From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

One of the main things I have noticed when using languages other than
COBOL is that the tools are (generally) much better.

Although both Micro Focus and Fujitsu provide Visual studio (or Eclipse)
with their CIL generating compilers, the older native code generating compilers are stuck with a kludgy IDE or nothing at all.

It is many years since I worked with mainframes but I remember SPUFI and
I hope things have moved on from that... :-)

Once you get round the initial learning curve with Visual Studio the capabilities of this amazing tool are quite staggering.

Microsoft released the code to Open Source some time ago and since then
a number of new "Editor" versions for various languages have appeared
for free download.

There is a product called "Visual Studio Code" which is an advanced
editor for a number of languages, including COBOL.

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=bitlang.cobol

(Notice that it claims to be a "source colorizer" for COBOL. The actual
themes provided are really excellent and you can make your COBOL easy to
look at and very smart and modern in the choice of colors...)

I downloaded and installed it just to try it and found the results were "mixed".

It provides Intellisense for COBOL (which means it autotypes reserved
words - type "per" for instance and it will write "perform" for you) and
it has something called a "minimap" which provides a map of your code in
the right hand margin. I turned this off through the settings and it
left me with a thin line which shows every reference to a procedure or dataname with a mark in this narrow column. It is really useful and I
like it even better than the bookmarks I normally use with VS. You can
put the cursor on a dataname in the code and it will indicate where it
is defined and everywhere it is used, instantly. Click on any of these
and you are there; without losing your "place". Similarly, if you place
the cursor on a referenced procedure name, it will show you where it is defined and all references to it, instantly.

For people who have moved to .Net WinForms and are using COBOL as the
language for their code-behinds, it is important to have a good COBOL
editor. Depending on the compiler you are using, there will be an
offering from the vendor but you may not like their IDE and/or if you
are planning on moving to GnuCOBOL, for instance, you might prefer to
keep your options open.

Using an independent editor (especially if it is designed for COBOL or
has a COBOL extension) can be a good choice.

I like PSPad and have been using it for some years now for editing COBOL code-behinds, but it means using a different editor for COBOL and C#
(for which I use VS).

The advent of Visual Studio Code (VSC) means I could use the VSC editor
for COBOL and VS for C# and the interface and facilities would be very
similar for both C# and COBOL. (I could even share the same colour
scheme...)

Sadly, there was ONE thing about VSC which has, so far, kept me on PSPad...

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

If anyone tries the VSC COBOL Editor and discerns how to do this, please
post here.

Pete.
--
I used to write COBOL; now I can do anything...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, pete dashwood wrote:

[snip]

Sadly, there was ONE thing about VSC which has, so far, kept me on PSPad...

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

There is no way except through an extension. And you are not the only
one wanting this capability.

< https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50479269/visual-studio-code-cobol >

and

< https://stackoverflow.com/questions/45249594/setting-cobol-tabs-indents-in-visual-studio-code >
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 28/05/2018 12:46 PM, Rick Smith wrote:

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, pete dashwood wrote:

[snip]

Sadly, there was ONE thing about VSC which has, so far, kept me on PSPad... >>
I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

There is no way except through an extension. And you are not the only
one wanting this capability.

< https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50479269/visual-studio-code-cobol >

and

< https://stackoverflow.com/questions/45249594/setting-cobol-tabs-indents-in-visual-studio-code >

Hi Rick,

Thanks for confirming this. I figured I probably just missed something.

BTW, a "morepork" is a native NZ owl... :-)

Pete.
--
I used to write COBOL; now I can do anything...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

If anyone tries the VSC COBOL Editor and discerns how to do this, please post here.

Pete,

I downloaded and installed the OpenCobolIDE. It's very modern and elegant looking code editor, and it sets the TAB stops to the COBOL standard. It
starts at position 8 (shift-tab) and increment to the 72, 80 position.


--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, pete dashwood wrote:

[snip]

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

I am curious, why 72, since 72 is the last column of AREA B?

Why not 73?
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 5/28/2018 2:24 PM, Rick Smith wrote:

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, pete dashwood wrote:

[snip]

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

I am curious, why 72, since 72 is the last column of AREA B?

Why not 73?

Rounding. It is always rounding... :)

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

Rick Smith <rs847925@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, pete dashwood wrote:

[snip]

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

I am curious, why 72, since 72 is the last column of AREA B?

Why not 73?

We used cols 73-80 as an ID marker. It would tag
the line as 'changed by user id' or some other
kind of identification (date). You could program
punch card machines to automatically put the same
value in specific places on the card, 73-80 was
set for that purpose. And later on some screen
editors could do the same thing.

--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 28/05/2018 9:56 PM, Kellie Fitton wrote:

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

If anyone tries the VSC COBOL Editor and discerns how to do this, please
post here.

Pete,

I downloaded and installed the OpenCobolIDE. It's very modern and elegant looking code editor, and it sets the TAB stops to the COBOL standard. It starts at position 8 (shift-tab) and increment to the 72, 80 position.

Thanks Kellie.

There are many good editors available and some of them are very good for COBOL. PSPad is free and really very good; it has served me well for
around 10 years now when needing to edit COBOL on machines that don't
have a compiler installed on them. (I run COBOL on a single "COBOL
server" and access it remotely across my LAN. For Fujitsu NetCOBOL and PowerCOBOL (running the native code compilers for Windows) this is a
Virtual Machine running XP... these compilers seem to like that OS.

I really would like to use VSC for the reasons I outlined (similar to VS interfacing, great themes that would match my C# VS configuration, Intellisense and code mapping.)

I haven't given up on it yet and had some encouraging mail this morning
from someone who is an old time COBOLler and a VERY skilled programmer.
We may yet see tab stops in VSC COBOL.

Pete.
--
I used to write COBOL; now I can do anything...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 29/05/2018 6:24 AM, Rick Smith wrote:

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, pete dashwood wrote:

[snip]

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

I am curious, why 72, since 72 is the last column of AREA B?

Why not 73?

The VSC "rulers" (almost transparent vertical lines) would need to be
one position less than where you actually want it to tab. So, you would
set a ruler in position 6 and when you tab to it, you would be
positioned on column 7 (with the ruler "at your back")...

But the real reason I wrote 72 instead of 73 is because my eyes are not
what they used to be and I find myself making more frequent typos than
was previously the case... :-)

Of course, the VSC COBOL editor should be able to set tab stops anywhere
you want, and we may yet see that happen. (see response to Kellie...)

Pete.
--
I used to write COBOL; now I can do anything...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 29/05/2018 8:24 AM, John McCue wrote:

Rick Smith <rs847925@gmail.com> wrote:

On Sunday, May 27, 2018 at 7:58:29 PM UTC-4, pete dashwood wrote:

[snip]

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

I am curious, why 72, since 72 is the last column of AREA B?

Why not 73?

We used cols 73-80 as an ID marker. It would tag
the line as 'changed by user id' or some other
kind of identification (date). You could program
punch card machines to automatically put the same
value in specific places on the card, 73-80 was
set for that purpose. And later on some screen
editors could do the same thing.

That's right, John.

I remember those days very well and watching in wonder the amazing dance
of the punchgirl's fingers across a keyboard... :-)

However, these days (and since the last decade of the previous century)
I've been using "free format" COBOL where lines can exceed 80 columns.

Putting a ruler on 72 would just be a "reminder" that it might be time
to break an inline comment, or split a construct to a new line.

Pete.
--
I used to write COBOL; now I can do anything...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

I am curious, why 72, since 72 is the last column of AREA B?

Why not 73?

OpenCobolIDE is set to free format by default, and the TAB increment
is set to advance 4 positions, hence 68, 72, 76, 80 and 84...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

So, there is no Eclipse COBOL extension?
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 30/05/2018 5:17 AM, Doc Trins O'Grace wrote:

So, there is no Eclipse COBOL extension?

Both Micro Focus and Fujitsu provide Eclipse for COBOL as an IDE, but
they are not free and come with a compiler product.

You may find the following comments interesting:

https://www.eclipse.org/forums/index.php/t/149256/

The above is from 2006 and the OP asks (in French) how to install the
COBOL extension for Eclipse...


With the advent of GnuCOBOL, there is a revival of interest in Eclipse
as an editor/IDE.

Take a look here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/coplug/

I haven't used Eclipse with or without COBOL because I use the provided
IDEs for COBOL and I use VS for C#. (VS is, in my opinion, a superb development tool and that's why I would like to use it for COBOL as
well, and thus was interested when I saw a COBOL extension for it, in
the form of Visual Studio Code (VSC).)

Over the last few days I have persevered with VSC COBOL as an editor and
it is really very good; certainly way better for editing COBOL than the Fujitsu-provided NetCOBOL for Windows Project manager/IDE, BUT, it
really needs the COBOL tabstop facility.


If the tabstop problem described previously gets resolved, I will
certainly use Visual Studio Code with the COBOL extension as my default
COBOL Editor.

If you try Eclipse with COBOL please post your experience here and let
us know.

Pete.
--
I used to write COBOL; now I can do anything...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 29/05/2018 11:37 AM, Kellie Fitton wrote:

I am curious, why 72, since 72 is the last column of AREA B?

Why not 73?

OpenCobolIDE is set to free format by default, and the TAB increment
is set to advance 4 positions, hence 68, 72, 76, 80 and 84...

That is exactly the same problem as with VS COBOL. The normal COBOL
"areas" are not necessarily on a "4" boundary, and I could find no way
to change it.

Fortunately, as I mentioned elsewhere in the thread, a very capable Old
Time COBOL guy (Stephen Gennard, Micro Focus) has stepped in and done a blinding job of fixing this.

I have moved to VS COBOL now for all COBOL source that is "Project independent"...

Pete.
--
I used to write COBOL; now I can do anything...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114

From Newsgroup: comp.lang.cobol

On 28/05/2018 11:58 AM, pete dashwood wrote:

One of the main things I have noticed when using languages other than
COBOL is that the tools are (generally) much better.

Although both Micro Focus and Fujitsu provide Visual studio (or Eclipse) with their CIL generating compilers, the older native code generating compilers are stuck with a kludgy IDE or nothing at all.

It is many years since I worked with mainframes but I remember SPUFI and
I hope things have moved on from that... :-)

Once you get round the initial learning curve with Visual Studio the capabilities of this amazing tool are quite staggering.

Microsoft released the code to Open Source some time ago and since then
a number of new "Editor" versions for various languages have appeared
for free download.

There is a product called "Visual Studio Code" which is an advanced
editor for a number of languages, including COBOL.

https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=bitlang.cobol

(Notice that it claims to be a "source colorizer" for COBOL. The actual themes provided are really excellent and you can make your COBOL easy to look at and very smart and modern in the choice of colors...)

I downloaded and installed it just to try it and found the results were "mixed".

It provides Intellisense for COBOL (which means it autotypes reserved
words - type "per" for instance and it will write "perform" for you) and
it has something called a "minimap" which provides a map of your code in
the right hand margin. I turned this off through the settings and it
left me with a thin line which shows every reference to a procedure or dataname with a mark in this narrow column. It is really useful and I
like it even better than the bookmarks I normally use with VS. You can
put the cursor on a dataname in the code and it will indicate where it
is defined and everywhere it is used, instantly. Click on any of these
and you are there; without losing your "place". Similarly, if you place
the cursor on a referenced procedure name, it will show you where it is defined and all references to it, instantly.

For people who have moved to .Net WinForms and are using COBOL as the language for their code-behinds, it is important to have a good COBOL editor. Depending on the compiler you are using, there will be an
offering from the vendor but you may not like their IDE and/or if you
are planning on moving to GnuCOBOL, for instance, you might prefer to
keep your options open.

Using an independent editor (especially if it is designed for COBOL or
has a COBOL extension) can be a good choice.

I like PSPad and have been using it for some years now for editing COBOL code-behinds, but it means using a different editor for COBOL and C#
(for which I use VS).

The advent of Visual Studio Code (VSC) means I could use the VSC editor
for COBOL and VS for C# and the interface and facilities would be very similar for both C# and COBOL. (I could even share the same colour scheme...)

Sadly, there was ONE thing about VSC which has, so far, kept me on PSPad...

I cannot find a simple easy way to set tab stops as would be standard
for COBOL: 7,8,12,72

If anyone tries the VSC COBOL Editor and discerns how to do this, please post here.

Pete.

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

I'm pleased to report that this problem has been solved and VS COBOL now accepts any tabs you want to set.

It comes with the default settings of 0,7,12,73 but I have successfully
tested setting further indentations and requesting rulers (faint
vertical lines like boundaries) on those settings.

It is really an excellent job and I am so impressed I have moved to
using it, particularly for COBOL code-behinds used to drive Win Forms
screens.

Full kudos and heartfelt thanks to Stephen Gennard of Micro Focus, who
did this freely in his own time.

Pete.
--
I used to write COBOL; now I can do anything...
--- Synchronet 3.20a-Linux NewsLink 1.114