get nearly 170V dc under some load, with a good
LC filter. If the load is higher, you need a transistor to smooth it
out at a lower voltage.
Ummmmmm .... 'C', if really high ... can do a
pretty good job. However THAT much 'C' has its
own design issues. MAY need a relay - that first
charges the cap thru a resistor and then finally
puts it fully online.
and in special cases a thermistor can be used to limit inrush current.
On, 'tick', finally ...No one uses 'L's any more. We have electronics . A modern SMPSU doesnt
Frankly, a moderate amount of 'C' - combined with LC
stages - will give you the smoothest profile. WILL
reduce the DC voltage, but it'll be NICE voltage.
care about the ripple since its electronically regulated to deliver a smoothed output no matter what the input voltage is, by the magic of negative feedback.
I have a late model Fender guitar amplifier that has no mains
transformers AT ALL. The mains is SMPSU'ed down to ±70v or thereabouts
and the output stages are ALSO PWM to class D.
Most of the amplifier is digital as well. Done in software.
Modern power FETS and digital circuits were a wet dream when I started designing power electronics.
AC and DC never QUITE get along. It's all a kludge.Of course they get along.
You just have to introduce them properly...:-)
On 9/5/25 7:04 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 05/09/2025 11:54, c186282 wrote:
On 9/5/25 6:31 AM, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
Trump, in his infinitely stupid simple mindedness
You're misreading him.
But you'll NEVER believe that - TDS is
rotting your brain.
It don't matter whether I believe him or not. It's whether his core
voters continue to believe in him. And whether TDS is in fact a MAGA
feature.
Ummm ... very "political".
Alas, as often seen, Trump gets it RIGHT far
more often than not. He's more than you, MSM,
tend to see.
But the MSM won't ever SAY that.
Just "Fascist/NAZI/Fascist" from them ...
never-ending. Nothing better to offer.
Trump on the EU and friends - BE afraid.
Good reasons for that these days.
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