From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

There has been a long tendency in Linux/comp groups
to horribly attack, belittle, abuse, anybody who has
had a 'different experience' and sees things a little
off some kinda poorly-defined 'norm'.

Sorry, we all didn't come up on the same track.
A thousand different paths, a thousand different
styles of apps/needs/solutions. Computers let
you DO that.

Hey, if I feel the need to use files instead
of 'pipes' then I WANT TO USE FILES INSTEAD
OF PIPES. Don't like it ? Tuff titty. Any
'contributions' will be to tell me how to
maximize that approach - not to rain down piss.

(actually I think pipes are better - but there
are and will be other approaches/reasons)

The recent elections kinda upset the Linux/Unix
groups - a lot of politics promoted a lot of
threads. Well, the elections are OVER now.
Back to business.

BUT ... consider ... "back to business" does
not need to mean "back to old habits". We all
can do BETTER, move towards the future instead
of being at each others throats over NOTHING.

Just sayin'

Most everybody here seems to have been in the
groove since (or during) PUNCH CARDS. Let's
not be petty. We all did it OUR WAY.

Hey, I remember the giant handful of punch
cards - DON'T DROP 'EM ! :-)
--
033-33
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc



On Mon, 18 Nov 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

There has been a long tendency in Linux/comp groups
to horribly attack, belittle, abuse, anybody who has
had a 'different experience' and sees things a little
off some kinda poorly-defined 'norm'.

Sorry, we all didn't come up on the same track.
A thousand different paths, a thousand different
styles of apps/needs/solutions. Computers let
you DO that.

Hey, if I feel the need to use files instead
of 'pipes' then I WANT TO USE FILES INSTEAD
OF PIPES. Don't like it ? Tuff titty. Any
'contributions' will be to tell me how to
maximize that approach - not to rain down piss.

(actually I think pipes are better - but there
are and will be other approaches/reasons)

The recent elections kinda upset the Linux/Unix
groups - a lot of politics promoted a lot of
threads. Well, the elections are OVER now.
Back to business.

BUT ... consider ... "back to business" does
not need to mean "back to old habits". We all
can do BETTER, move towards the future instead
of being at each others throats over NOTHING.

Just sayin'

Most everybody here seems to have been in the
groove since (or during) PUNCH CARDS. Let's
not be petty. We all did it OUR WAY.

Hey, I remember the giant handful of punch
cards - DON'T DROP 'EM ! :-)

Are you saying we should disregard the emperor? Doesn't he teach us that
our hate makes us stronger?
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 11/18/24 06:20, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Most everybody here seems to have been in the
groove since (or during) PUNCH CARDS. Let's
not be petty. We all did it OUR WAY.

Hey, I remember the giant handful of punch
cards - DON'T DROP 'EM !  :-)

When I started Uni they showed us their computers with punch cards, so I avoided the computers until they had terminals, vt100 at least.

Anyway make Linux great again.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

"186282@ud0s4.net" <186283@ud0s4.net> writes:

There has been a long tendency in Linux/comp groups
to horribly attack, belittle, abuse, anybody who has
had a 'different experience' and sees things a little
off some kinda poorly-defined 'norm'.

Sorry, we all didn't come up on the same track.
A thousand different paths, a thousand different
styles of apps/needs/solutions. Computers let
you DO that.

Hey, if I feel the need to use files instead
of 'pipes' then I WANT TO USE FILES INSTEAD
OF PIPES. Don't like it ? Tuff titty. Any
'contributions' will be to tell me how to
maximize that approach - not to rain down piss.

Precisely nobody is telling you that you can’t use files.

If the issue here is that you don’t like being told that pipes aren’t
the same as regular files, well, maybe consider not posting that they
are the same?
--
https://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:

Hey, if I feel the need to use files instead of 'pipes' then I WANT
TO USE FILES INSTEAD OF PIPES.

Except you did not say you were "using files instead of 'pipes'".

What you said, in Message-ID: <hzSdnTUBKbG_YKv6nZ2dnZfqnPQAAAAA@earthlink.com> was:

186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:

...

Pipes are good.

But, really, they're just temp files the parent process can access.

When reality is that pipes have not been "just temp files" since the
day's of MSDOS's fake "pipes", and for Unix systems, pipes have never
been "just temp files".

And when challenged, you doubled down on the just temp files parts.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 11/18/2024 05:46, Rich wrote:

186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:

Hey, if I feel the need to use files instead of 'pipes' then I WANT
TO USE FILES INSTEAD OF PIPES.

Except you did not say you were "using files instead of 'pipes'".

What you said, in Message-ID: <hzSdnTUBKbG_YKv6nZ2dnZfqnPQAAAAA@earthlink.com>
was:

186282@ud0s4.net <186283@ud0s4.net> wrote:

...

Pipes are good.

But, really, they're just temp files the parent process can access.

When reality is that pipes have not been "just temp files" since the
day's of MSDOS's fake "pipes", and for Unix systems, pipes have never
been "just temp files".

And when challenged, you doubled down on the just temp files parts.

I think the point that is being made by calling pipes a "temp files" is
that they are not persistent. When the computer is turned off they
disappear (unlike files on hard (persistent) storage). Granted a pipe
might re-appear later when the system is back up and running but my
professor always said, don't expect any guarantees with pipes. They may
be there, they may not be there, you might be able to use them one
minute and they disappear the next. Consider them temporary aberrations
until proven otherwise.

Chances are that the pipes of today are more solid then the pipes of yesteryear, but we've all grown up at different times with different
states of computing and different upbringings. There are pros and cons
to everything, including using files AND using pipes. To each their own.

I wouldn't argue about the small things like this.
--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 01:20:53 -0500, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

Hey, if I feel the need to use files instead of 'pipes' then I WANT TO
USE FILES INSTEAD OF PIPES.

Except ... you were trying to argue that there was no fundamental
difference between pipes and files anyway. That you could somehow do everything you could do with pipes by using temporary files.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 09:45:07 -0500, Phillip Frabott wrote:

I think the point that is being made by calling pipes a "temp files" is
that they are not persistent.

Named pipes can indeed be persistent.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 11/18/24 4:13 AM, D wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

There has been a long tendency in Linux/comp groups
to horribly attack, belittle, abuse, anybody who has
had a 'different experience' and sees things a little
off some kinda poorly-defined 'norm'.

Sorry, we all didn't come up on the same track.
A thousand different paths, a thousand different
styles of apps/needs/solutions. Computers let
you DO that.

Hey, if I feel the need to use files instead
of 'pipes' then I WANT TO USE FILES INSTEAD
OF PIPES. Don't like it ? Tuff titty. Any
'contributions' will be to tell me how to
maximize that approach - not to rain down piss.

(actually I think pipes are better - but there
are and will be other approaches/reasons)

The recent elections kinda upset the Linux/Unix
groups - a lot of politics promoted a lot of
threads. Well, the elections are OVER now.
Back to business.

BUT ... consider ... "back to business" does
not need to mean "back to old habits". We all
can do BETTER, move towards the future instead
of being at each others throats over NOTHING.

Just sayin'

Most everybody here seems to have been in the
groove since (or during) PUNCH CARDS. Let's
not be petty. We all did it OUR WAY.

Hey, I remember the giant handful of punch
cards - DON'T DROP 'EM !  :-)

Are you saying we should disregard the emperor? Doesn't he teach us that
our hate makes us stronger?

Well, the 'woke' really did try to show us the
power of higher, gigabuck-funded, hate :-)

But that's all over for now.

In any case, I prefer to see these comp groups
as being much better when they are collaborative,
rather than derogative. Be you old boy or newbie,
everybody has a different 'vision', a slightly
different take on 'how it should be done'. Adding
1000 cuts and ad-homs - all too common on usenet -
does not represent any kind of improvement.

Just wanted to say it.

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

--8323328-1479926253-1732093299=:16130
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT



On Tue, 19 Nov 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

On 11/18/24 4:13 AM, D wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024, 186282@ud0s4.net wrote:

There has been a long tendency in Linux/comp groups
to horribly attack, belittle, abuse, anybody who has
had a 'different experience' and sees things a little
off some kinda poorly-defined 'norm'.

Sorry, we all didn't come up on the same track.
A thousand different paths, a thousand different
styles of apps/needs/solutions. Computers let
you DO that.

Hey, if I feel the need to use files instead
of 'pipes' then I WANT TO USE FILES INSTEAD
OF PIPES. Don't like it ? Tuff titty. Any
'contributions' will be to tell me how to
maximize that approach - not to rain down piss.

(actually I think pipes are better - but there
are and will be other approaches/reasons)

The recent elections kinda upset the Linux/Unix
groups - a lot of politics promoted a lot of
threads. Well, the elections are OVER now.
Back to business.

BUT ... consider ... "back to business" does
not need to mean "back to old habits". We all
can do BETTER, move towards the future instead
of being at each others throats over NOTHING.

Just sayin'

Most everybody here seems to have been in the
groove since (or during) PUNCH CARDS. Let's
not be petty. We all did it OUR WAY.

Hey, I remember the giant handful of punch
cards - DON'T DROP 'EM !  :-)

Are you saying we should disregard the emperor? Doesn't he teach us that
our hate makes us stronger?

Well, the 'woke' really did try to show us the
power of higher, gigabuck-funded, hate :-)

But that's all over for now.

In any case, I prefer to see these comp groups
as being much better when they are collaborative,
rather than derogative. Be you old boy or newbie,
everybody has a different 'vision', a slightly
different take on 'how it should be done'. Adding
1000 cuts and ad-homs - all too common on usenet -
does not represent any kind of improvement.

Just wanted to say it.

You are a wise man, 186282!
--8323328-1479926253-1732093299=:16130--
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 11/19/2024 19:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 09:45:07 -0500, Phillip Frabott wrote:

I think the point that is being made by calling pipes a "temp files" is
that they are not persistent.

Named pipes can indeed be persistent.

Sure, but then your just creating a file with all the limitations that
come from that. IPC only benefits you when you use unnamed or
traditional pipes (performance and resources). Also, the pipe still
requires something on the other side of the transaction which might not
exist at some later point. Whereas a file on hard storage will almost
always be able to be transacted (assuming permissions of course)
regardless of what processes are (or are not) available. Also pipes also require realtime processing, whereas storing things in a file can
provide for delayed/deferred processing at a later time.

Now, sure piping a command may be less typing, but there is no real
tangible benefit from the technical side from using a pipe vs typing the command out over multiple lines of commands, the transaction remains the
same in both cases. But having non-persistent pipes gives you speed and performance perks (and in most cases uses less RAM). So if your going to
do named pipes just know you aren't getting the real benefits of the IPC
if it's just going to write a file anyways.
--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Thu, 21 Nov 2024 02:05:46 -0500, Phillip Frabott wrote:

On 11/19/2024 19:23, Lawrence D'Oliveiro wrote:

On Mon, 18 Nov 2024 09:45:07 -0500, Phillip Frabott wrote:

I think the point that is being made by calling pipes a "temp files"
is that they are not persistent.

Named pipes can indeed be persistent.

Sure, but then your just creating a file with all the limitations that
come from that.

Not at all. It still has the same synchronization behaviour.

IPC only benefits you when you use unnamed or traditional pipes
(performance and resources).

Certainly not.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114