• Re: Undecidability based on epistemological antinomies V2 --correctreasoning--

    From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to comp.theory,sci.logic,sci.math,comp.ai.philosophy on Sun May 24 17:26:47 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 5/23/2026 5:41 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 04/24/2024 06:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/24/2024 8:07 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 04/24/2024 01:41 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/24/2024 1:58 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 04/24/2024 11:10 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/24/2024 12:34 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 04/24/2024 08:57 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/24/2024 10:07 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 04/23/2024 11:59 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/23/2024 12:55 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 04/23/2024 09:24 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/22/2024 6:29 AM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 4/22/24 12:18 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/21/2024 9:02 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 4/21/24 8:53 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/21/2024 6:52 PM, Richard Damon wrote:
    On 4/21/24 5:38 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/21/2024 4:19 PM, Richard Damon wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/24 3:34 PM, olcott wrote:
    On 4/21/2024 1:42 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/21/2024 10:41 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2024 10:53 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/21/2024 08:16 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/21/2024 9:17 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/20/2024 10:47 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2024 10:39 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/20/2024 02:05 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/20/2024 3:07 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/19/2024 02:36 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/19/2024 4:04 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 04/19/2024 11:23 AM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/19/2024 11:51 AM, Ross Finlayson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On 04/17/2024 10:57 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 4/17/2024 9:34 PM, olcott wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "...14 Every epistemological antinomy can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> likewise be used >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a
    similar
    undecidability proof..." (Gödel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 1931:43-44) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    is literally true whether or not Gödel >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meant it
    literally. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since it
    <is>
    literally true I am sure that he did >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean it
    literally. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    *Parphrased as* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Every expression X that cannot >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> possibly be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true
    or false >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proves
    that
    the
    formal system F cannot correctly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> determine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> whether X is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true or
    false.
    Which shows that X is undecidable in F. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    It is easy to understand that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-contradictory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mean
    unprovable and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> irrefutable, thus meeting the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Incomplete(F). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Which shows that F is incomplete, even >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> though X >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cannot
    possibly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> be a
    proposition in F because propositions >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must be
    true or false. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    A proposition is a central concept in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    philosophy of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> language, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantics, logic, and related fields, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often
    characterized as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    primary
    bearer of truth or falsity. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Proposition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


    Most common-sense types have "the truth is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    truth is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth"
    then
    as with regards to logical positivism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and a
    sensitive,
    thorough,
    comprehensive, reasoned account of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rationality
    and
    the
    fundamental
    objects of the logical theory, makes for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again a
    stonger
    logical
    positivism, reinvigorated with a minimal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "silver
    thread" to a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> metaphysics, all quite logicist and all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quite
    positivist, while >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> again structuralist and formalist, "the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> truth is
    the truth
    is the
    truth".

    Plainly, modeling bodies of knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is at
    least
    two things,
    one is a formal logical model, and another >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a
    scientific
    model,
    as with regards to expectations, a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statistical
    model.

    For all the things to be in one >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modality, is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that,
    as a
    model of
    belief, is that belief is formally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unreliable,
    while at the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> same
    time, reasoned and rational as for its own >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inner
    consistency
    and
    inter-consistency, all the other models in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    entire modal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universe,
    temporal.


    Axioms are stipulations, they're >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assumptions, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there are
    some
    very well-reasoned ones, and those what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> follow
    the
    reflections on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relation, in matters of definition of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> structural
    relation, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the first-class typing, of these things. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    In epistemology (theory of knowledge), a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> self-evident
    proposition is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a proposition that is known to be true by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understanding its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning
    without proof
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-evidence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    In the case of the correct model of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actual
    world
    stipulations
    are not assumptions. In this case >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stipulations
    are the
    assignment of
    semantic meaning to otherwise totally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningless
    finite
    strings.

    We do not merely assume that a "dead rat" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is not
    any type of
    "fifteen story office building" we know >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it
    is a
    self-evident
    truth.

    Expressions of language that are stipulated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to be
    true for the
    sole purpose of providing semantic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning to
    otherwise totally >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaningless finite strings provide the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ultimate
    foundation of
    every
    expression that are true on the basis of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its
    meaning.

    The only other element required to define >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    entire body of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {expressions of language that are true on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    basis
    of their
    meaning}
    is applying truth preserving operations to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stipulated truths. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The axiomless, really does make for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> richer
    accoutrement, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after metaphysics and the canon, why the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> objects
    of reason
    and rationality, "arise" from axiomless >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deduction,
    naturally.

    Then, our axiomatics and theory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "attain" to
    this,
    the truth,
    of what is, "A Theory", at all. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    One good theory.  (Modeling all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> individuals and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contingencies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and their models of belief as part of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world of
    theory.)

    One good theory, "A Theory: at all", we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are in
    it.


    A catalog and schema and dictionary and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    finite
    is only
    that,
    though.

    "Bigger:  not always worse." >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




    "Understanding" doesn't mean much here >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> except lack thereof, and hypocrisy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    We only have "true axioms" because in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all their applications they've held up. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They "withstand", and, "overstand". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


    We cannot really understand the notion of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true on
    the
    basis of
    meaning
    by only examining how this applies to real >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> numbers.
    We must
    broaden
    the scope to every natural language >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expression.

    When we do this then we understand that a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "dead
    rat"
    is not any
    type
    of "fifteen story office building" is a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantic
    tautology that
    cannot
    possibly be false. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    When we understand this then we have much >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deeper
    insight into the
    nature
    of mathematical axioms, they too must be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> semantic
    tautologies.

    There's nothing wrong with Tertium Not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Datur,
    for the class of predicates where it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> applies.

    Which is not all of them. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



    Leafing through Badiou's "Second Manifesto >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ... on
    Philosophy",
    he sort of arrives at again "I am a Platonist, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet a
    sophisticated
    not a vulgar one".

    It seems quite a development when after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Badiou's
    "First Manifesto
    ..."
    twenty years prior, that in the maturation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of his
    philosophical
    development he came again to arrive at truth >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> as its
    own truth.

    Tautology, identity, and equality, are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
    the same
    thing, with regards to deconstructive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> accounts, and
    the distinction
    of extensionality and intensionality, for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sameness
    and
    difference,
    with regards to affirmation and negation, in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual
    modes of
    predicativity and quantifier disambiguation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    A semantic tautology is a term that I came up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with
    that
    self-defines the
    logical positivist notion of analytic truth. It >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> seems
    that most
    people
    succumbed to Quine's nonsense and decided to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> simply
    "not believe in"
    {true on the basis of meaning}. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    We know that the living animal {cat} is not any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> type of
    {fifteen
    story office building} only because of {true on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    basis of
    meaning}.


    Geometry arising as natural and axiomless >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from "a
    geometry of
    points and spaces" from which Euclid's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> geometry
    justly
    arises,
    helps illustrate that deconstructive accounts >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work
    at the
    structuralist and constructivist again, what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> makes
    for
    that
    axiomatics is didactic, vis-a-vis, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamentality.

    Type and category are truly great ideas, it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true,
    and they're modeled as first-class after a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deconstructive
    account of their concrete models, their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abstract
    models.

    Type, and category, have inversions, where for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example
    a cat is a feline animal, while a lion is king >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
    beasts.

    The most usual sorts of is-a and has-a are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> copulas,
    there
    are many sorts predicates of relation of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relation,
    first-class.

    The use/mention distinction has that a type >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a
    type
    is a type,
    that an instance of a type is-or-is-not an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instance of
    a type,
    that it's an instance of a type and is an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instance of
    a type.

    Distinction and contradistinction, have it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so for
    type
    inversion,
    that the abstract and the concrete, model each >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> other.


    Then for geometry (of space) and algebra (of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words),
    there's
    basically that space is infinite and words >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite,
    there's though a space of words and words of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> space.

    Then, type theory and category theory, make >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
    great
    bodies
    of relation of relation, that for most, theory >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is a
    relation
    of relation, and that there is always a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> first-class
    abstraction,
    theory, at all.

    So, an ontology is just a sample of data in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> science.

    The "strong metonymy", is the idea that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there's a
    true
    ontology.
    Of course, it's not absent a metaphysical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> moment.



    A complete
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ontology_(information_science) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>





    is an accurate model of the actual world. Not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    same
    thing at all
    as an ontology from philosophy: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    There is definitely a true ontology even if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every
    aspect of all of
    reality is a figment of the imagination. You >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will
    never
    be able to
    experience what seems to be the physical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sensations of
    taking your
    puppies elevator to his fifteenth floor. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    So, you use quasi-modal logic but proved to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself
    it's not quasi-modal?

    You proved to yourself.


    If you understand that you cannot take the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> elevator to
    the fifteen
    floor
    of your puppy then you know that there are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expressions
    that are
    true on
    the basis of their meaning. Quine could never get >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this.

    One doesn't get a free pass from the argument >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
    rhetoric
    and discourse of the limits of ontology >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> without an
    encompassing
    reason and discourse on the completion of an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ontology, a
    body of
    knowledge, that seems an insufferable >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ignorance and
    it's
    not
    invincible.



    There are billions of things just like puppyies >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are
    not fifteen story office buildings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The usual notion of the quasi-modal model of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world,
    sort of lacks contingency and temporality and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> modality
    everywhere, why it's called quasi-modal, because >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it's
    just
    ignorant that it's not actually modal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (temporal).


    There is no reason why it can't have those >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things.

    It's fair to say that Carnap and Quine and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Vienna
    school
    and logical positivism after Boole and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Shopenhauer
    and
    Derrida
    sort of arrives at a big angsty withdrawal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from a
    true
    theory
    that's true with truth in it, while as well >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> exploring the
    a-letheia the traditional notion of disclosing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what
    are not
    un-truths, "remembering again for the first >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> time",
    and
    all
    these aspects of the canon of the technical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy
    that
    are so because there's sort of before-Hegel and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after-Hegel,
    that Hegel's sort of included in before-Hegel, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
    at the
    same time claimed by after-Hegel, that we are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not new
    Hegelians.

    Much like Kant leaves the Sublime _in_ the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> theory,
    as the
    least "silver thread", connecting a proper >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> metaphysics to
    the physics and it's a science, Hegel makes for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> both a
    fuller dialectic, and, besides Nothing, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hegel's a
    Platonist, too.


    Then, with Wittgenstein and Nietzsche and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Heidegger as,
    "anti-Plato's, and Platonists again", then >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gadamer
    arrives
    at "Amicus Plato, period" and Badiou "you know, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm a
    Platonist
    again", what I think of your machine mind is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that it
    doesn't
    have a first-class mental maturity of an object >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense of
    objectivity.

    You know, fifteen story buildings don't have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thirteenth
    floors, ...,
    in some places.

    The point is that because Quine could not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> understand how
    we know
    that all bachelors are unmarried he might not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> also
    accept
    that no
    puppy is a fifteen story office buildings. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I can surely appreciate a grand ontology, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yet, in
    terms of
    the Ontological Commitment, and what one makes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of an
    Ontological Commitment, that fact that you have >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> given
    yours
    to a bitmap sort of arrives that being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
    lacking
    a more thorough and reasoned goal of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Ontological
    Commitment:
    Reason, Rationality, the Purely Technically >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Philosophical,
    and Science, and the Empirical, the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Phenomenological",
    is something that one can leave or keep, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of
    being
    just awash and adrift in the 0's and 1's. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    It would be organized such the reasoning with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> formalized
    natural language would be tree walks. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    It may be all 0's and 1's down there, yet it's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all
    true and false up there, and here in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> middle is
    a sort of Objectivism.

    What's above is as what is below, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a finite bitmap is so many scrawls >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a stick, in the sand, of the beach, to reckon. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>







    That makes for "relevance logic", that syllogism >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
    makes sense
    in terms among common types. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Yes exactly no one else could get this because they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> try
    to hide their ignorance with insults and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disparagement.

    Also for "relevance logic" is that "Ex Falso >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quodlibet
    and
    Material Implication" are _not_ a thing, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that a
    contradiction
    about un-related/ir-relevant things say absolutely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> _nothing_
    about things.


    Yes that is the exact error of modern logic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {The Moon is made of Green Cheese} proves {Donald >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump is
    God}
    In both the principle of explosion and valid >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> deductive
    inference.

    A deductive argument is said to be valid if and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> only
    if it
    takes a form
    that makes it impossible for the premises to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> true and
    the conclusion
    nevertheless to be
    false.https://iep.utm.edu/val-snd/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Thus enabling 'from falsehood, anything [follows]'; >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Principle_of_explosion

    I.e., "Russell is not the Pope, and Russell never >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> was the
    Pope".

    That works just fine for usual "common-sense" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> types,
    and
    it really even reflects on "common" and "sense", >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
    it's
    why there's "relevance logic" at all from what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise
    was just usual analysis because "classical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quasi-modal
    logic" has "EFQ+MI" and Principle of Explosion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead
    of "Ex Falso Nihilum".

    So, one needn't have a "greater ontology" to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> establish
    that the housecat or juvenile canine and the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> office
    tower
    or a steamboat, while each things, have distinct >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> properties
    which effect their relations in usual enough >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is-a/has-a
    senses
    or as with regards to any other collections of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tuples in
    classes
    and individuals and predicates that affect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> descriptions of
    relations, which of course must be non-circular >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
    non-contradictory.


    The purpose of the greater knowledge ontology that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
    exists
    in the minds of most people is to provide >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> computations
    with
    human
    reasoning. LLM systems have already computed in a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> few
    months what
    would take humans millions of man-years. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    It seems then first you put down the quasi-modal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
    relevance logic its much more sensible framework, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> then at least common-sense is much less insulted. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyc project >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
    spent
    1000 labor years fully formalizing all common >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sense.
    Without
    the help of LLM systems it would take millions of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> labor
    years
    to formalize the rest of human general knowledge. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    My usual biggest gripe is about EFQ+MI which >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I am not sure what you mean by MI. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    seems totally insouciant if not duplicitous, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and absolutely un-necessary, then about Tertium >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Non Datur gets involved the multi-valent, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the temporal and so on, then besides the usual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notions of of sputniks of quantification of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> usual roots of "logical" paradox, a deconstructive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> account after modern fundamental formalisms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> results a quite better approach to modern >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> foudnations,
    also modern fundamental formalist foundations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The sum total of all human general knowledge can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> encoded
    in mostly in formalized natural language >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> propositions.
    Some
    of this must be formalized using other formal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> languages.
    One can explain the details of writing C >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> programs in
    English
    yet needs some actual C mixed into the explanation. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    We don't really need multi-valent logic. Mostly >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what we
    need
    is an enormously large number of axioms that are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stipulated
    to have the Boolean value of true. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    We can compress the space required for these axioms >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
    make
    them much easier to process in an inheritance >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hierarchy
    knowledge
    ontology. We also refrain from directly encoding >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and
    facts
    of the
    world that can be derived from other facts of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> world.

    {Cats} <are> {Animals}
    {Animals} <are> {Living Things} >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> thus no need to store
    {Cats} <are> {Living Things}

    This is already in the knowledge ontology >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inheritance
    hierarchy.
    UML Inheritance {cat} ▷ {animal} ▷ {Living Thing} >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>






    A usual idea of a more robust deduction is also >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the premises have to be drawable as random >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> draws and that it results the same deduction >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> regardless the order of the draws. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I have not idea what this could possibly mean. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> {Cats} <are> {Animals} can only be deduced from the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> axiom {Cats} <are> {Animals}.

    So, I don't agree that being "valid deductive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inference",
    it not being sound given arbitrary order-senstive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> premises.


    This is valid deductive inference as shown by my >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> analysis
    above:
    {The Moon is made of Green Cheese} proves {Donald >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump is
    God}

    That is, a robust and sound and valid deductive >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> inference,
    has to be the same from any angle and any draw or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any
    serialization of the premises (or "premisses"). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    If we don't somehow have some aspects of semantic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevance
    directly encoded into our notion of formal systems of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logic
    then we get
    {The Moon is made of Green Cheese} proves {Donald >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Trump is
    God}


    The "EFQ+MI" is "Ex False Quodlibet plus Material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Implication", where "Material Implication" is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> neither
    "material" nor "implication" and "not p, or q" does >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not have a "truth value", and doesn't belong in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a "truth table",

    I totally agree with you on this. All of the other >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> people on
    these forums take the steps of logic as forming their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> own
    foundation and thus are inherently correct even when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they
    derive nonsense.

    I would replace implication with is a necessary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consequence
    of.
    Making the unary operator □ also be applied to binary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relations.
    ∃!fluffy ∈ Cats | (Fluffy □ Animal). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    They simply stipulate that the nonsense that they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> derive
    cannot
    possibly be nonsense on basis of their religious >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> belief
    that the
    steps of logic are inherently infallible. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    They then go on to assert that anyone that does not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hold
    this
    religious belief is totally ignorant about logic. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> They
    never
    realize that the issue is their own ignorance of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy
    of logic.

    with regards to why a usual "model" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in such a setting also isn't a model and usual >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "monotonicity"
    in such a setting also isn't and a usual "entails" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in such a setting also isn't, that being why what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    A is a necessary consequence of B: A □ B seems to be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> entails.

    you'll find in the field called "Comte's Boole's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Russell's
    logical positivism's 'classical' logic" is renamed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its
    more proper appellation "classical _quasi-modal_ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logic".

    This is like, "ass|u|me", and "e fq mi", both >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> considered
    bad ideas.


    You are almost the only one that every agreed with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> me on
    this.
    The only other one the agreed that EFQ is nonsense >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had
    their
    answer voted down to oblivion on SE. Logicians and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mathematicians
    have the firmly held religious belief that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rules of
    logic
    are inherently infallible and utterly ridicule anyone >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
    fully understands all of the reasoning that proves >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> otherwise.

    When this proof is presented to them they put their >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hands
    over their ears making sure to not hear a single word >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> while
    shouting your stupid fool you don't know logic at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> all.

    The premises, of deductive inference, if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're in
    a given order, _is another premise_, and when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> they're
    _not_,
    then those _are not_.

    Every sequence of inference steps must be in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proper
    order
    or there is no connection between inference steps. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The idea of "Large Language Model" is largely bunk, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a model of reasoning can be very compact. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just having an arithmetic/vector coding of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> associated
    values in types, is just an addressing scheme. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    It is not actually largely bunk.
    It has the key issue that it lies its ass off. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    Hallucination_(artificial_intelligence) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>






    Technology like this is the only feasible way that we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can
    populate a knowledge ontology of the general >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge of
    the actual world.

    This dialogue proves that it has the equivalent of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> human
    understanding
    that undecidable decision problems are really nothing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> more
    than yes/no
    questions defined to have no correct yes/no answer. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.liarparadox.org/ChatGPT_HP.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Schroedinger's cat, now, helps explores in concept >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the nature of indeterminism, and why, inference and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reasoning is first-class, not follow-the-red-dot. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>



    What you get into is the box and circle modalities, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about when the transfer principle applies and >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a heap is a heap is a heap or the Sorities, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of definition, not a paradox, disambiguated >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in its quantifiers by disambiguating the universal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quantifier,
    into for: any/each/every/all, existential as unique or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not,
    the result _direct implication_ carries and with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ALL of De Morgan's rules of logic, simplifies things, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and excludes any sort "paradox".

    That a cat has a kingdom and a genus and species >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vis-a-vis
    being in a class of a kingdom and genus and speciesas >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is-a,
    just
    reflects that is-a and has-a are only about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> predicates
    and relations, predicate logic and the predicate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> calculus,
    and the resulting logic large of relations, and not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> necessarily
    to be confused with Tarski's "cylindrical" bits when >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> for
    example there is algebraic GEOMETRY and ALGEBRAIC >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> geometry
    and they're _two, different things_. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I usually like to frame predicates as 'has-a' >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instead of
    'is-a', because, things change, and "is" just "is". >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    It's all relations of course, predicates is relations. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I often have said "anybody who buys or shills Material >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Implication
    is a fool or a fraud". The _direct_ implication, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
    plain
    old implication, first of all fills all of De Morgan's >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rules
    of logic
    both ways, and, does not need "Material Implication", >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is
    neither,
    at all.


    Russell: was never, the Pope.



    Things have Types. So, one should be familiar with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C.S.
    Peirce
    and the Lambda Calculus, yet, in the logic of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> universals
    and
    particulars, there is the besides Type Inversion, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
    are as
    well quantifier ambiguities, simply courtesy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> quantification
    and schemes or schemas, to be resolved with quantifier >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> disambiguation
    and the correct and adequate book-keeping of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contingency
    the
    modality in predication the relation a stroke, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> evaluation.

    (Judgment.)

    The Bottom line that you seem to be avoiding is that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there
    really
    are expressions that are {true on the basis of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning}.

    SOME statements are true based on their "meaning" (as >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you are
    defining it), not all.

    Not ALL True statements are True based on the meaning of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> their
    words.

    Agaim, you are falling for the fallacy of proof by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example.

    The Pythagorean Theorem isn't True by the meaning of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words,
    but its truth comes out of the Truth makers of Plane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geometry
    and a series of valid connections from them to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Theorem.


    We really cannot take the elevator of a puppy to the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fifteenth
    floor of this puppy and this is {true on the basis of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning}.

    The majority of people that were convinced there is no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such
    thing
    as {true on the basis of meaning} on the basis that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Quine
    utterly
    failed to understand how we know that bachelors are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unmarried
    are
    simply wrong.

    I don't think many people think that there are no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statements
    that are true by the nature of the meaning of the words, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> just
    that the "meaning of the words" can't be the only >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> criteria.


    I never restricted it this way (to the meaning of words) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    THen you DO accept that Godel's G is a true statement by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> its
    meaning since there does not exist any number g that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> satisfies
    the
    defined Primitive Recursive Relationship?

    And this can be established by the infinite sequence of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> steps of
    checking every Natural Number against that relationship, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is
    the classical meaning of Semantically true,

    And thus is can not be a epistemological antinomy. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    I never even restricted on on the basis of the: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    *Principle of compositionality*
    In semantics, mathematical logic and related disciplines, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    principle
    of compositionality is the principle that the meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a
    complex
    expression is determined by the meanings of its >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> constituent
    expressions
    and the rules used to combine them.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/
    Principle_of_compositionality


    I have *always* meant the 100% perfectly totally complete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning that also includes the full discourse context. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    How does that show that the Pathagorean Theorem is true? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    The question isn't determining the "Meaning of the Words" >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which is
    what the full discourse context would provide, but the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> sequence of
    the logical arguement that proves it, which is something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> which
    goes beyound "meaning" of the words.



    Do you think that it is possible to:
    take the elevator of a puppy to the fifteenth floor of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
    puppy?
    or would the total meaning of the expression make that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> impossible?

    Nope. WHich is a fallacy of proof by example. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Note, all your examples go to the most primiative form of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> logic,
    which if that is all you have, can be complete because it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will be
    finite.


    Maybe my example would have given Quine a clue about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how we
    know
    that all bachelors are unmarried. He is the one that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> convinced
    most of the world that {true on the basis of meaning} is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vacuous
    and he did this almost entirely on the basis that he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> could not
    understand exactly how we know that all bachelors are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> unmarried.

    {true on the basis of meaning} is only relations between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> finite
    strings thus excludes direct observations of things in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    world.

    *Two Dogmas of Empiricism*
    https://www.ditext.com/quine/quine.html


    Since none of this relates to Formal logic or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> undecidability or
    incompleteness, I will presume that you are just admitting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
    you have no answers to the replys and are just working >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on Red
    Herring.


    Note, Quine doesn't say that we can't show that all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bachelors are
    unmarried, but that bachelor and unmarried are not >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SYNONYMS
    replaceable with each other, and that logic that is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> based on
    that
    is too imprecise, and we need to better define the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rules of
    logic
    when doing such things.

    The key point here is that while the classical definition >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of a
    bachelor is a never married man (though some uses of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> words
    might include a man that was married but now nolonger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> has a
    wife),
    the word "unmarried" also has ranges of meaning from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "never
    married" to "currently not married" and thus the two words >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> can't
    be considered truely equivalent words.

    *Thanks for your apt analysis. I can't tolerate wading >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through
    nonsense*
    Once I understood that his conclusion was {true on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> basis of
    meaning}
    is not viable I can't tolerate carefully examining how he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> came up
    with
    that. He might as well have said that 2 + 3 = 5 is not true >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because he
    simply does not believe in numbers.


    Except that you don't understand what he actually said, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because you
    don;t understand the terminology, and you think because he >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> says
    things your don't understand that he must be wrong. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    No, you are just too stupid to understand what he says. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I may not fully understand exact what he said.
    I do know that {true on the basis of meaning} is
    completely valid.

    In the sense that if by the meaning of the words, the >>>>>>>>>>>>> statement
    MUST
    ALWAYS be true, then the statement should have been an axiom >>>>>>>>>>>>> of the
    system or derivable from the axioms of the system.


    Yes exactly. In the case of natural language semantics all of >>>>>>>>>>>> the
    facts
    of the world must be formalized natural language encoded in a >>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge
    ontology inheritance hierarchy.
    True(L, x)  ≡ ∃x ∈ L (L ⊢ x)
    False(L, x) ≡ ∃x ∈ L (L ⊢ ¬x)
    Truth_Bearer(L, x) ≡ ∃x ∈ L (True(L, x) ∨ False(L, ¬x)) >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Note, that also means that the words and definitions used >>>>>>>>>>>>> must be
    valid in that logical system.

    For instance, in a system like Mathematics, that doesn't >>>>>>>>>>>>> define
    what
    animals are, the statement "Cats are Animals" is NOT a "True >>>>>>>>>>>>> Statement", even if a normally true statement in English, >>>>>>>>>>>>> because it
    refers to things outs


    The category of things that are cats is a proper subset of >>>>>>>>>>>> the category of things that are animals. Even the categorical >>>>>>>>>>>> propositions of the syllogism can properly encode this. >>>>>>>>>>>>

    My concrete example that one cannot take the elevator of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> puppy to the fifteenth floor of this puppy conclusively >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> proves
    that {true on the basis of meaning} does have some >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances.

    And just shows that you believe the fallacy of proof by >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example is
    actually proper logic.


    In logic and mathematics, proof by example (sometimes >>>>>>>>>>>>>> known as
    inappropriate generalization) is a logical fallacy whereby >>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    validity
    of a statement is illustrated through one or more examples or >>>>>>>>>>>>>> cases—
    rather than a full-fledged proof.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_example

    Note, you said "Illustrated", which doesn't mean PROVE. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    So then what I said is even less of a proof by example because >>>>>>>>>>>> my example does prove an instance of {true on the basis of >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning}.

    As an example, the statement that Mens names begin with P >>>>>>>>>>>>> could be
    "illustrated" with example like Peter and Paul, but that >>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't
    show
    that the statement is actually true, at least not if >>>>>>>>>>>>> interpreted as
    ALL Men's names begin with P.


    It conclusively proves that it is true for at least two >>>>>>>>>>>> instances.



    My proof by example does prove that the notion of
    {true on the basis of meaning} is not invalid in every single >>>>>>>>>>>>>> case.

    Right, and no one says that it is invalid in every single >>>>>>>>>>>>> case, so
    you
    are arguing a strawman, another fallacy.

    Note, as shown above, True by the Meaning of the words is not >>>>>>>>>>>>> even
    always applicable.


    *My unique insight into this issue is that*
    {true on the basis of meaning} (TotBoM) is restricted to >>>>>>>>>>>> relations
    between finite strings, thus making {true on the basis of >>>>>>>>>>>> meaning}
    unequivocally divided from {true on the basis of observation} >>>>>>>>>>>> (TotBoO)

    Try and show that there is an exception to (TotBoM).


    I never said I was generalizing to any other cases so there >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no
    error.
    *The next step is testing the boundary conditions*

    And that says you are trying to do so.


    What are the closest counter-examples to
    {true on the basis of meaning} when this

    Which is an invalid arguement,

    is limited to relations between finite strings?

    But it doesn't work for ALL finite strings, so that case is >>>>>>>>>>>>> outside
    the boundery where it is a true statement, as shown above. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I cannot find any finite string that it does not work for >>>>>>>>>>>> except for
    unknowns.

    "All Cats are Animals" is NOT a "True Statement" in the >>>>>>>>>>>>> field of
    Arithmetic, because Cats and Animals are outside that field. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I HAVE NEVER EVERY BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE FIELD OF ARITHMETIC >>>>>>>>>>>> I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN TALKING ABOUT THE GENERIC NOTION OF >>>>>>>>>>>> {true on the basis of meaning} that applies to everything >>>>>>>>>>>> including arithmetic.

    It also fails for the more general issue that your "finite >>>>>>>>>>>>> string"
    needs to be interpreted in the full context of the field you >>>>>>>>>>>>> are
    analyzing,


    No interpretation needed when all of the details of all of the >>>>>>>>>>>> meanings
    are fully specified as axioms or derived form axioms.


    The prior analytic / synthetic distinction was very blurry >>>>>>>>>>>>>> my TotBoM/TotBoO distinction seems totally unequivocal. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Nope


    Show all of the details of exactly how I am incorrect instead >>>>>>>>>>>> of the
    merely dogmatic bluster of disagreement.



    *My unique insight into this issue is that*
    {true on the basis of meaning} (TotBoM) is restricted to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relations
    between finite strings, thus making {true on the basis of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> meaning}
    unequivocally divided from {true on the basis of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> observation}
    (TotBoO)


    And, since you can't show how this lets you show that the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pythogrean
    Theorem it true in Plane Geometery, or that 2 + 3 = 5 (since >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
    fail to answer the challanges) you are just admitting that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your
    unique insight just works for TOY problems that don't really >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter,
    and you are just too stupid to understand that restriction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I don't have time to get into endless details. I can get >>>>>>>>>>>>>> into a
    few key details. I do understand how the Peano axioms prove >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
    2 + 3 = 5. And since you do too and it is not a
    counter-example
    to {true on the basis of meaning} it seems like an >>>>>>>>>>>>>> inessential
    distraction. I don't have time for those.

    It shows that True on the basis of meaning is not a sufficient >>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of truth. At best, True on the basis of meaning >>>>>>>>>>>>> is a
    method
    to establish what might make sense as a primitive axiom of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> system,
    if it can't easily be proven by existing axioms.


    A "primitive" axiom system that has every single detail of the >>>>>>>>>>>> accurate
    model of the actual world would enable every aspect of human >>>>>>>>>>>> reasoning
    to be computable. To be actually feasible the main system would >>>>>>>>>>>> only
    have general knowledge. A separate subsystem could have all >>>>>>>>>>>> of the
    details of the current situation, ie the full discourse >>>>>>>>>>>> context.

    Of course, that only happens once you pass the concept that >>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    definitions used need to be from the definitions of the >>>>>>>>>>>>> system, and
    the concepts are also in the system.

    Since Definitions provide a base set of axioms, things that >>>>>>>>>>>>> are
    true
    by definition should already be axioms or provable from >>>>>>>>>>>>> them, if
    they
    are actually in the system.


    It took the cyc project 100 labor years to manually encode the >>>>>>>>>>>> tiny
    subset of human knowledge known as "common sense". We need to >>>>>>>>>>>> leverage
    something like LLM technology to make populating such an >>>>>>>>>>>> ontology
    with
    the rest of the general knowledge of the world.


    An actual counter-example boundary condition to
    {true on the basis of meaning} would be the next step. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Like "Cats are Animals" is not true in some (many) fields of >>>>>>>>>>>>> study
    because those fields don't HAVE "Cats" or "Animals"? >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    I have always only been talking about a formal system that >>>>>>>>>>>> has all of the general knowledge of the actual world encoded >>>>>>>>>>>> within it. Yes it does exclude unknown things.

    We don't need to know whether the Goldbach conjecture is true >>>>>>>>>>>> or false to prove that there is no publicly available evidence >>>>>>>>>>>> of election fraud that could have possibly changed the outcome >>>>>>>>>>>> of the 2020 presidential election.


    You already know how the above two examples would be >>>>>>>>>>>>>> specified.
    What we need are examples that are very tricky to specify. >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    They aren't that tricky, as I have shown even more for you. >>>>>>>>>>>>>

    The only thing that I recall that you have ever shown is >>>>>>>>>>>> that an
    accurate model of the actual world must exclude unknowns. >>>>>>>>>>>>


    Bachelor is simply assigned a range of semantic meanings >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
    are entirely defined in terms of other defined words. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    We can easily 100% precisely define 10,000 different >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> notions
    of bachelor and give them their own unique index. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    But we don't, so it doesn't matter.


    Bachelor[0] = never married adult male
    Bachelor[1] = not currently married adult male >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bachelor[951] having completed a four year degree. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    In this case we can clearly see that the LHS is synonymous >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the RHS because the RHS is assigned to the LHS. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    So, if you want to define your "Natural Language" logic to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NOT be
    actaully based on "Natural Language" but this marked up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version
    where every word needs to be fully qualified to precisely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> state its
    meaning, this just shows you don't understand the meaning of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the
    words you are using.


    It conclusively proves that I fully addressed the objections >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that
    you and Quine specified. If you think that I did not prove >>>>>>>>>>>>>> this
    then show what I missed.

    Nope. You may have answer the objections you understand, but >>>>>>>>>>>>> you
    still
    don't understand the problem, because you are too stupid and >>>>>>>>>>>>> you
    logic
    is too simple.


    Then please state clearly the essence of the key details that I >>>>>>>>>>>> missed.
    I did prove every single detail of exactly and precisely how >>>>>>>>>>>> the
    term
    "bachelor" is synonymous to the set of constituent terms that >>>>>>>>>>>> define its
    meaning.

    This seemed to be the whole issue that you elaborated. If I >>>>>>>>>>>> did not sufficiently address words that you never said then >>>>>>>>>>>> you must first say these words.


    Until you publish this dictionary that FULLY defines all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> shades of
    meaning for every word, and then fully mark up every >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> statement
    you
    right, you are just proving yourself to be a hypocrit, and a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> liar.


    Not at all and you know it. The architecture design is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> already
    substantially implemented in the CYC project. They already >>>>>>>>>>>>>> spent
    more than 1000 labor years on this over the last few decades. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    Nope, you don't get it. Since Natural Language doesn't come >>>>>>>>>>>>> with
    the
    tags, until you make natural language come with the tags, or >>>>>>>>>>>>> show an
    algorithmic method to assign tags with 100% accuracys, you >>>>>>>>>>>>> can't
    use
    them.


    Sure you can. Each word has a finite set of sense meanings that >>>>>>>>>>>> can be precisely referenced by its subscript in an ISO standard >>>>>>>>>>>> dictionary of English. When a subscript is not specified then >>>>>>>>>>>> it defaults to its [0] index meaning.

    But that juts not the way that people do this.

    We were not talking about the way that people do this
    we were answering the question:

    Is it possible to eliminate ambiguity in natural language >>>>>>>>>>>> semantics?
    Yes it is possible. The CYC project already does this. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    You are just guilty of a lying Strawman by claiming to be >>>>>>>>>>>>> talking
    about "Natural Language", when you actually are talking >>>>>>>>>>>>> about the
    UNnatural language of full tagged language.

    Your ACTUAL claim turns out to be more like in a FULLY FORMAL >>>>>>>>>>>>> language
    with all references being unambigious, we can detect if a >>>>>>>>>>>>> statement is
    an axiom of the system by it being isomorphic to one of them. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Formalized natural language enables an axiomatic system >>>>>>>>>>>> of natural language meanings that has zero ambiguity.


    It seems you describe "intersubjectivity", yet the
    interpretation of texts is subjective, so, while it

    So maybe 5 > 3 actually means: "go eat a peanut butter sandwich >>>>>>>>>> right
    now" ? My axiomatic system abolishes all subjectivity by making >>>>>>>>>> all of
    the facts of the world as stipulated relations between finite >>>>>>>>>> strings.

    is so that there are formal languages that happen
    to intersect and be unambiguous subsets of natural
    language, there's always a wider context.


    I am saying that all of the facts of the general knowledge >>>>>>>>>> of the actual world are stipulated relations between finite >>>>>>>>>> strings.

    Then, the idea that there is a universe of language,
    a "Comenius language", which equals "all truisms plus

    I knew that there was a guy that specified a language
    that contains only truisms. The internet seems to have
    lost track of this.

    one prototype of a fallacy discernible from the rest",
    is a sort of platonist, monist view of an interobjectivity. >>>>>>>>>>>

    I don't know what that means.

    You might learn from both scientific approaches to
    interpretation, and deconstructionist approaches to
    interpretation, with regards to those being
    intersubjective, and eventually structuralist and, "true". >>>>>>>>>>>

    My system eliminates the need for any interpretation it is all >>>>>>>>>> stipulated relations between finite strings where each sense >>>>>>>>>> meaning
    of every word has a unique 128-bit integer GUID. Words are >>>>>>>>>> combined
    together forming larger units of meaning by the principle of >>>>>>>>>> compositionality. Discourse context is explicitly encoded. >>>>>>>>>>
    There's a significant canon about the dogma and doctrine >>>>>>>>>>> of these ultimately philosophical and metaphysical aspects >>>>>>>>>>> with their teleological and technically philosophical,
    and logical and mathematical, objects of interobjectivity. >>>>>>>>>>>

    So, again, there _are_ extra-ordinary approaches to otherwise >>>>>>>>>>> the incomplete aspects of incompleteness and so on,
    and there _are_ reasons how to reject and rehabilitate
    any "paradoxes" of logic, here for example excluding EFQ, >>>>>>>>>>> and making TND only a class of concerns, yet, one may
    not simply stipulate that instead only find its disclosure >>>>>>>>>>> and discovery, the learning thereof, and the scientific
    practice and intersubjective interpretation, for that
    two wrongs make not a right.


      X can't be derived from facts of the world entails untrue. >>>>>>>>>> ~X can't be derived from facts of the world entails unfalse. >>>>>>>>>>

    A knowledge bank is a great thing for matters of
    intersubjective definition.

    Garbage in?  Garbage out, is the usual idea.
    The usual hope is "garbage in:  garbage detected,
    garbage deleted".


    --
    https://www.youtube.com/@rossfinlayson




    When you say "derived" and "entails", it seems you're assuming >>>>>>>>> you have some "consistent world of facts" which is the usual >>>>>>>>> idea of a "model", which is not the same thing as "the theory's >>>>>>>>> model", if in any case at all you're employing "not p, or, q", >>>>>>>>> or "material implication".


    Material implication is rejected and is replaced with the binary >>>>>>>> form of the unary □ necessity operator. This is all done in proof >>>>>>>> theory as relations between finite strings. (A ∧ ¬A) □ FALSE >>>>>>>> The underlying analysis of True(L, A) requires that A by provable >>>>>>>> from the axioms of L. Propositional logic is excluded. One is
    not allowed to dogmatically declare that A is True.

    Then, you got "untrue" and "unfalse", which one might figure >>>>>>>>> as "not necessarily true" and "not necessarily false", that
    "not" and "necessarily" sort of necessarily require precedence >>>>>>>>> associating contingency or lack thereof with negation or lack >>>>>>>>> thereof.


    ~True(L, x) and ~True(L, ~x) entails ~Proposition(L, x).

    Saying that you have a coding of terms to a large address space, >>>>>>>>> and being granular in terms instead of composite, has that,
    while a dictionary may have entries for each term, the language >>>>>>>>> has words that are composites etymologically. Words have roots >>>>>>>>> and turns of phrase have, roots, and the entire history and
    historiography of their usage, in, "definitional dynamics".


    Close, yet not quite. All of the current recursive definitions of >>>>>>>> terms
    are stipulated to be true and historical usage is ignored. Pluto is >>>>>>>> not
    a planet.


    The "intersubjectivity" is to mean that "there's no need for >>>>>>>>> generous or ingenerous interpretation or any sort of
    under-standing, it's unambiguous a sole interpretation in
    terms of a reference formal model". The idea that a
    dictionary is each of its words is that the language
    is all of its words.


    The entire formal system of all of the facts of the world are
    stipulated relations between finite strings. To minimize space >>>>>>>> and maximize effectiveness the most basic facts are stipulated >>>>>>>> and most other facts are derived from these basic facts.

    We don't say: {cats are animals} and {animals are living things}. >>>>>>>> Instead {cats} inherits from {animals} that inherits from {living >>>>>>>> things} in a knowledge ontology.


    I encountered the term "Comenius language" in Rucker or Hofstadter >>>>>>>>> if I recall. Then I appropriated it for "a universe of terms", >>>>>>>>> truisms.


    OK. I have Rucker, I don't have Hofstadter.


    So, a dictionary, is a sort of algebraization, arithmetization, >>>>>>>>> geometrization. That is, the widely varying objects of algebra, >>>>>>>>> or the more staid objects of arithmetic or geometry, having an >>>>>>>>> assignment as a model to a model of other objects, have that >>>>>>>>> all and only the relations of the model effect the relations of >>>>>>>>> the modeled. So, having an address space of 2^128 terms,
    variously does or doesn't effect any of those. The whole idea >>>>>>>>> of the vector models is for a group of related terms, to
    have them have some of the properties of an algebra, that
    reflect that related terms are near to each other in the
    address space, reducing the space once landing somewhere
    among the terms, from a vector association, to a group of
    terms. That's about all there is to it, making an arithmetic >>>>>>>>> coding of sorts, or a geometric coding of sorts, computing
    addresses, and having some of their vector products associated >>>>>>>>> with the relations in the address space.


    It is all a knowledge ontology inheritance hierarchy used in proof >>>>>>>> theory not model theory.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontology_(information_science)

    Same idea as the Cyc project.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyc


    A usual old definition of insanity is "doing things the same
    and expecting things to change", while, another usual old
    definition of insanity is "doing things the same and expecting
    things to never change".

    This is the old Apollo/MarkTwain bit, "for each great saying,
    there's an equal and opposite great saying", also "old wrapped
    as new".

    So, a "quasi-modal", logic, and where proof theory and model
    theory are equi-interpretable, is not altogether in the common
    modality, which is time's temporality, i.e., that's only quasi- >>>>>>> modal.

    A foolish consistency in little minds is bigger in bigger minds. >>>>>>>
    I seem to recall it was Rucker, yet there's a lot in Hofstadter. >>>>>>>
    The only constant is change, ....

    So, anyways, your ass|u|me and efq+mi is old hat, and,
    it's old quasi-modal hat.


    When people realize that the POE is a psychotic break
    from reality why has it not been abandoned?

    mi is counter-intuitive because it says if-then yet does
    not actually mean if-then may be more of a communication
    error than a logic error.

    Adding temporality and contingency everywhere is a large
    part of what makes logical positivism and science the theory.

    Where in your theory is that it changes?



    If it is raining right now where you are and you go
    outside unprotected from the rain then you will get wet.

    contingency
    temporality
    location




    How cold is absolute zero?

    It's not hot at all, ....



    The joke here goes, three people are on a train to
    Scotland.  They make a rise of a hill, and above
    the rise, is a rise.  On the rise, of the hill,
    is a sheep.  Sheep, are black, or white.  The sheep,
    is black.

    The first person says "ah, sheep, in Scotland, are black".

    The second says "ah, at least one sheep, in Scotland, is black".

    The third notes "ah, at least one side, of one sheep, at one moment, >>>>> appears black".

    In Scotland, ....




    A usual Zen koan reads, two Buddhist priests observe a flag,
    in the breeze.

    The first says, "the flag, moves, in the breeze".
    The second says, "the breezes, moves, the flag, in it".

    A third says "it is your mind that moves".




    A usual expectation is that water is wet,
    a usual notion of slacking, removes water,
    and, not all substances absorb water.
    The water in this case falls right off.



    Model and proof theory are equi-interpretable,
    including where exceptions are rules and rules are exceptions.


    Man simplifies the conception of these things
    with the fuller dialectic and entertaining
    the complementary duals as one.

    It's called "thinking" beyond "stimulus box response".



    None-the-less at the rate we are going there is too much
    of a chance that humanity will kill off all life on the
    planet in defense of Putin's land grab mostly because we
    did not have a sufficiently precise meaning of words so
    that "land-grab" could be accurately discerned from
    "fighting fascism" through the clouds of propaganda.

    I aim to correct that yet some people on this platform
    (not you) would rather play silly head games at the
    expense of the survival of life on Earth.



    Well, then you get into models of belief, of others.


    The only thing that I have ever been talking about is True(L,x)
    specified as relations between finite strings such that a
    correct and consistent True(L,x) can be defined for every
    element of human knowledge that can be expressed using language.

    There's psychology, you know, and analytic psychology,
    then that's psychology of a person (one hopes), then
    there's ochlology, or mass or mob psychology, and the
    usual idea that statistical hypotheses according to the
    law(s) of small and large numbers are hypotheses
    about individuals from crowd yet invalid about
    individuals apiece.

    So, you have a model that humans don't share a hive-mind,
    and they each have their own different and self-contained
    bodies of knowledge, where as Sagan put it the reason
    humans are intelligent as a species is because of libraries
    of course, that also it's because the library's got the classics.

    "I consider it a moral obligation not to make assertions
    about things one cannot see or whose existence cannot
    be proved, and I consider it an abuse of epistemological
    power to do so regardless. These rules apply to all
    experimental science. Other rules apply to metaphysics.
    I regard myself as answerable to the rules of experimental
    science. As a result nowhere in my work are there any
    metaphysical assertions nor – nota bene – any negations
    of a metaphysical nature." - Carl Jung


    Now, here, of course, there is a brief metaphysics,
    because that there's a foundations involves the entire
    theory of the universe of logical and mathematical
    objects, nary a paradox to be found. (That there
    may be metaphysical paradox is only super-scientific,
    while that humans have various and sometimes
    irrational models of belief is part of "the human condition".)


    So, there is a brief metaphysics, yet it's also quite full,
    where "axiomless natural deduction" arrives at "axiomless
    geometry" and a "the logic" and a "the mathematics",
    with yet the overall pragma, requirements, and desiderata
    that it's constant, consistent, complete, and, concrete.


    Then when you got instead "I got a giant peephole on
    people's inner lives and I think most of them are bad",
    well you got "familiarity breeds contempt" yet mostly
    "mind your own business because knowledge is responsibility".

    And, you know, teapot kettle black.

    There's a certain strength in having a giant body of knowledge.

    There's another in having a quite more brief one,
    because the larger it is the more likely something's wrong.

    There seems a most certain strength in a small, yet thorough,
    constant consistent complete concrete theory.

    It helps when most of the work of the Ontological Commitment
    is provided by a dogma and doctrine called reason (mathematics, logic)
    and natural science (physics, science).





    Ah. What you have there is "Believes(you, L, x)", I believe.

    Not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that,
    If we cannot get to True(L,x) then most of life on
    Earth will perish because greed is causing climate
    change to kill it.

    Do you comprehend that truth transcends belief or
    is this over your head?
    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
    reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
    The complete structure of this system is now defined.

    The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
    comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
    (a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

    My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
    expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
    language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

    (b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
    entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to sci.logic,comp.theory,sci.lang,comp.ai.philosophy on Sun May 24 17:31:20 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 5/24/2026 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 24/05/2026 02:34, polcott wrote:
    On 5/23/2026 5:41 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    Ah. What you have there is "Believes(you, L, x)", I believe.


    No! It is all computed objective truth on the basis
    of stipulated objectively true atomic facts.

    What you call "stipulated objectively true atomic facts" may be

    Are things such as "cats" <are> "animals" where
    disagreement is error.

    objectively false and so can be whatever is computed from them
    even when the computation itelf is objetively valid.


    SEMANTIC TAUTOLOGIES are expressions of language that
    are proved necessarily true entirely on the basis of
    other expressions of language.

    In epistemology (theory of knowledge), a self-evident
    proposition is a proposition that is known to be true
    by understanding its meaning without proof. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-evidence
    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
    reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
    The complete structure of this system is now defined.

    The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
    comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
    (a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

    My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
    expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
    language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

    (b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
    entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to sci.logic,comp.theory,sci.lang,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon May 25 11:03:13 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 25/05/2026 01:31, olcott wrote:
    On 5/24/2026 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 24/05/2026 02:34, polcott wrote:
    On 5/23/2026 5:41 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    Ah. What you have there is "Believes(you, L, x)", I believe.


    No! It is all computed objective truth on the basis
    of stipulated objectively true atomic facts.

    What you call "stipulated objectively true atomic facts" may be

    Are things such as "cats" <are> "animals" where
    disagreement is error.

    The proposed service is not very useful if its scope is testricted
    to what everbody already knows.

    objectively false and so can be whatever is computed from them
    even when the computation itelf is objetively valid.

    SEMANTIC TAUTOLOGIES are expressions of language that
    are proved necessarily true entirely on the basis of
    other expressions of language.

    In epistemology (theory of knowledge), a self-evident
    proposition is a proposition that is known to be true
    by understanding its meaning without proof. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-evidence

    A self-evident proposition is outside of the main scope of
    epistemology though it may have some marginal significance.
    --
    Mikko
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to sci.logic,sci.math,sci.lang,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon May 25 09:12:58 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 5/25/2026 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 25/05/2026 01:31, olcott wrote:
    On 5/24/2026 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 24/05/2026 02:34, polcott wrote:
    On 5/23/2026 5:41 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    Ah. What you have there is "Believes(you, L, x)", I believe.


    No! It is all computed objective truth on the basis
    of stipulated objectively true atomic facts.

    What you call "stipulated objectively true atomic facts" may be

    Are things such as "cats" <are> "animals" where
    disagreement is error.

    The proposed service is not very useful if its scope is testricted
    to what everbody already knows.


    If it is not what somebody know then it is not knowledge.
    The key purpose of the system is to disseminate correct
    knowledge dividing well crafted lies from truth.

    objectively false and so can be whatever is computed from them
    even when the computation itelf is objetively valid.

    SEMANTIC TAUTOLOGIES are expressions of language that
    are proved necessarily true entirely on the basis of
    other expressions of language.

    In epistemology (theory of knowledge), a self-evident
    proposition is a proposition that is known to be true
    by understanding its meaning without proof.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-evidence

    A self-evident proposition is outside of the main scope of
    epistemology though it may have some marginal significance.


    That is flatly incorrect to the degree of calling a
    cat some kind of breed of dog. Self-evidence is the
    primary core of epistemology. It is the glue that
    holds semantics together.
    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
    reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
    The complete structure of this system is now defined.

    The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
    comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
    (a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

    My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
    expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
    language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

    (b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
    entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.logic,sci.math,sci.lang,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon May 25 09:48:46 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 05/25/2026 07:12 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 5/25/2026 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 25/05/2026 01:31, olcott wrote:
    On 5/24/2026 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 24/05/2026 02:34, polcott wrote:
    On 5/23/2026 5:41 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    Ah. What you have there is "Believes(you, L, x)", I believe.


    No! It is all computed objective truth on the basis
    of stipulated objectively true atomic facts.

    What you call "stipulated objectively true atomic facts" may be

    Are things such as "cats" <are> "animals" where
    disagreement is error.

    The proposed service is not very useful if its scope is testricted
    to what everbody already knows.


    If it is not what somebody know then it is not knowledge.
    The key purpose of the system is to disseminate correct
    knowledge dividing well crafted lies from truth.

    objectively false and so can be whatever is computed from them
    even when the computation itelf is objetively valid.

    SEMANTIC TAUTOLOGIES are expressions of language that
    are proved necessarily true entirely on the basis of
    other expressions of language.

    In epistemology (theory of knowledge), a self-evident
    proposition is a proposition that is known to be true
    by understanding its meaning without proof.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-evidence

    A self-evident proposition is outside of the main scope of
    epistemology though it may have some marginal significance.


    That is flatly incorrect to the degree of calling a
    cat some kind of breed of dog. Self-evidence is the
    primary core of epistemology. It is the glue that
    holds semantics together.




    "Isn't it ironic?"


    The idea of "complementary duals" has for example that
    x = x and x = V \ x, where 'V' is the universe,
    and V \ x is an elementary embedding of the universe
    into itself making the most obvious sort of example
    of a resolution of the "Kunen inconsistency", has
    that in a true world of fact an object is defined
    by everything that it is not.

    Most people's account of meaning, or, the epistemological,
    is due associations in relations.

    Then, both accounts of birth and death often recount
    the "into the light", one into the world of sense
    the inchoate, the other out, also inchoate.

    So, something like "In The Light" from Led Zeppelin
    or Alanis Morrisette's "Isn't It Ironic?" makes for
    that when one has a theory of everything that's true
    then good music lyrically is generally profound,
    and otherwise it's personal accounts of often enough
    the perspectival, generously, or the fragmented (or insane).

    I'm Like a Bird / Seeds of Love


    Music's a good medium, for meaning.


    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From olcott@polcott333@gmail.com to sci.logic,sci.math,sci.lang,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon May 25 12:57:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 5/25/2026 11:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 05/25/2026 07:12 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 5/25/2026 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 25/05/2026 01:31, olcott wrote:
    On 5/24/2026 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 24/05/2026 02:34, polcott wrote:
    On 5/23/2026 5:41 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    Ah. What you have there is "Believes(you, L, x)", I believe. >>>>>>>

    No! It is all computed objective truth on the basis
    of stipulated objectively true atomic facts.

    What you call "stipulated objectively true atomic facts" may be

    Are things such as "cats" <are> "animals" where
    disagreement is error.

    The proposed service is not very useful if its scope is testricted
    to what everbody already knows.


    If it is not what somebody know then it is not knowledge.
    The key purpose of the system is to disseminate correct
    knowledge dividing well crafted lies from truth.

    objectively false and so can be whatever is computed from them
    even when the computation itelf is objetively valid.

    SEMANTIC TAUTOLOGIES are expressions of language that
    are proved necessarily true entirely on the basis of
    other expressions of language.

    In epistemology (theory of knowledge), a self-evident
    proposition is a proposition that is known to be true
    by understanding its meaning without proof.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-evidence

    A self-evident proposition is outside of the main scope of
    epistemology though it may have some marginal significance.


    That is flatly incorrect to the degree of calling a
    cat some kind of breed of dog. Self-evidence is the
    primary core of epistemology. It is the glue that
    holds semantics together.




    "Isn't it ironic?"


    The idea of "complementary duals" has for example that
    x = x and x = V \ x, where 'V' is the universe,
    and V \ x is an elementary embedding of the universe
    into itself making the most obvious sort of example
    of a resolution of the "Kunen inconsistency", has
    that in a true world of fact an object is defined
    by everything that it is not.

    Most people's account of meaning, or, the epistemological,
    is due associations in relations.


    I am trying to prevent the end of life on Earth through
    climate change hired liars. Can you stick to the point?
    Are you not intelligent enough to understand the dire
    threat of climate change?

    Then, both accounts of birth and death often recount
    the "into the light", one into the world of sense
    the inchoate, the other out, also inchoate.

    So, something like "In The Light" from Led Zeppelin
    or Alanis Morrisette's "Isn't It Ironic?" makes for
    that when one has a theory of everything that's true
    then good music lyrically is generally profound,
    and otherwise it's personal accounts of often enough
    the perspectival, generously, or the fragmented (or insane).

    I'm Like a Bird / Seeds of Love


    Music's a good medium, for meaning.


    --
    Copyright 2026 Olcott

    My 28 year goal has been to make
    "true on the basis of meaning expressed in language"
    reliably computable for the entire body of knowledge.
    The complete structure of this system is now defined.

    The entire body of knowledge expressed in language is
    comprised of two types of relations between finite strings:
    (a) *Axioms* Expressions of language that are stipulated to be true.

    My system bridges the analytic/synthetic distinction by
    expressly encoding all empirical "atomic facts" in a formal
    language such as CycL of the Cyc project.

    (b) *Inference Rules* Expressions of language that are semantically
    entailed syntactically from (a) and/or (b).
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Ross Finlayson@ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com to sci.logic,sci.math,sci.lang,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Mon May 25 20:54:10 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 05/25/2026 10:57 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 5/25/2026 11:48 AM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    On 05/25/2026 07:12 AM, olcott wrote:
    On 5/25/2026 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 25/05/2026 01:31, olcott wrote:
    On 5/24/2026 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 24/05/2026 02:34, polcott wrote:
    On 5/23/2026 5:41 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    Ah. What you have there is "Believes(you, L, x)", I believe. >>>>>>>>

    No! It is all computed objective truth on the basis
    of stipulated objectively true atomic facts.

    What you call "stipulated objectively true atomic facts" may be

    Are things such as "cats" <are> "animals" where
    disagreement is error.

    The proposed service is not very useful if its scope is testricted
    to what everbody already knows.


    If it is not what somebody know then it is not knowledge.
    The key purpose of the system is to disseminate correct
    knowledge dividing well crafted lies from truth.

    objectively false and so can be whatever is computed from them
    even when the computation itelf is objetively valid.

    SEMANTIC TAUTOLOGIES are expressions of language that
    are proved necessarily true entirely on the basis of
    other expressions of language.

    In epistemology (theory of knowledge), a self-evident
    proposition is a proposition that is known to be true
    by understanding its meaning without proof.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-evidence

    A self-evident proposition is outside of the main scope of
    epistemology though it may have some marginal significance.


    That is flatly incorrect to the degree of calling a
    cat some kind of breed of dog. Self-evidence is the
    primary core of epistemology. It is the glue that
    holds semantics together.




    "Isn't it ironic?"


    The idea of "complementary duals" has for example that
    x = x and x = V \ x, where 'V' is the universe,
    and V \ x is an elementary embedding of the universe
    into itself making the most obvious sort of example
    of a resolution of the "Kunen inconsistency", has
    that in a true world of fact an object is defined
    by everything that it is not.

    Most people's account of meaning, or, the epistemological,
    is due associations in relations.


    I am trying to prevent the end of life on Earth through
    climate change hired liars. Can you stick to the point?
    Are you not intelligent enough to understand the dire
    threat of climate change?

    Then, both accounts of birth and death often recount
    the "into the light", one into the world of sense
    the inchoate, the other out, also inchoate.

    So, something like "In The Light" from Led Zeppelin
    or Alanis Morrisette's "Isn't It Ironic?" makes for
    that when one has a theory of everything that's true
    then good music lyrically is generally profound,
    and otherwise it's personal accounts of often enough
    the perspectival, generously, or the fragmented (or insane).

    I'm Like a Bird / Seeds of Love


    Music's a good medium, for meaning.





    Why, you haven't solved a single paradox.

    The "ignore them away" won't work on usual problems
    also, yet there is that "ignore them away" works
    on sock-puppets, propagandists, worm-tongues, and so on.


    De Morgan doesn't need material implication to do logic
    and be logical, and scientific, neither does anyone else.


    Plainly, I don't see deliverance coming. Yet, I try
    not to overthink geo-engineering. About global warming,
    it's a usual idea to seed the upper atmosphere with dust,
    yet, really there's space colonization to get figured out,
    and to avoid the mistakes of the past with regards to
    the in-humanity.


    About actually making a theory so that humanity already
    has a theory that's constant, consistent, complete,
    and concrete, beyond usual accounts of logical paradox,
    so that we don't seem stupid or incapable to large,
    competent, conscientious, co-operative reasoners,
    there's "theatheory".



    Anyways, infinity is _in_ the theory, always _in_
    the theory, and always will be _in_ the theory,
    continously.



    Music is a sort of continuous-tone imagery.
    Some people just hear notes, yet, tone is distinct,
    much like the account of quantum mechanics, that
    it's a causal and continuous quantum mechanics.

    The potential fields are the real fields.




    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2
  • From Mikko@mikko.levanto@iki.fi to sci.logic,sci.math,sci.lang,comp.theory,comp.ai.philosophy on Tue May 26 10:50:25 2026
    From Newsgroup: comp.ai.philosophy

    On 25/05/2026 17:12, olcott wrote:
    On 5/25/2026 3:03 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 25/05/2026 01:31, olcott wrote:
    On 5/24/2026 3:08 AM, Mikko wrote:
    On 24/05/2026 02:34, polcott wrote:
    On 5/23/2026 5:41 PM, Ross Finlayson wrote:
    Ah. What you have there is "Believes(you, L, x)", I believe.


    No! It is all computed objective truth on the basis
    of stipulated objectively true atomic facts.

    What you call "stipulated objectively true atomic facts" may be

    Are things such as "cats" <are> "animals" where
    disagreement is error.

    The proposed service is not very useful if its scope is testricted
    to what everbody already knows.

    If it is not what somebody know then it is not knowledge.
    The key purpose of the system is to disseminate correct
    knowledge dividing well crafted lies from truth.

    Your example is so far from any well crefted lies that it rather
    suggests that the scope will be what everybody knows.

    objectively false and so can be whatever is computed from them
    even when the computation itelf is objetively valid.

    SEMANTIC TAUTOLOGIES are expressions of language that
    are proved necessarily true entirely on the basis of
    other expressions of language.

    In epistemology (theory of knowledge), a self-evident
    proposition is a proposition that is known to be true
    by understanding its meaning without proof.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-evidence

    A self-evident proposition is outside of the main scope of
    epistemology though it may have some marginal significance.

    That is flatly incorrect to the degree of calling a
    cat some kind of breed of dog. Self-evidence is the
    primary core of epistemology. It is the glue that
    holds semantics together.

    Can you support your claim with a reference to a textbook or some
    other respectable source or is the above just un example of a well
    crafted lie?
    --
    Mikko
    --- Synchronet 3.22a-Linux NewsLink 1.2