On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't
like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to
install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include
it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is
plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM and did the KDE install.
On 2026-03-17 1:55 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-16, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-15 3:11 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-15, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-14 10:59 p.m., RonB wrote:
I found out what went "wrong" with my Live USB Fedora 43 "installs" didn't
work. (At least the Gnome and KDE versions.) User error. I was downloading
the Arm .ISOs, which strangely enough, did not work with my Intel CPU. Go
figure. (Not sure, though, why the Cinnamon didn't work though. There's no
Arm version of that one offered — maybe I'll try again.)
This one time, it was user error. However, there are many distributions >>>>> out there which ship broken ISOs which end up not working once
transferred to a USB thumb drive. It will generally always work with >>>>> Ubuntu and Linux Mint, but smaller distributions like Endeavour can be >>>>> hit or miss.
I have been testing a Trelby AppImage I made (following someone else's >>>> shell script) so, lately I've tried several Live USB Linux "installs" and I
have found a couple that didn't work for me. You're right about Linux Mint,
I've never had any issues with it. That's why I thought this wasn't really a
problem.
It's honestly getting to a point where if you're interested in Linux,
you're best off ignoring the existence of every distribution that isn't
Mint. With Mint, you can be sure that the ISO works as expected, that it >>> runs on your hardware no matter how old, that the drivers are installed
correctly, that the best application for every task is installed by
default and that there is a wealth of technical support available to you >>> from fellow users.
I just got an email from someone I know (online) from a screenwriting forum. >> He's (finally) about to install Linux computer on his laptop and knows I
like Mint, but said he wanted to try Zorin. So I downloaded it and tried it >> out with a Live USB. It supposedly defaults to Wayland, so I was curious how >> that would work but, on the Live USB "install" it comes up as X11. (He
specifically mentioned Wayland and that he thought it would work better than >> Xorg for scaling. He might be right — a little more about that in another >> post.) Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't >> like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to
install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include it in >> the standard install?
One thing I did like about it, though. I could use my tiny Trelby .deb
package to install Trelby and works "out of the box." That .deb file is
literally 22 kbs and it works. It just downloads what it needs. So I was
happy about that. I would still prefer Linux Mint, though (which also
installs Trelby with that installation file). As does Debian 13.4.0 (more on >> that in that other post).
If I were still interested in the operating system, I might be bothered
to check it out but my interest in Linux has worn me out the way being married to a woman possessed by a demon might.
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't
like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to
install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include
it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those
with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize
Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is
plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM >> and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to
settle on anything for very long.
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't
like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to
install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include
it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those
with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize
Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is
plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM >> and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to
settle on anything for very long.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would
take KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able
to settle on anything for very long.
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't
like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to
install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include >>>> it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those >>> with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize
Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is
plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM >>> and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take >> KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to
settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of
what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the people responsible for the breakage won't care.
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 22:04:26 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would
take KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able
to settle on anything for very long.
I follow Lunduke on X although I usually don't watch his videos. Today's rant:
The GNOME Desktop Environment has made some truly bizarre moves over the last few years.
Technical, marketing, and management. Just pure insanity.
- Restricting to only SystemD based systems.
- Restricting to only Wayland based systems.
- Hiring a “shaman” to be their Executive Director.
- Making an official “Mention Lunduke and you’re banned for life” policy.
- Harboring and defending registered sex offenders.
- Force installing Trans Pride propaganda and artwork on users computer.
- Attacking Jews, on their official website, as “leeches” and “baby killers”.
- Official spokespersons defacing wiki pages of other projects with “wrong” political views.
One horrific decision, and action, after another from the most widely used Linux Desktop Environment.
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 22:04:26 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would
take KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able
to settle on anything for very long.
I follow Lunduke on X although I usually don't watch his videos. Today's rant:
The GNOME Desktop Environment has made some truly bizarre moves over the
last few years.
Technical, marketing, and management. Just pure insanity.
- Restricting to only SystemD based systems.
- Restricting to only Wayland based systems.
- Hiring a “shaman” to be their Executive Director.
- Making an official “Mention Lunduke and you’re banned for life” policy.
- Harboring and defending registered sex offenders.
- Force installing Trans Pride propaganda and artwork on users computer.
- Attacking Jews, on their official website, as “leeches” and “baby killers”.
- Official spokespersons defacing wiki pages of other projects with “wrong” political views.
One horrific decision, and action, after another from the most widely used Linux Desktop Environment.
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't >>>>> like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to >>>>> install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include >>>>> it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those >>>> with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize >>>> Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is
plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM >>>> and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take >>> KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to
settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of
what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in
significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the
people responsible for the breakage won't care.
I installed Debian 13 and used for a few hours last night. Found some things that bothered me and I'm no longer enamored with Debian. For some reason, when I do any kind of search in Google, the computer just sits there for several seconds. I can count 1000-one, 1000-two... up to about ten seconds sometimes. I have no idea why. I thought maybe it had something to do with Firefox-ESR instead of regular Firefox, so I installed Firefox — which turned out to be a real pain in the butt. For some reason Debian doesn't
want you to install Firefox, so they block it for "security" reasons.
Mozilla has a detailed work-around, but I don't like Debian being control freaks. Then I tried to install the Microsoft core fonts, which I use in Firefox. Nope, that was also a non-starter. I haven't figured out how to bypass this yet. I found a .deb package (on Debian's own site) but it just sits there when I try to install it. Also, when I input my name and password when installing, it wouldn't let me use my normal short password. I HAD to put in a long password to install it. (Easy to change after the
installation, but it still pissed me off.) I don't know what else doesn't work but I'll probably find another distribution that uses KDE Plasma
because I would like to explore that desktop a little more. I'm not
impressed with Debian's limitations so I won't be keeping it.
On 2026-03-18, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 22:04:26 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would
take KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able >>> to settle on anything for very long.
I follow Lunduke on X although I usually don't watch his videos. Today's >> rant:
The GNOME Desktop Environment has made some truly bizarre moves over the
last few years.
Technical, marketing, and management. Just pure insanity.
- Restricting to only SystemD based systems.
- Restricting to only Wayland based systems.
- Hiring a “shaman” to be their Executive Director.
- Making an official “Mention Lunduke and you’re banned for life” policy.
- Harboring and defending registered sex offenders.
- Force installing Trans Pride propaganda and artwork on users computer.
- Attacking Jews, on their official website, as “leeches” and “baby >> killers”.
- Official spokespersons defacing wiki pages of other projects with
“wrong” political views.
One horrific decision, and action, after another from the most widely used >> Linux Desktop Environment.
I think the Linux Mint team is more interested in making a good distribution then in promoting Woke crap. I know they use Gnome's libraries in Cinnamon, but Cinnamon is not Gnome.
But I am looking at KDE Plasma again. (Linux Mint also has Mate and Xfce.)
On 2026-03-17 10:41 p.m., rbowman wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 22:04:26 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would
take KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able >>> to settle on anything for very long.
I follow Lunduke on X although I usually don't watch his videos. Today's
rant:
The GNOME Desktop Environment has made some truly bizarre moves over the
last few years.
Technical, marketing, and management. Just pure insanity.
- Restricting to only SystemD based systems.
- Restricting to only Wayland based systems.
- Hiring a “shaman” to be their Executive Director.
- Making an official “Mention Lunduke and you’re banned for life” policy.
- Harboring and defending registered sex offenders.
- Force installing Trans Pride propaganda and artwork on users computer.
- Attacking Jews, on their official website, as “leeches” and “baby
killers”.
- Official spokespersons defacing wiki pages of other projects with
“wrong” political views.
One horrific decision, and action, after another from the most widely used >> Linux Desktop Environment.
I'll repeat what I wrote on Lunduke's Locals page here. This was in
response to Debian having a vote for the _one_ female candidate who
wants to lead the project and who happens to be anti-heterosexual and anti-male:
"It's becoming pretty clear to me that the entire open-source community
is against anything traditional, but especially against white Christian males. Add the fact that there are laws emerging to cap Linux at the
knees and neutralize any kind of privacy benefit it might have offered,
and there is no reason to disregard the shoddy code anymore. It is a
fact that Windows and MacOS work better. It is also a fact that they
support the hardware better. It is also a fact that it stands a better chance of running that program you rely on every day without issue.
Clearly, the governments of the world want to destroy Linux as do the
major technological corporations, but the faggots running the thing
aren't doing themselves any favours either."
On 2026-03-18 4:04 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't >>>>>> like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to >>>>>> install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include >>>>>> it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those >>>>> with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize >>>>> Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is >>>>> plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM
and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take >>>> KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to >>>> settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of
what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in >>> significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the
people responsible for the breakage won't care.
I installed Debian 13 and used for a few hours last night. Found some things >> that bothered me and I'm no longer enamored with Debian. For some reason,
when I do any kind of search in Google, the computer just sits there for
several seconds. I can count 1000-one, 1000-two... up to about ten seconds >> sometimes. I have no idea why. I thought maybe it had something to do with >> Firefox-ESR instead of regular Firefox, so I installed Firefox — which
turned out to be a real pain in the butt. For some reason Debian doesn't
want you to install Firefox, so they block it for "security" reasons.
Mozilla has a detailed work-around, but I don't like Debian being control
freaks. Then I tried to install the Microsoft core fonts, which I use in
Firefox. Nope, that was also a non-starter. I haven't figured out how to
bypass this yet. I found a .deb package (on Debian's own site) but it just >> sits there when I try to install it. Also, when I input my name and password >> when installing, it wouldn't let me use my normal short password. I HAD to >> put in a long password to install it. (Easy to change after the
installation, but it still pissed me off.) I don't know what else doesn't
work but I'll probably find another distribution that uses KDE Plasma
because I would like to explore that desktop a little more. I'm not
impressed with Debian's limitations so I won't be keeping it.
A lot of Linux users have resigned themselves to the idea that it
doesn't matter which distribution you use, they're all the same in the
end. That's probably why even the advanced users are sticking to Mint.
Why anyone would increase the amount of headaches they have by
installing Debian is beyond me.
On 2026-03-18, RonB <ronb02NOSPAM@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2026-03-18, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 22:04:26 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would
take KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able >>>> to settle on anything for very long.
I follow Lunduke on X although I usually don't watch his videos. Today's >>> rant:
The GNOME Desktop Environment has made some truly bizarre moves over the >>> last few years.
Technical, marketing, and management. Just pure insanity.
- Restricting to only SystemD based systems.
- Restricting to only Wayland based systems.
- Hiring a “shaman” to be their Executive Director.
- Making an official “Mention Lunduke and you’re banned for life” policy.
- Harboring and defending registered sex offenders.
- Force installing Trans Pride propaganda and artwork on users computer. >>> - Attacking Jews, on their official website, as “leeches” and “baby >>> killers”.
- Official spokespersons defacing wiki pages of other projects with
“wrong” political views.
One horrific decision, and action, after another from the most widely used >>> Linux Desktop Environment.
I think the Linux Mint team is more interested in making a good distribution
then in promoting Woke crap. I know they use Gnome's libraries in Cinnamon, >> but Cinnamon is not Gnome.
But I am looking at KDE Plasma again. (Linux Mint also has Mate and Xfce.) >>
This is what I am running.
System:
Kernel: 6.17.0-19-generic arch: x86_64 bits: 64 compiler: gcc v: 13.3.0 clocksource: tsc
Desktop: Cinnamon v: 6.6.7 tk: GTK v: 3.24.41 wm: Muffin v: 6.6.3 vt: 7 dm: LightDM v: 1.30.0
Distro: Linux Mint 22.3 Zena base: Ubuntu 24.04 noble
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-18 4:04 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't >>>>>>> like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to >>>>>>> install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include >>>>>>> it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those >>>>>> with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize >>>>>> Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is >>>>>> plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM
and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take
KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to >>>>> settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of
what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in >>>> significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the >>>> people responsible for the breakage won't care.
I installed Debian 13 and used for a few hours last night. Found some things
that bothered me and I'm no longer enamored with Debian. For some reason, >>> when I do any kind of search in Google, the computer just sits there for >>> several seconds. I can count 1000-one, 1000-two... up to about ten seconds >>> sometimes. I have no idea why. I thought maybe it had something to do with >>> Firefox-ESR instead of regular Firefox, so I installed Firefox — which >>> turned out to be a real pain in the butt. For some reason Debian doesn't >>> want you to install Firefox, so they block it for "security" reasons.
Mozilla has a detailed work-around, but I don't like Debian being control >>> freaks. Then I tried to install the Microsoft core fonts, which I use in >>> Firefox. Nope, that was also a non-starter. I haven't figured out how to >>> bypass this yet. I found a .deb package (on Debian's own site) but it just >>> sits there when I try to install it. Also, when I input my name and password
when installing, it wouldn't let me use my normal short password. I HAD to >>> put in a long password to install it. (Easy to change after the
installation, but it still pissed me off.) I don't know what else doesn't >>> work but I'll probably find another distribution that uses KDE Plasma
because I would like to explore that desktop a little more. I'm not
impressed with Debian's limitations so I won't be keeping it.
A lot of Linux users have resigned themselves to the idea that it
doesn't matter which distribution you use, they're all the same in the
end. That's probably why even the advanced users are sticking to Mint.
Why anyone would increase the amount of headaches they have by
installing Debian is beyond me.
To me they don't work the same. Linux Mint (for me) just seems to be the
most stable and polished distribution I've used. I think too many distributions are too concerned with "eye candy" instead of a stable, clean desktop OS.
I'm going to find something else to put on the computer that currently has Debian 13 KDE. There's too much of the "we know better what you need than
you do" baked in. It rankles me.
On 2026-03-19 4:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-18 4:04 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't >>>>>>>> like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to >>>>>>>> install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include >>>>>>>> it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those
with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize >>>>>>> Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is >>>>>>> plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM
and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take
KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to >>>>>> settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of >>>>> what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in >>>>> significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the >>>>> people responsible for the breakage won't care.
I installed Debian 13 and used for a few hours last night. Found some things
that bothered me and I'm no longer enamored with Debian. For some reason, >>>> when I do any kind of search in Google, the computer just sits there for >>>> several seconds. I can count 1000-one, 1000-two... up to about ten seconds >>>> sometimes. I have no idea why. I thought maybe it had something to do with >>>> Firefox-ESR instead of regular Firefox, so I installed Firefox — which >>>> turned out to be a real pain in the butt. For some reason Debian doesn't >>>> want you to install Firefox, so they block it for "security" reasons.
Mozilla has a detailed work-around, but I don't like Debian being control >>>> freaks. Then I tried to install the Microsoft core fonts, which I use in >>>> Firefox. Nope, that was also a non-starter. I haven't figured out how to >>>> bypass this yet. I found a .deb package (on Debian's own site) but it just >>>> sits there when I try to install it. Also, when I input my name and password
when installing, it wouldn't let me use my normal short password. I HAD to >>>> put in a long password to install it. (Easy to change after the
installation, but it still pissed me off.) I don't know what else doesn't >>>> work but I'll probably find another distribution that uses KDE Plasma
because I would like to explore that desktop a little more. I'm not
impressed with Debian's limitations so I won't be keeping it.
A lot of Linux users have resigned themselves to the idea that it
doesn't matter which distribution you use, they're all the same in the
end. That's probably why even the advanced users are sticking to Mint.
Why anyone would increase the amount of headaches they have by
installing Debian is beyond me.
To me they don't work the same. Linux Mint (for me) just seems to be the
most stable and polished distribution I've used. I think too many
distributions are too concerned with "eye candy" instead of a stable, clean >> desktop OS.
Agreed. KDE gives that impression, but then it ends up working pretty
well. Nevertheless, it faces problems as a result of it using Wayland.
The fact that Mint has been more conservative with Cinnamon and stuck to
X results in it facing fewer issues.
I'm going to find something else to put on the computer that currently has >> Debian 13 KDE. There's too much of the "we know better what you need than
you do" baked in. It rankles me.
The open-source community in general gives me that feeling. If Linux
users themselves weren't so obnoxious and let the philosophy behind the system speak for itself, there is a good chance that more people would
be willing to give it a try.
On 2026-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-19 4:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-18 4:04 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't >>>>>>>>> like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to >>>>>>>>> install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include
it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those
with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize
Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is >>>>>>>> plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM
and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take
KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to >>>>>>> settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of >>>>>> what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in >>>>>> significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the >>>>>> people responsible for the breakage won't care.
I installed Debian 13 and used for a few hours last night. Found some things
that bothered me and I'm no longer enamored with Debian. For some reason, >>>>> when I do any kind of search in Google, the computer just sits there for >>>>> several seconds. I can count 1000-one, 1000-two... up to about ten seconds
sometimes. I have no idea why. I thought maybe it had something to do with
Firefox-ESR instead of regular Firefox, so I installed Firefox — which >>>>> turned out to be a real pain in the butt. For some reason Debian doesn't >>>>> want you to install Firefox, so they block it for "security" reasons. >>>>> Mozilla has a detailed work-around, but I don't like Debian being control >>>>> freaks. Then I tried to install the Microsoft core fonts, which I use in >>>>> Firefox. Nope, that was also a non-starter. I haven't figured out how to >>>>> bypass this yet. I found a .deb package (on Debian's own site) but it just
sits there when I try to install it. Also, when I input my name and password
when installing, it wouldn't let me use my normal short password. I HAD to
put in a long password to install it. (Easy to change after the
installation, but it still pissed me off.) I don't know what else doesn't >>>>> work but I'll probably find another distribution that uses KDE Plasma >>>>> because I would like to explore that desktop a little more. I'm not
impressed with Debian's limitations so I won't be keeping it.
A lot of Linux users have resigned themselves to the idea that it
doesn't matter which distribution you use, they're all the same in the >>>> end. That's probably why even the advanced users are sticking to Mint. >>>> Why anyone would increase the amount of headaches they have by
installing Debian is beyond me.
To me they don't work the same. Linux Mint (for me) just seems to be the >>> most stable and polished distribution I've used. I think too many
distributions are too concerned with "eye candy" instead of a stable, clean >>> desktop OS.
Agreed. KDE gives that impression, but then it ends up working pretty
well. Nevertheless, it faces problems as a result of it using Wayland.
The fact that Mint has been more conservative with Cinnamon and stuck to
X results in it facing fewer issues.
I'm going to find something else to put on the computer that currently has >>> Debian 13 KDE. There's too much of the "we know better what you need than >>> you do" baked in. It rankles me.
The open-source community in general gives me that feeling. If Linux
users themselves weren't so obnoxious and let the philosophy behind the
system speak for itself, there is a good chance that more people would
be willing to give it a try.
I never got that feeling with Linux Mint. I remember when Gnome 3 first came out, they kind of had the "we know what's better for you than you do" attitude.
It looks Debian has inherited that delusional superiority complex.
On 2026-03-20 1:07 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-19 4:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-18 4:04 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't
like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to
install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include
it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those
with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize
Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is >>>>>>>>> plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM
and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take
KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to >>>>>>>> settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of >>>>>>> what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in
significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the >>>>>>> people responsible for the breakage won't care.
I installed Debian 13 and used for a few hours last night. Found some things
that bothered me and I'm no longer enamored with Debian. For some reason,
when I do any kind of search in Google, the computer just sits there for >>>>>> several seconds. I can count 1000-one, 1000-two... up to about ten seconds
sometimes. I have no idea why. I thought maybe it had something to do with
Firefox-ESR instead of regular Firefox, so I installed Firefox — which >>>>>> turned out to be a real pain in the butt. For some reason Debian doesn't >>>>>> want you to install Firefox, so they block it for "security" reasons. >>>>>> Mozilla has a detailed work-around, but I don't like Debian being control
freaks. Then I tried to install the Microsoft core fonts, which I use in >>>>>> Firefox. Nope, that was also a non-starter. I haven't figured out how to >>>>>> bypass this yet. I found a .deb package (on Debian's own site) but it just
sits there when I try to install it. Also, when I input my name and password
when installing, it wouldn't let me use my normal short password. I HAD to
put in a long password to install it. (Easy to change after the
installation, but it still pissed me off.) I don't know what else doesn't
work but I'll probably find another distribution that uses KDE Plasma >>>>>> because I would like to explore that desktop a little more. I'm not >>>>>> impressed with Debian's limitations so I won't be keeping it.
A lot of Linux users have resigned themselves to the idea that it
doesn't matter which distribution you use, they're all the same in the >>>>> end. That's probably why even the advanced users are sticking to Mint. >>>>> Why anyone would increase the amount of headaches they have by
installing Debian is beyond me.
To me they don't work the same. Linux Mint (for me) just seems to be the >>>> most stable and polished distribution I've used. I think too many
distributions are too concerned with "eye candy" instead of a stable, clean
desktop OS.
Agreed. KDE gives that impression, but then it ends up working pretty
well. Nevertheless, it faces problems as a result of it using Wayland.
The fact that Mint has been more conservative with Cinnamon and stuck to >>> X results in it facing fewer issues.
I'm going to find something else to put on the computer that currently has >>>> Debian 13 KDE. There's too much of the "we know better what you need than >>>> you do" baked in. It rankles me.
The open-source community in general gives me that feeling. If Linux
users themselves weren't so obnoxious and let the philosophy behind the
system speak for itself, there is a good chance that more people would
be willing to give it a try.
I never got that feeling with Linux Mint. I remember when Gnome 3 first came >> out, they kind of had the "we know what's better for you than you do"
attitude.
I remember it. The hatred against Gnome 3 was so strong that I had no
choice but to try it out. Admittedly, it wasn't too good at first. It
didn't become bearable until Gnome 3.8 or so.
It looks Debian has inherited that delusional superiority complex.
That superiority complex is everywhere in the Linux community. We've all witnessed it over decades. Of course, Linux advocates are still a lot
more tolerable than the Apple zealots. Windows advocates, funny enough, aren't die-hard enthusiasts of their choice of operating system.
With Apple and Linux's advocates though, there is a great difference:
Apple zealots have a reason to be so loyal to their choice of hardware company as it has delivered some truly innovative and revolutionary
products throughout its existence; Linux advocates, in most cases, are
just delusional about how great the system is. It's a good alternative,
but it's definitely not on par with commercial choices.
On 2026-03-20, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-20 1:07 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-19 4:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-18 4:04 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't
like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to
install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include
it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those
with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize
Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is
plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM
and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take
KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to
settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of >>>>>>>> what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in
significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the
people responsible for the breakage won't care.
I installed Debian 13 and used for a few hours last night. Found some things
that bothered me and I'm no longer enamored with Debian. For some reason,
when I do any kind of search in Google, the computer just sits there for
several seconds. I can count 1000-one, 1000-two... up to about ten seconds
sometimes. I have no idea why. I thought maybe it had something to do with
Firefox-ESR instead of regular Firefox, so I installed Firefox — which
turned out to be a real pain in the butt. For some reason Debian doesn't
want you to install Firefox, so they block it for "security" reasons. >>>>>>> Mozilla has a detailed work-around, but I don't like Debian being control
freaks. Then I tried to install the Microsoft core fonts, which I use in
Firefox. Nope, that was also a non-starter. I haven't figured out how to
bypass this yet. I found a .deb package (on Debian's own site) but it just
sits there when I try to install it. Also, when I input my name and password
when installing, it wouldn't let me use my normal short password. I HAD to
put in a long password to install it. (Easy to change after the
installation, but it still pissed me off.) I don't know what else doesn't
work but I'll probably find another distribution that uses KDE Plasma >>>>>>> because I would like to explore that desktop a little more. I'm not >>>>>>> impressed with Debian's limitations so I won't be keeping it.
A lot of Linux users have resigned themselves to the idea that it
doesn't matter which distribution you use, they're all the same in the >>>>>> end. That's probably why even the advanced users are sticking to Mint. >>>>>> Why anyone would increase the amount of headaches they have by
installing Debian is beyond me.
To me they don't work the same. Linux Mint (for me) just seems to be the >>>>> most stable and polished distribution I've used. I think too many
distributions are too concerned with "eye candy" instead of a stable, clean
desktop OS.
Agreed. KDE gives that impression, but then it ends up working pretty
well. Nevertheless, it faces problems as a result of it using Wayland. >>>> The fact that Mint has been more conservative with Cinnamon and stuck to >>>> X results in it facing fewer issues.
I'm going to find something else to put on the computer that currently has
Debian 13 KDE. There's too much of the "we know better what you need than >>>>> you do" baked in. It rankles me.
The open-source community in general gives me that feeling. If Linux
users themselves weren't so obnoxious and let the philosophy behind the >>>> system speak for itself, there is a good chance that more people would >>>> be willing to give it a try.
I never got that feeling with Linux Mint. I remember when Gnome 3 first came
out, they kind of had the "we know what's better for you than you do"
attitude.
I remember it. The hatred against Gnome 3 was so strong that I had no
choice but to try it out. Admittedly, it wasn't too good at first. It
didn't become bearable until Gnome 3.8 or so.
I still don't think it's very good. It still needs extensions to make adjustments and do customizations. And these extensions are picky about when and where they'll work. At any rate, I moved away from the Gnome desktop a long time ago. I won't be going back.
It looks Debian has inherited that delusional superiority complex.
That superiority complex is everywhere in the Linux community. We've all
witnessed it over decades. Of course, Linux advocates are still a lot
more tolerable than the Apple zealots. Windows advocates, funny enough,
aren't die-hard enthusiasts of their choice of operating system.
I don't see much of it in the Linux Mint community. Maybe I don't go to the same websites you do. I do see some of this "exceptionalism" in the general (mostly Arch) Linux community, but it's easy to ignore and to (occasionally) counter. I chalk it up as "choice."
With Apple and Linux's advocates though, there is a great difference:
Apple zealots have a reason to be so loyal to their choice of hardware
company as it has delivered some truly innovative and revolutionary
products throughout its existence; Linux advocates, in most cases, are
just delusional about how great the system is. It's a good alternative,
but it's definitely not on par with commercial choices.
I'm not delusional about my Linux experience. It just works for me (and has done so for twenty years). This is called experience, not delusion. I like the freedom to customize.
As for Apple, I've tried to use their desktop. For me it just sucks. Zero customization. ("Want your windows controls on the right side?... Use Windows, you idiot, this is not the way we 'enlightened' do it.") Kind of cultish.
As for Windows, it's no longer primarily an OS, it's an advertising platform that tries to push AI crap into whatever you want to do with it. If you're into gaming or are married to MicroSlop Office or Adobe's expensive rental crap, (or actually like AI crap) it's there for you. (Not there for me, though.)
On 2026-03-20 10:15 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-20, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-20 1:07 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-19 4:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-18 4:04 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't
like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to
install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include
it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those
with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize
Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is
plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM
and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take
KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to
settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of >>>>>>>>> what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in
significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the
people responsible for the breakage won't care.
I installed Debian 13 and used for a few hours last night. Found some things
that bothered me and I'm no longer enamored with Debian. For some reason,
when I do any kind of search in Google, the computer just sits there for
several seconds. I can count 1000-one, 1000-two... up to about ten seconds
sometimes. I have no idea why. I thought maybe it had something to do with
Firefox-ESR instead of regular Firefox, so I installed Firefox — which
turned out to be a real pain in the butt. For some reason Debian doesn't
want you to install Firefox, so they block it for "security" reasons. >>>>>>>> Mozilla has a detailed work-around, but I don't like Debian being control
freaks. Then I tried to install the Microsoft core fonts, which I use in
Firefox. Nope, that was also a non-starter. I haven't figured out how to
bypass this yet. I found a .deb package (on Debian's own site) but it just
sits there when I try to install it. Also, when I input my name and password
when installing, it wouldn't let me use my normal short password. I HAD to
put in a long password to install it. (Easy to change after the >>>>>>>> installation, but it still pissed me off.) I don't know what else doesn't
work but I'll probably find another distribution that uses KDE Plasma >>>>>>>> because I would like to explore that desktop a little more. I'm not >>>>>>>> impressed with Debian's limitations so I won't be keeping it.
A lot of Linux users have resigned themselves to the idea that it >>>>>>> doesn't matter which distribution you use, they're all the same in the >>>>>>> end. That's probably why even the advanced users are sticking to Mint. >>>>>>> Why anyone would increase the amount of headaches they have by
installing Debian is beyond me.
To me they don't work the same. Linux Mint (for me) just seems to be the >>>>>> most stable and polished distribution I've used. I think too many
distributions are too concerned with "eye candy" instead of a stable, clean
desktop OS.
Agreed. KDE gives that impression, but then it ends up working pretty >>>>> well. Nevertheless, it faces problems as a result of it using Wayland. >>>>> The fact that Mint has been more conservative with Cinnamon and stuck to >>>>> X results in it facing fewer issues.
I'm going to find something else to put on the computer that currently has
Debian 13 KDE. There's too much of the "we know better what you need than
you do" baked in. It rankles me.
The open-source community in general gives me that feeling. If Linux >>>>> users themselves weren't so obnoxious and let the philosophy behind the >>>>> system speak for itself, there is a good chance that more people would >>>>> be willing to give it a try.
I never got that feeling with Linux Mint. I remember when Gnome 3 first came
out, they kind of had the "we know what's better for you than you do"
attitude.
I remember it. The hatred against Gnome 3 was so strong that I had no
choice but to try it out. Admittedly, it wasn't too good at first. It
didn't become bearable until Gnome 3.8 or so.
I still don't think it's very good. It still needs extensions to make
adjustments and do customizations. And these extensions are picky about when >> and where they'll work. At any rate, I moved away from the Gnome desktop a >> long time ago. I won't be going back.
Their wokeness is reason enough not to bother with them. Nevertheless,
the extensions system in Gnome 3 is remarkably annoying. The default
system doesn't usually do what anyone wants, so they have no choice but
to get extensions. Once they have them, it's great until Gnome 3.46
turns into 3.47 or so. When that happens, most of the extensions stop working, and you have to download them all over again. That's why Cosmic Desktop is so great: the functionality of the most popular extensions is built in.
It looks Debian has inherited that delusional superiority complex.
That superiority complex is everywhere in the Linux community. We've all >>> witnessed it over decades. Of course, Linux advocates are still a lot
more tolerable than the Apple zealots. Windows advocates, funny enough,
aren't die-hard enthusiasts of their choice of operating system.
I don't see much of it in the Linux Mint community. Maybe I don't go to the >> same websites you do. I do see some of this "exceptionalism" in the general >> (mostly Arch) Linux community, but it's easy to ignore and to (occasionally) >> counter. I chalk it up as "choice."
You'd have to go to the forums. However, my limited experience in the
Linux Mint forums is that the people there are level-headed and simply
want to use Linux because it provides them some benefits over what
they're used to, not because they think it's better. In every other
forum, it seems like the only people posting are Larry Pietraskiewicz clones.
With Apple and Linux's advocates though, there is a great difference:
Apple zealots have a reason to be so loyal to their choice of hardware
company as it has delivered some truly innovative and revolutionary
products throughout its existence; Linux advocates, in most cases, are
just delusional about how great the system is. It's a good alternative,
but it's definitely not on par with commercial choices.
I'm not delusional about my Linux experience. It just works for me (and has >> done so for twenty years). This is called experience, not delusion. I like >> the freedom to customize.
As for Apple, I've tried to use their desktop. For me it just sucks. Zero
customization. ("Want your windows controls on the right side?... Use
Windows, you idiot, this is not the way we 'enlightened' do it.") Kind of
cultish.
As for Windows, it's no longer primarily an OS, it's an advertising platform >> that tries to push AI crap into whatever you want to do with it. If you're >> into gaming or are married to MicroSlop Office or Adobe's expensive rental >> crap, (or actually like AI crap) it's there for you. (Not there for me,
though.)
You're a level-headed human being with basic needs who doesn't mind that your hardware is old. For you, it's perfect as it should be. My needs
are mostly basic too, but it seems that the fact that my hardware is
usually suited for gaming is a problem for Linux. Either it has trouble
with the powerful GPU, or it has trouble waking from sleep, or it has a problem with the extended functions like keys reserved for increasing
the illumination of the screen or the keyboard. It mostly works, but
there's always something. I don't hate Linux. I've been rooting for it
since it first emerged. However, my experience has been that it hates
_me_, and that has only gotten worse now with many of its developers treating my kind, Christian white men, as a parasite that needs to be eradicated.
On 2026-03-21, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-20 10:15 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-20, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-20 1:07 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-19, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-19 4:40 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:
On 2026-03-18 4:04 a.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-18, CrudeSausage <crude@sausa.ge> wrote:A lot of Linux users have resigned themselves to the idea that it >>>>>>>> doesn't matter which distribution you use, they're all the same in the >>>>>>>> end. That's probably why even the advanced users are sticking to Mint. >>>>>>>> Why anyone would increase the amount of headaches they have by >>>>>>>> installing Debian is beyond me.
On 2026-03-17 6:04 p.m., RonB wrote:
On 2026-03-17, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Mar 2026 05:55:51 -0000 (UTC), RonB wrote:
Zorin looks more like Windows, but it's based on Gnome (which I don't
like it.) For example, if I want to get of window tiling, you have to
install the "gnome extensions manager." Why couldn't they just include
it in the standard install?
https://zorin.com/os/pro/
For $48 you can pick your poison. I assume you could create any of those
with GNOME extensions if you knew what you were doing. I didn't realize
Ubuntu does some tweaking until I ran Leap 16 GNOME, which I think is
plain vanilla. I didn't try doing anything with it, just blew away the VM
and did the KDE install.
I like Cinnamon, but if I had to choose between Gnome or KDE, I would take
KDE. Gnome seems to be in constant flux. They don't seem to be able to
settle on anything for very long.
Mind you, that is true of Rust, of Wayland and of Gnome. It's part of
what frustrated me about using Linux. In many cases, the flux results in
significant improvements, but things _will_ break along the way and the
people responsible for the breakage won't care.
I installed Debian 13 and used for a few hours last night. Found some things
that bothered me and I'm no longer enamored with Debian. For some reason,
when I do any kind of search in Google, the computer just sits there for
several seconds. I can count 1000-one, 1000-two... up to about ten seconds
sometimes. I have no idea why. I thought maybe it had something to do with
Firefox-ESR instead of regular Firefox, so I installed Firefox — which
turned out to be a real pain in the butt. For some reason Debian doesn't
want you to install Firefox, so they block it for "security" reasons. >>>>>>>>> Mozilla has a detailed work-around, but I don't like Debian being control
freaks. Then I tried to install the Microsoft core fonts, which I use in
Firefox. Nope, that was also a non-starter. I haven't figured out how to
bypass this yet. I found a .deb package (on Debian's own site) but it just
sits there when I try to install it. Also, when I input my name and password
when installing, it wouldn't let me use my normal short password. I HAD to
put in a long password to install it. (Easy to change after the >>>>>>>>> installation, but it still pissed me off.) I don't know what else doesn't
work but I'll probably find another distribution that uses KDE Plasma >>>>>>>>> because I would like to explore that desktop a little more. I'm not >>>>>>>>> impressed with Debian's limitations so I won't be keeping it. >>>>>>>>
To me they don't work the same. Linux Mint (for me) just seems to be the
most stable and polished distribution I've used. I think too many >>>>>>> distributions are too concerned with "eye candy" instead of a stable, clean
desktop OS.
Agreed. KDE gives that impression, but then it ends up working pretty >>>>>> well. Nevertheless, it faces problems as a result of it using Wayland. >>>>>> The fact that Mint has been more conservative with Cinnamon and stuck to >>>>>> X results in it facing fewer issues.
I'm going to find something else to put on the computer that currently has
Debian 13 KDE. There's too much of the "we know better what you need than
you do" baked in. It rankles me.
The open-source community in general gives me that feeling. If Linux >>>>>> users themselves weren't so obnoxious and let the philosophy behind the >>>>>> system speak for itself, there is a good chance that more people would >>>>>> be willing to give it a try.
I never got that feeling with Linux Mint. I remember when Gnome 3 first came
out, they kind of had the "we know what's better for you than you do" >>>>> attitude.
I remember it. The hatred against Gnome 3 was so strong that I had no
choice but to try it out. Admittedly, it wasn't too good at first. It
didn't become bearable until Gnome 3.8 or so.
I still don't think it's very good. It still needs extensions to make
adjustments and do customizations. And these extensions are picky about when
and where they'll work. At any rate, I moved away from the Gnome desktop a >>> long time ago. I won't be going back.
Their wokeness is reason enough not to bother with them. Nevertheless,
the extensions system in Gnome 3 is remarkably annoying. The default
system doesn't usually do what anyone wants, so they have no choice but
to get extensions. Once they have them, it's great until Gnome 3.46
turns into 3.47 or so. When that happens, most of the extensions stop
working, and you have to download them all over again. That's why Cosmic
Desktop is so great: the functionality of the most popular extensions is
built in.
That's what I've run into (the few times I've tried Gnome 3). I'm always looking up "how do you change this?" — follow the link and find that particular extension, or no longer works with Gnome X.x. I really think the people who develop Gnome think everyone should use it EXACTLY as they use it. (Kind of the same mentality as you'll find with Mac OS.)
It looks Debian has inherited that delusional superiority complex.
That superiority complex is everywhere in the Linux community. We've all >>>> witnessed it over decades. Of course, Linux advocates are still a lot
more tolerable than the Apple zealots. Windows advocates, funny enough, >>>> aren't die-hard enthusiasts of their choice of operating system.
I don't see much of it in the Linux Mint community. Maybe I don't go to the >>> same websites you do. I do see some of this "exceptionalism" in the general >>> (mostly Arch) Linux community, but it's easy to ignore and to (occasionally)
counter. I chalk it up as "choice."
You'd have to go to the forums. However, my limited experience in the
Linux Mint forums is that the people there are level-headed and simply
want to use Linux because it provides them some benefits over what
they're used to, not because they think it's better. In every other
forum, it seems like the only people posting are Larry Pietraskiewicz
clones.
I've run into that also, especially on Reddit (I haven't gone to many Linux forums except for Linux Mint's forum).
With Apple and Linux's advocates though, there is a great difference:
Apple zealots have a reason to be so loyal to their choice of hardware >>>> company as it has delivered some truly innovative and revolutionary
products throughout its existence; Linux advocates, in most cases, are >>>> just delusional about how great the system is. It's a good alternative, >>>> but it's definitely not on par with commercial choices.
I'm not delusional about my Linux experience. It just works for me (and has >>> done so for twenty years). This is called experience, not delusion. I like >>> the freedom to customize.
As for Apple, I've tried to use their desktop. For me it just sucks. Zero >>> customization. ("Want your windows controls on the right side?... Use
Windows, you idiot, this is not the way we 'enlightened' do it.") Kind of >>> cultish.
As for Windows, it's no longer primarily an OS, it's an advertising platform
that tries to push AI crap into whatever you want to do with it. If you're >>> into gaming or are married to MicroSlop Office or Adobe's expensive rental >>> crap, (or actually like AI crap) it's there for you. (Not there for me,
though.)
You're a level-headed human being with basic needs who doesn't mind that
your hardware is old. For you, it's perfect as it should be. My needs
are mostly basic too, but it seems that the fact that my hardware is
usually suited for gaming is a problem for Linux. Either it has trouble
with the powerful GPU, or it has trouble waking from sleep, or it has a
problem with the extended functions like keys reserved for increasing
the illumination of the screen or the keyboard. It mostly works, but
there's always something. I don't hate Linux. I've been rooting for it
since it first emerged. However, my experience has been that it hates
_me_, and that has only gotten worse now with many of its developers
treating my kind, Christian white men, as a parasite that needs to be
eradicated.
I understand. This is why when people ask about gaming on Linux Mint, I just let it pass. I simply don't know anything about it. Some people tell me Linux Mint can run games, some say not so much. I see no reason to insert my complete ignorance of gaming into the discussion.
I still don't think it's very good. It still needs extensions to make
adjustments and do customizations. And these extensions are picky about when
and where they'll work. At any rate, I moved away from the Gnome desktop a >>> long time ago. I won't be going back.
Their wokeness is reason enough not to bother with them. Nevertheless,
the extensions system in Gnome 3 is remarkably annoying. The default
system doesn't usually do what anyone wants, so they have no choice but
to get extensions. Once they have them, it's great until Gnome 3.46
turns into 3.47 or so. When that happens, most of the extensions stop
working, and you have to download them all over again. That's why Cosmic
Desktop is so great: the functionality of the most popular extensions is
built in.
That's what I've run into (the few times I've tried Gnome 3). I'm always looking up "how do you change this?" — follow the link and find that particular extension, or no longer works with Gnome X.x. I really think the people who develop Gnome think everyone should use it EXACTLY as they use
it. (Kind of the same mentality as you'll find with Mac OS.)
It looks Debian has inherited that delusional superiority complex.
That superiority complex is everywhere in the Linux community. We've all >>>> witnessed it over decades. Of course, Linux advocates are still a lot
more tolerable than the Apple zealots. Windows advocates, funny enough, >>>> aren't die-hard enthusiasts of their choice of operating system.
I don't see much of it in the Linux Mint community. Maybe I don't go to the >>> same websites you do. I do see some of this "exceptionalism" in the general >>> (mostly Arch) Linux community, but it's easy to ignore and to (occasionally)
counter. I chalk it up as "choice."
You'd have to go to the forums. However, my limited experience in the
Linux Mint forums is that the people there are level-headed and simply
want to use Linux because it provides them some benefits over what
they're used to, not because they think it's better. In every other
forum, it seems like the only people posting are Larry Pietraskiewicz
clones.
I've run into that also, especially on Reddit (I haven't gone to many Linux forums except for Linux Mint's forum).
You're a level-headed human being with basic needs who doesn't mind that
your hardware is old. For you, it's perfect as it should be. My needs
are mostly basic too, but it seems that the fact that my hardware is
usually suited for gaming is a problem for Linux. Either it has trouble
with the powerful GPU, or it has trouble waking from sleep, or it has a
problem with the extended functions like keys reserved for increasing
the illumination of the screen or the keyboard. It mostly works, but
there's always something. I don't hate Linux. I've been rooting for it
since it first emerged. However, my experience has been that it hates
_me_, and that has only gotten worse now with many of its developers
treating my kind, Christian white men, as a parasite that needs to be
eradicated.
I understand. This is why when people ask about gaming on Linux Mint, I just let it pass. I simply don't know anything about it. Some people tell me
Linux Mint can run games, some say not so much. I see no reason to insert my complete ignorance of gaming into the discussion.
Reddit, in general, is a cesspool of left-wing cretins. If you deviate
even slightly from the Communist position, they'll downvote you to
oblivion and have you banned.
On 2026-03-22 2:06 a.m., RonB wrote:
< snipped for brevity >
I still don't think it's very good. It still needs extensions to make
adjustments and do customizations. And these extensions are picky about when
and where they'll work. At any rate, I moved away from the Gnome desktop a >>>> long time ago. I won't be going back.
Their wokeness is reason enough not to bother with them. Nevertheless,
the extensions system in Gnome 3 is remarkably annoying. The default
system doesn't usually do what anyone wants, so they have no choice but
to get extensions. Once they have them, it's great until Gnome 3.46
turns into 3.47 or so. When that happens, most of the extensions stop
working, and you have to download them all over again. That's why Cosmic >>> Desktop is so great: the functionality of the most popular extensions is >>> built in.
That's what I've run into (the few times I've tried Gnome 3). I'm always
looking up "how do you change this?" — follow the link and find that
particular extension, or no longer works with Gnome X.x. I really think the >> people who develop Gnome think everyone should use it EXACTLY as they use
it. (Kind of the same mentality as you'll find with Mac OS.)
Mac is actually worse. I find it ridiculous that you need to go through
the App Store to install a lot of things but that the same place will
tell you that it can't install your app because your version of MacOS is
too old. Apple zealots will lie to you and say that the Store will
merely offer you an older version, but nothing in the settings allows
for that. The message Apple sends you is to never reinstall your
operating system because if you do, there is a high probability that you won't be able to reinstall the software you used. With Gnome, people
can't really complain because the software is free as are the updates.
It looks Debian has inherited that delusional superiority complex.
That superiority complex is everywhere in the Linux community. We've all >>>>> witnessed it over decades. Of course, Linux advocates are still a lot >>>>> more tolerable than the Apple zealots. Windows advocates, funny enough, >>>>> aren't die-hard enthusiasts of their choice of operating system.
I don't see much of it in the Linux Mint community. Maybe I don't go to the
same websites you do. I do see some of this "exceptionalism" in the general
(mostly Arch) Linux community, but it's easy to ignore and to (occasionally)
counter. I chalk it up as "choice."
You'd have to go to the forums. However, my limited experience in the
Linux Mint forums is that the people there are level-headed and simply
want to use Linux because it provides them some benefits over what
they're used to, not because they think it's better. In every other
forum, it seems like the only people posting are Larry Pietraskiewicz
clones.
I've run into that also, especially on Reddit (I haven't gone to many Linux >> forums except for Linux Mint's forum).
Reddit, in general, is a cesspool of left-wing cretins. If you deviate
even slightly from the Communist position, they'll downvote you to
oblivion and have you banned. Before then, you'll get messages asking
you to reconsider suicide because with the left, they either want you to kill yourself or they joke about you wanting to do it. Obviously,
someone dying is a joking matter to them, as it was with Charlie Kirk
and the attempt on Trump's life. However, if sex traffickers and
murderers are in your country illegally, you have to feel sorry for them
and preserve their lives at all costs.
You're a level-headed human being with basic needs who doesn't mind that >>> your hardware is old. For you, it's perfect as it should be. My needs
are mostly basic too, but it seems that the fact that my hardware is
usually suited for gaming is a problem for Linux. Either it has trouble
with the powerful GPU, or it has trouble waking from sleep, or it has a
problem with the extended functions like keys reserved for increasing
the illumination of the screen or the keyboard. It mostly works, but
there's always something. I don't hate Linux. I've been rooting for it
since it first emerged. However, my experience has been that it hates
_me_, and that has only gotten worse now with many of its developers
treating my kind, Christian white men, as a parasite that needs to be
eradicated.
I understand. This is why when people ask about gaming on Linux Mint, I just >> let it pass. I simply don't know anything about it. Some people tell me
Linux Mint can run games, some say not so much. I see no reason to insert my >> complete ignorance of gaming into the discussion.
I just brought it up because it seems to be the source of most of my problems.
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