From Newsgroup: comp.lang.tcl


Hi,

I guess that the Tcl Core Team has not enough ressources to port Tcl/Tk to Wayland,
but as I see "Wayland" being ported on some Linux distribution, I was wondering
if it has a chance to be ported on the whole Linux family ?
I am developping a large application on Windows, and could port it to Linux, but can be a bite in the dust, if X11 disappeared from Linux.
On wayland.freedesktop.org, it is written : "Wayland is a replacement for the X11
window system protocol and architecture with the aim to be easier
to develop, extend, and maintain."
But from what I saw on the web, it is not a system for the casual user. Security
is at such a level, that it seems more suited for specialed or high professional use ?

Olivier.
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.tcl

Am 16.01.2026 um 15:45 schrieb Olivier:

Hi,

I guess that the Tcl Core Team has not enough ressources to port Tcl/Tk to Wayland,
but as I see "Wayland" being ported on some Linux distribution, I was wondering
if it has a chance to be ported on the whole Linux family ?
I am developping a large application on Windows, and could port it to Linux, but can be a bite in the dust, if X11 disappeared from Linux.
On wayland.freedesktop.org, it is written : "Wayland is a replacement for the X11
window system protocol and architecture with the aim to be easier
to develop, extend, and maintain."
But from what I saw on the web, it is not a system for the casual user. Security
is at such a level, that it seems more suited for specialed or high professional use ?

Olivier.

- X11 applications run on Wayland desktops
- Tk Wayland exists at androwish.org, but nobody on my radar ever tested it.

Harald
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.tcl


Harald Oehlmann <wortkarg3@yahoo.com> posted:

Am 16.01.2026 um 15:45 schrieb Olivier:

Hi,

I guess that the Tcl Core Team has not enough ressources to port Tcl/Tk to Wayland,
but as I see "Wayland" being ported on some Linux distribution, I was wondering

is at such a level, that it seems more suited for specialed or high professional use ?

Olivier.

- X11 applications run on Wayland desktops
- Tk Wayland exists at androwish.org, but nobody on my radar ever tested it.

Harald

Thanks Harald you for answering. But, the level of security is not the same as for X11,
there will probably limitations somewhere. But if it runs on it, there is room for improvement. Let's wait and see ...

Olivier.
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.tcl

Am 16.01.2026 um 17:45 schrieb Olivier:

Harald Oehlmann <wortkarg3@yahoo.com> posted:

Am 16.01.2026 um 15:45 schrieb Olivier:

Hi,

I guess that the Tcl Core Team has not enough ressources to port Tcl/Tk to Wayland,
but as I see "Wayland" being ported on some Linux distribution, I was wondering

is at such a level, that it seems more suited for specialed or high professional use ?

Olivier.

- X11 applications run on Wayland desktops
- Tk Wayland exists at androwish.org, but nobody on my radar ever tested it. >>
Harald

Thanks Harald you for answering. But, the level of security is not the same as for X11,
there will probably limitations somewhere. But if it runs on it, there is room
for improvement. Let's wait and see ...

Olivier.

Yes. The implementation is many years old. Since then, we "wait and
see"... Aparently, on Wayland, Windows decoration is an application
task. In consequence, the whole code to paint windows title bars etc is required. The current Wayland implementation does not provide this and
thus only works in full screen.

Harald
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.tcl

On 16/01/2026 16:54, Harald Oehlmann wrote:

Am 16.01.2026 um 17:45 schrieb Olivier:

Harald Oehlmann <wortkarg3@yahoo.com> posted:

Am 16.01.2026 um 15:45 schrieb Olivier:

Hi,

I guess that the Tcl Core Team has not enough ressources to port
Tcl/Tk to Wayland,
but as I see "Wayland" being ported on some Linux distribution, I
was wondering

is at such a level, that it seems more suited for specialed or high
professional use ?

Olivier.

- X11 applications run on Wayland desktops
- Tk Wayland exists at androwish.org, but nobody on my radar ever
tested it.

Harald

Thanks Harald you for answering. But, the level of security is not the
same as for X11,
there will probably limitations somewhere. But if it runs on it, there
is room
for improvement. Let's wait and see ...

Olivier.

Yes. The implementation is many years old. Since then, we "wait and
see"... Aparently, on Wayland, Windows decoration is an application
task.

Yikes, that's dramatically insecure!

The decorations must be characteristic of the /user's/ expectations
across all applications /regardless/ of the application authors. All
else is insecure because the user cannot otherwise control the usage of screen-real-estate. That security principle was added to the X window
system a very very long time ago (before I started using Linux) due to
the problems of relying on the applications to provide the user with
control and labelling features. It is *extremely* well known and has
been for well over 30 years, maybe 40. Application's get the privilege
only by revokable negotiation with the user's decoration agent (the
"window manager"). Whether an application can become the window manager
at any time is another matter, however, not conventionally solved.


wayland and systemd are obviously strategies to make Linux(TM) programs
get ported to MS(TM) Windows(TM).

one of wayland's stated selling points is that it's easier to implement
drawing primitives ... and then they said you have to implement opengl
to do it! lol. Watch as they pretend to eventually notice and pretend
that it's hard to notice and that no-one could have known and then
switch to MS(TM) DirectDraw(TM).

It's one of those developer ecosystems that are filled with tricks and deceptions and the manner of the participants are off-putting in the characteristic way of such ecosystems. ecosystems filled with honesty
are off-putting in a very different characteristic way.
--
Tristan Wibberley

The message body is Copyright (C) 2026 Tristan Wibberley except
citations and quotations noted. All Rights Reserved except that you may,
of course, cite it academically giving credit to me, distribute it
verbatim as part of a usenet system or its archives, and use it to
promote my greatness and general superiority without misrepresentation
of my opinions other than my opinion of my greatness and general
superiority which you _may_ misrepresent. You definitely MAY NOT train
any production AI system with it but you may train experimental AI that
will only be used for evaluation of the AI methods it implements.

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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.tcl

On 1/16/26 16:16, Harald Oehlmann wrote:

Am 16.01.2026 um 15:45 schrieb Olivier:

Hi,

I guess that the Tcl Core Team has not enough ressources to port
Tcl/Tk to Wayland,
but as I see "Wayland" being ported on some Linux distribution, I was
wondering
if it has a chance to be ported on the whole Linux family ?
I am developping a large application on Windows, and could port it to
Linux,
but can be a bite in the dust, if X11 disappeared from Linux.
On wayland.freedesktop.org, it is written : "Wayland is a replacement
for the X11
window system protocol and architecture with the aim to be easier
to develop, extend, and maintain."
But from what I saw on the web, it is not a system for the casual
user. Security
is at such a level, that it seems more suited for specialed or high
professional use ?

Olivier.

- X11 applications run on Wayland desktops
- Tk Wayland exists at androwish.org, but nobody on my radar ever tested
it.

(Spoiler alert, AndroWish inventor and maintainer here):

I wouldn't go as far as Harald and call it Tk Wayland, it is
undroidwish which is more or less (as the name implies) an
AndroWish without Android. So you will get a single (optionally
full screen) window in which Tk renders its emulated (X11)
windows using SDL2/OpenGL/AGG/freetype infrastructure by
somehow emulating its own in-process X server. BTW, with some
bonus points such as full SDL2 input device support (touchscreen,
joystick) and multi-threading support based on Tcl (i.e. each
Tcl thread runs its own Tk instance on the same single big
Wayland window).

All this stuff is now more than 9 years available for Wayland on Linux
(among other platforms including X11 and Windows) and as Harald
correctly stated, not very much adopted and in practical use.

Fortunately, I'm still not frustrated enough so it gets development
efforts once in a while.

BR,
Christian
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.tcl

Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> wrote:

On 16/01/2026 16:54, Harald Oehlmann wrote:

Am 16.01.2026 um 17:45 schrieb Olivier:

Harald Oehlmann <wortkarg3@yahoo.com> posted:

Am 16.01.2026 um 15:45 schrieb Olivier:

Hi,

I guess that the Tcl Core Team has not enough ressources to port
Tcl/Tk to Wayland,
but as I see "Wayland" being ported on some Linux distribution, I
was wondering

is at such a level, that it seems more suited for specialed or high
professional use ?

Olivier.

- X11 applications run on Wayland desktops
- Tk Wayland exists at androwish.org, but nobody on my radar ever
tested it.

Harald

Thanks Harald you for answering. But, the level of security is not the
same as for X11,
there will probably limitations somewhere. But if it runs on it, there
is room
for improvement. Let's wait and see ...

Olivier.

Yes. The implementation is many years old. Since then, we "wait and
see"... Aparently, on Wayland, Windows decoration is an application
task.

Yikes, that's dramatically insecure!

The decorations must be characteristic of the /user's/ expectations
across all applications /regardless/ of the application authors. All
else is insecure because the user cannot otherwise control the usage
of screen-real-estate. That security principle was added to the X
window system a very very long time ago (before I started using
Linux) due to the problems of relying on the applications to provide
the user with control and labelling features. It is *extremely* well
known and has been for well over 30 years, maybe 40. Application's
get the privilege only by revokable negotiation with the user's
decoration agent (the "window manager"). Whether an application can
become the window manager at any time is another matter, however, not conventionally solved.

wayland and systemd are obviously strategies to make Linux(TM) programs
get ported to MS(TM) Windows(TM).

The chief "Einstein" /s behind systemd is also part of the same
cargo-cult developer set that is bringing us wayland. Go check where
he is now employed full time...


Spoiler: He left RedHat for Microsoft and now works for Microsoft.


So yes, there's much suspision as to his (and their) actual real
motives.
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From Newsgroup: comp.lang.tcl

On 1/16/26 9:45 AM, Olivier wrote:

I guess that the Tcl Core Team has not enough ressources to port Tcl/Tk to Wayland,
but as I see "Wayland" being ported on some Linux distribution, I was wondering
if it has a chance to be ported on the whole Linux family ?

Someone will have to step up and take on the work to do so. To date, no
one has. My guess is that the Tcl/Tk core team believes X11 despite its
age and imperfections still works well enough, XWayland provides a
bridge, and there is no clear-cut case to abandon X for Wayland.

Based on what I have seen, Tk would lose a great deal with a native
Wayland port - no clipboard support, no system tray support, just to
name a couple. Why *should* Tk move away from X? Arguments that "Wayland
is the future" are not very compelling.


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