From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

So I'm considering a move from my own source-built install of Linux to something else. Trying to install new versions of KDE have become a
problem and I'm not interested in going the LFS route. I've started to consider other distros. I looked at Arch/Manjaro which I thought were
close to what I wanted but I didn't like the fact that most things are
still binary. As a source-only type of guy I was hoping to find
something that was more source-only based. A friend recommended I use
Gentoo. I took a quick look at the web site but I wanted to get a few
thoughts from others.

My basic requirements are as follows.

1: Needs to be fully source built. No pre-built binaries or shortcuts.
This includes during initial installation as well. (I'm sure a few core pre-builts are required for the install disc/USB flash to work. I'll
accept that if I have to, but install to /dev/sda should be built from
source)

2: Needs to be fully configurable. If I want to remove /usr I should be
able to do so (I won't do that but this expresses the amount of config
freedom I want out of it).

3: Needs to support manual building from source without a package
manager should I need to. (I don't mind if the main system uses a
package manager to build from source but I want to be able to have the
option not to use a package manager once the system is up, something
that is hard to do with Arch/Manjaro)

4: I want to be able to use Systemd. I know Gentoo uses OpenRC but I've
heard I can use Systemd instead.

5: I need to be able to use GRUB as a bootloader.

6: I need to still dual-boot Windows 11. I work from home and
unfortunately I need to have access to Windows 11 on the same machine.
Since GRUB would be required, I assume this is a non-issue but I'm
putting it on the list anyways.

Based on all that, would you all recommend Gentoo as a viable option for
my requirements? If not, what would be other options you'd recommend
that fit all these requirements?

[ Please note, I'm not going to discuss alternatives to GRUB, KDE, and Systemd. I'm sure everyone has their own opinions about these but I'm
just not interested in switching to anything else. ]

Thank you all for your time,
--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 08/11/2024 19.32, Phillip Frabott wrote:

So I'm considering a move from my own source-built install of Linux to something else. Trying to install new versions of KDE have become a
problem and I'm not interested in going the LFS route. I've started to consider other distros. I looked at Arch/Manjaro which I thought were
close to what I wanted but I didn't like the fact that most things are
still binary. As a source-only type of guy I was hoping to find
something that was more source-only based. A friend recommended I use Gentoo. I took a quick look at the web site but I wanted to get a few thoughts from others.

My basic requirements are as follows.

1: Needs to be fully source built. No pre-built binaries or shortcuts.
This includes during initial installation as well. (I'm sure a few core pre-builts are required for the install disc/USB flash to work. I'll
accept that if I have to, but install to /dev/sda should be built from source)

Most people install stage 3, this has the core prebuilt, you are free to explore stage 1 or stage 2 installation, not as well documented.

2: Needs to be fully configurable. If I want to remove /usr I should be
able to do so (I won't do that but this expresses the amount of config freedom I want out of it).

As long as you don't use systemd you should have full control of your
setup, for sure some stuff may need you to patch builds yourself if you
stray too far from the "default".

3: Needs to support manual building from source without a package
manager should I need to. (I don't mind if the main system uses a
package manager to build from source but I want to be able to have the option not to use a package manager once the system is up, something
that is hard to do with Arch/Manjaro)

All distros supports building, just no distro's package manager will be
aware of your manual built stuff

The ebuild is the instruction how to build, so if you know what to do on
the command line, then it will not be too difficult to write a simple
ebuild for it and then things are taken care of. You will have saved
time already if you compile something more than once.

Keep in mind that Gentoo has USE flags, which enables/disables features
in a package, so you shouldn't build your own version of libpng
manually, but adjust the USE flags to get one that fits you. Otherwise
when you emerge a package that depends on libpng, it will build a libpng
based on the defaults and that application you wanted will use the
gentoo libpng and not the one you built.

4: I want to be able to use Systemd. I know Gentoo uses OpenRC but I've heard I can use Systemd instead.

Yes, Gentoo allows you to use systemd instead of OpenRC, but that comes
with it's limitations.

5: I need to be able to use GRUB as a bootloader.

Gentoo uses GRUB2, it dropped support for GRUB quite many years ago.

6: I need to still dual-boot Windows 11. I work from home and
unfortunately I need to have access to Windows 11 on the same machine.
Since GRUB would be required, I assume this is a non-issue but I'm
putting it on the list anyways.

lilo works too for dual boot... but default for amd64 installs is GRUB2.
--
//Aho


--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On Sat, 9 Nov 2024 00:34:41 +0100, J.O. Aho wrote:

Yes, Gentoo allows you to use systemd instead of OpenRC, but that comes
with it's limitations.

Such as? Gentoo’s own wiki <https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems> doesn’t show
any red squares or other caveats for either OpenRC or systemd.
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 11/8/2024 18:34, J.O. Aho wrote:

On 08/11/2024 19.32, Phillip Frabott wrote:

So I'm considering a move from my own source-built install of Linux to
something else. Trying to install new versions of KDE have become a
problem and I'm not interested in going the LFS route. I've started to
consider other distros. I looked at Arch/Manjaro which I thought were
close to what I wanted but I didn't like the fact that most things are
still binary. As a source-only type of guy I was hoping to find
something that was more source-only based. A friend recommended I use
Gentoo. I took a quick look at the web site but I wanted to get a few
thoughts from others.

My basic requirements are as follows.

1: Needs to be fully source built. No pre-built binaries or shortcuts.
This includes during initial installation as well. (I'm sure a few
core pre-builts are required for the install disc/USB flash to work.
I'll accept that if I have to, but install to /dev/sda should be built
from source)

Most people install stage 3, this has the core prebuilt, you are free to explore stage 1 or stage 2 installation, not as well documented.

2: Needs to be fully configurable. If I want to remove /usr I should
be able to do so (I won't do that but this expresses the amount of
config freedom I want out of it).

As long as you don't use systemd you should have full control of your
setup, for sure some stuff may need you to patch builds yourself if you stray too far from the "default".

3: Needs to support manual building from source without a package
manager should I need to. (I don't mind if the main system uses a
package manager to build from source but I want to be able to have the
option not to use a package manager once the system is up, something
that is hard to do with Arch/Manjaro)

All distros supports building, just no distro's package manager will be aware of your manual built stuff

I had some trouble getting it to work. Likely because (in the case of Arch/Manjaro) they have their own specific directories they put things
in that was outside what I'm used to. Plus their package manager breaks
things every time you run an update since it doesn't keep older versions
it seems. Looking at the Gentoo documents it seems it keeps old
versions, requiring you to run a command to remove them. This is likely
the thing I am looking for.

The ebuild is the instruction how to build, so if you know what to do on
the command line, then it will not be too difficult to write a simple
ebuild for it and then things are taken care of. You will have saved
time already if you compile something more than once.

Keep in mind that Gentoo has USE flags, which enables/disables features
in a package, so you shouldn't build your own version of libpng
manually, but adjust the USE flags to get one that fits you. Otherwise
when you emerge a package that depends on libpng, it will build a libpng based on the defaults and that application you wanted will use the
gentoo libpng and not the one you built.

Makes sense. I'll look into the ebuild thing and writing whatever script
it needs. That might make things easier as well.

4: I want to be able to use Systemd. I know Gentoo uses OpenRC but
I've heard I can use Systemd instead.

Yes, Gentoo allows you to use systemd instead of OpenRC, but that comes
with it's limitations.

5: I need to be able to use GRUB as a bootloader.

Gentoo uses GRUB2, it dropped support for GRUB quite many years ago.

Sorry, I meant GRUB2.

6: I need to still dual-boot Windows 11. I work from home and
unfortunately I need to have access to Windows 11 on the same machine.
Since GRUB would be required, I assume this is a non-issue but I'm
putting it on the list anyways.

lilo works too for dual boot... but default for amd64 installs is GRUB2.

Thanks for your responses. I'm going to install Gentoo on a VM to test
out before I consider it for replacing my existing setup. Really
appreciate your time.
--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 11/8/24 18:05, Phillip Frabott wrote:

Makes sense. I'll look into the ebuild thing and writing whatever script
it needs. That might make things easier as well.

I would recommend that you read / familiarize yourself with creating
your own repo that can be used beside the Gentoo repo.

That way you can integrate your own packages into the Gentoo emerge
ecosystem via your own repo.

You can also copy ebuilds for versions of things that you want from the
Gentoo repo to your repo as oldest things do eventually get cleaned up
out of the Gentoo repo. But if you have a copy of the desired ebuild in
your own repo, you'll always have it.
--
Grant. . . .
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

On 11/10/2024 19:17, Grant Taylor wrote:

On 11/8/24 18:05, Phillip Frabott wrote:

Makes sense. I'll look into the ebuild thing and writing whatever
script it needs. That might make things easier as well.

I would recommend that you read / familiarize yourself with creating
your own repo that can be used beside the Gentoo repo.

That way you can integrate your own packages into the Gentoo emerge ecosystem via your own repo.

You can also copy ebuilds for versions of things that you want from the Gentoo repo to your repo as oldest things do eventually get cleaned up
out of the Gentoo repo.  But if you have a copy of the desired ebuild in your own repo, you'll always have it.

I just finished getting a base system up and running with X-KDE going on
it. Not much else yet though. I'm still working through how the systems
of Gentoo work and what world profiles are. While documented well, the
world profile system isn't explained very well. It says what it does,
but not how or why. My best guess is it just sets a bunch of different
USE statements for each package one by one but that's just my guess.
I'll have to look into the files myself to understand what exactly the
@world does. However, the functionality of the system and how it builds
is pretty neat. I will look more into the ebuild system soon. It is
likely I'll still be manually building things for a little while (old
habits die hard) but as I get more time with it, I'll eventually figure everything out and likely will try to integrate source code with the
ebuild system. I'm sure it's not too hard to do. It'll be interesting to figure it out with SMAUG or ROM mud servers. Not sure if it can be, but
it'll be a good project to try once I figure everything out.
--
Phillip Frabott
----------
- Adam: Is a void really a void if it returns?
- Jack: No, it's just nullspace at that point.
----------
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Hello Phillip,

Gentoo would likely be a suitable option for your requirements. It is
fully source-based and highly configurable, allowing for custom builds
and modifications. You can choose to use Systemd instead of OpenRC, and
GRUB can be used as the bootloader. Gentoo also supports dual-booting
with Windows 11. Given your emphasis on source-only builds and manual
building flexibility, Gentoo aligns well with your preferences.

Regards,

Tom

On 08/11/2024 19:32, Phillip Frabott wrote:

So I'm considering a move from my own source-built install of Linux to something else. Trying to install new versions of KDE have become a
problem and I'm not interested in going the LFS route. I've started to consider other distros. I looked at Arch/Manjaro which I thought were
close to what I wanted but I didn't like the fact that most things are
still binary. As a source-only type of guy I was hoping to find
something that was more source-only based. A friend recommended I use Gentoo. I took a quick look at the web site but I wanted to get a few thoughts from others.

My basic requirements are as follows.

1: Needs to be fully source built. No pre-built binaries or shortcuts.
This includes during initial installation as well. (I'm sure a few
core pre-builts are required for the install disc/USB flash to work.
I'll accept that if I have to, but install to /dev/sda should be built
from source)

2: Needs to be fully configurable. If I want to remove /usr I should
be able to do so (I won't do that but this expresses the amount of
config freedom I want out of it).

3: Needs to support manual building from source without a package
manager should I need to. (I don't mind if the main system uses a
package manager to build from source but I want to be able to have the option not to use a package manager once the system is up, something
that is hard to do with Arch/Manjaro)

4: I want to be able to use Systemd. I know Gentoo uses OpenRC but
I've heard I can use Systemd instead.

5: I need to be able to use GRUB as a bootloader.

6: I need to still dual-boot Windows 11. I work from home and
unfortunately I need to have access to Windows 11 on the same machine.
Since GRUB would be required, I assume this is a non-issue but I'm
putting it on the list anyways.

Based on all that, would you all recommend Gentoo as a viable option
for my requirements? If not, what would be other options you'd
recommend that fit all these requirements?

[ Please note, I'm not going to discuss alternatives to GRUB, KDE, and Systemd. I'm sure everyone has their own opinions about these but I'm
just not interested in switching to anything else. ]

Thank you all for your time,

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.os.linux.misc

Hello Phillip,

Gentoo would likely be a suitable option for your requirements. It is
fully source-based and highly configurable, allowing for custom builds
and modifications. You can choose to use Systemd instead of OpenRC, and
GRUB can be used as the bootloader. Gentoo also supports dual-booting
with Windows 11. Given your emphasis on source-only builds and manual
building flexibility, Gentoo aligns well with your preferences.

Regards,

Tom

On 08/11/2024 19:32, Phillip Frabott wrote:

So I'm considering a move from my own source-built install of Linux to something else. Trying to install new versions of KDE have become a
problem and I'm not interested in going the LFS route. I've started to consider other distros. I looked at Arch/Manjaro which I thought were
close to what I wanted but I didn't like the fact that most things are
still binary. As a source-only type of guy I was hoping to find
something that was more source-only based. A friend recommended I use Gentoo. I took a quick look at the web site but I wanted to get a few thoughts from others.

My basic requirements are as follows.

1: Needs to be fully source built. No pre-built binaries or shortcuts.
This includes during initial installation as well. (I'm sure a few core pre-builts are required for the install disc/USB flash to work. I'll
accept that if I have to, but install to /dev/sda should be built from source)

2: Needs to be fully configurable. If I want to remove /usr I should be
able to do so (I won't do that but this expresses the amount of config freedom I want out of it).

3: Needs to support manual building from source without a package
manager should I need to. (I don't mind if the main system uses a
package manager to build from source but I want to be able to have the option not to use a package manager once the system is up, something
that is hard to do with Arch/Manjaro)

4: I want to be able to use Systemd. I know Gentoo uses OpenRC but I've heard I can use Systemd instead.

5: I need to be able to use GRUB as a bootloader.

6: I need to still dual-boot Windows 11. I work from home and
unfortunately I need to have access to Windows 11 on the same machine.
Since GRUB would be required, I assume this is a non-issue but I'm
putting it on the list anyways.

Based on all that, would you all recommend Gentoo as a viable option for
my requirements? If not, what would be other options you'd recommend
that fit all these requirements?

[ Please note, I'm not going to discuss alternatives to GRUB, KDE, and Systemd. I'm sure everyone has their own opinions about these but I'm
just not interested in switching to anything else. ]

Thank you all for your time,

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114