From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

Hi there,

Yes i know you are supposed to convert your ANS file to MSG using the ans2asc utility. Thats ok. It works. I do that.
But if you add @Codes to your ANS file, you will quickly lose how the layout will look like eventually. Or you will end up using a text editor afterwards, editing the ANS/MSG file to move stuff around and look at the result, repeat that until the layout looks the way it is supposed to look.

Currently i am using Moebius for Linux to edit the ANS files. There is IcyDraw, wich can handle MSG files directly (i guess), but it always is no WYSIWYG editing as soon as you want to use @Codes, but guessing, measuring, textediting afterwards.

Is there a better way? A way to edit Ansi's WYSIWYG with @Codes included?

Example: head.msg/head.ans IcyDraw/Moebius https://imgur.com/a/T9anJRs

Mindsurfer

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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

To: Mindsurfer
Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Mindsurfer to All on Tue Oct 21 2025 12:04 pm

Hi there,

Yes i know you are supposed to convert your ANS file to MSG using the ans2asc utility. Thats ok. It works. I do that.
But if you add @Codes to your ANS file, you will quickly lose how the layout will look like eventually. Or you will end up using a text editor afterwards, editing the ANS/MSG file to move stuff around and look at the result, repeat that until the layout looks the way it is supposed to look.

Currently i am using Moebius for Linux to edit the ANS files. There is IcyDraw, wich can handle MSG files directly (i guess), but it always is no WYSIWYG editing as soon as you want to use @Codes, but guessing, measuring, textediting afterwards.

Is there a better way? A way to edit Ansi's WYSIWYG with @Codes included?

Example: head.msg/head.ans IcyDraw/Moebius https://imgur.com/a/T9anJRs

One thing that helps is insuring that the raw @-code uses the same number of characters as the fixed/maximum length of the displayed string using fill characters (e.g. #'s) see https://wiki.synchro.net/custom:atcodes#formatting for an exmaple.

This works so long as the width of the string is less than or equal to the total length of the raw @-code. If you find an @-code where you'd prefer a shorter alternative alias, let me know and I'll see what I can do for ya.
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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

To: Digital Man
Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Digital Man to Mindsurfer on Tue Oct 21 2025 15:06:24

Currently i am using Moebius for Linux to edit the ANS files. There is
IcyDraw, wich can handle MSG files directly (i guess), but it always is no
WYSIWYG editing as soon as you want to use @Codes, but guessing, measuring,
textediting afterwards.
Example: head.msg/head.ans IcyDraw/Moebius https://imgur.com/a/T9anJRs

One thing that helps is insuring that the raw @-code uses the same number of characters as the fixed/maximum length of the displayed string using fill characters (e.g. #'s) see https://wiki.synchro.net/custom:atcodes#formatting for an exmaple.

Ok. i am using something like that already, for shortening the Time (AT)TIME-L5(AT) for example. I was reading about the formatting features and will use em. the @CODE|R#######@ could also come in handy for longer strings.

This works so long as the width of the string is less than or equal to the total length of the raw @-code. If you find an @-code where you'd prefer a shorter alternative alias, let me know and I'll see what I can do for ya.

Thanks for the alternative short-code offer!
I guess editing the ansi WYSIWYG when using @codes can work in some cases but is limited.

The only thing that comes to my mind as a workaround, is to use placeholders with the correct length and a script to replace the placeholders with the @codes in the ANS file afterwards. for example ~~~1 ~~~~~~~~2 ~3 as placeholders, to be replaced with the @code-l4@ (~~~1) etc.
It would be a bit of work to prepare a script with all placeholders and their @code replacement, but one could still edit the ANS file WYSIWYG.

Well, in a perfect world the ANSI Editor would be able to use its own placeholders and memorize a number of sets of position + color + length + @codes to be saved in the final version of the Ansi.

ok, thanks for the help! i will experiment with the formatting features and maybe my own placeholders + script.

Mindsurfer

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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

To: Mindsurfer
Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Mindsurfer to All on Tue Oct 21 2025 12:04 pm

is IcyDraw, wich can handle MSG files directly (i guess), but it
always is no WYSIWYG editing as soon as you want to use @Codes,
but guessing, measuring, textediting afterwards.

Is there a better way? A way to edit Ansi's WYSIWYG with @Codes
included?

you can use an ansi editor with ansimation mode and type in your @ codes
after you're done and then save it.

you could save your @ codes with their ansi positioning in a text file and cat it to the bottom of your completed .asc .msg or .ans file that's easy too. that's what i do but not everyone can be cool like me.
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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

To: Mindsurfer
Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Mindsurfer to Digital Man on Wed Oct 22 2025 01:43 am

Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Digital Man to Mindsurfer on Tue Oct 21 2025 15:06:24

Currently i am using Moebius for Linux to edit the ANS files. There is
IcyDraw, wich can handle MSG files directly (i guess), but it always is no
WYSIWYG editing as soon as you want to use @Codes, but guessing, measuring,
textediting afterwards.
Example: head.msg/head.ans IcyDraw/Moebius https://imgur.com/a/T9anJRs

One thing that helps is insuring that the raw @-code uses the same number of characters as the fixed/maximum length of the displayed string using fill characters (e.g. #'s) see https://wiki.synchro.net/custom:atcodes#formatting for an exmaple.

Ok. i am using something like that already, for shortening the Time (AT)TIME-L5(AT) for example. I was reading about the formatting features and will use em. the @CODE|R#######@ could also come in handy for longer strings.

This works so long as the width of the string is less than or equal to the total length of the raw @-code. If you find an @-code where you'd prefer a shorter alternative alias, let me know and I'll see what I can do for ya.

Thanks for the alternative short-code offer!
I guess editing the ansi WYSIWYG when using @codes can work in some cases but is limited.

The only thing that comes to my mind as a workaround, is to use placeholders with the correct length and a script to replace the placeholders with the @codes in the ANS file afterwards. for example ~~~1 ~~~~~~~~2 ~3 as placeholders, to be replaced with the @code-l4@ (~~~1) etc.

So what I was suggesting was that the @-code itself can be the "placeholder" (so long as the @-code is the same length as the expanded string).
--
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Sling Blade quote #10:
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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

To: MRO
Re: How do you edit msg files
By: MRO to Mindsurfer on Wed Oct 22 2025 00:36:42

Re: How do you edit msg files

is IcyDraw, wich can handle MSG files directly (i guess), but it always is
no WYSIWYG editing as soon as you want to use @Codes, but guessing,
measuring, textediting afterwards.

Is there a better way? A way to edit Ansi's WYSIWYG with @Codes included?

you can use an ansi editor with ansimation mode and type in your @ codes after you're done and then save it.

ok, i have to check that out. But you would have to keep a copy of the ANS file without the @codes ansimation, to be able to make changes to the layout later, right?

you could save your @ codes with their ansi positioning in a text file and cat it to the bottom of your completed .asc .msg or .ans file that's easy too. that's what i do but not everyone can be cool like me.

No WYSIWYG editing yet, but a really good compromise, as you can simply append it at the end after editing/saving the ANSI file.

Good idea! i will give it a try. Thanks for that!

Mindsurfer

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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

To: Digital Man
Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Digital Man to Mindsurfer on Tue Oct 21 2025 22:55:44

So what I was suggesting was that the @-code itself can be the "placeholder" (so long as the @-code is the same length as the expanded string). --

Thank you. I got that.
So, not so good for displaying node number wich would be 1 digit only. Just as an example where it would not work, when there is not the space in the layout.

Short @codes like @NN@ would take 4+ chars in the layout display of the ansi editor. So that is the shortest it had to be to use @codes directly as the placeholder within the ansi layout. Maybe +1 empty space left and right of it, depending where it sits in the layout.

Everything that has some more characters in the expanded final display can be done with the recommended @code|R###@ without any further trickery.

So depending on the complexity and length of the respective @code output, i can choose between @code|R###@ for example, the positioning of the @codes via ansi esc sequence at the end of the layout. or a file containing the @codes with ansi esc sequence for positioning that i will merge to the layout ansi.

Mindsurfer

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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

To: Mindsurfer
Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Mindsurfer to MRO on Wed Oct 22 2025 11:59 am

you can use an ansi editor with ansimation mode and type in your @ codes after you're done and then save it.

ok, i have to check that out. But you would have to keep a copy of
the ANS file without the @codes ansimation, to be able to make
changes to the layout later, right?

no, if you make changes you turn off ansimation mode. then you turn it on
and type in your @ codes. that will stop text being pushed over because
it's being put in after the reset of the ansi code.
you can use dosbox and thedraw for a good editor with ansi mode.

file and cat it to the bottom of your completed .asc .msg or .ans
file that's easy too. that's what i do but not everyone can be
cool like me.

No WYSIWYG editing yet, but a really good compromise, as you can
simply append it at the end after editing/saving the ANSI file.

all our ansi editors are wysiwyg. you need to understand what you are doing when you put an @ code in there you have something that can be big or small
and push text around. that's why rob suggested you use those @ codes with padding.

it's not complicated stuff, just use dosbox with thedraw like i said.
you can also do a lot of cool stuff with cursor positioning.
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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

El 21/10/25 a las 09:04, Mindsurfer (VERT/FUNTOPIA) escribió:

Hi there,

Yes i know you are supposed to convert your ANS file to MSG using the ans2asc utility.  Thats ok. It works. I do that.
But if you add @Codes to your ANS file, you will quickly lose how the
layout will look like eventually. Or you will end up using a text editor afterwards, editing the ANS/MSG file to move stuff around and look at
the result, repeat that until the layout looks the way it is supposed to look.

Currently i am using Moebius for Linux to edit the ANS files. There is IcyDraw, wich can handle MSG files directly (i guess), but it always is
no WYSIWYG editing as soon as you want to use @Codes, but guessing, measuring, textediting afterwards.

Is there a better way? A way to edit Ansi's WYSIWYG with @Codes included?

Example: head.msg/head.ans IcyDraw/Moebius https://imgur.com/a/T9anJRs

Mindsurfer

I use syncdraw
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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

To: Mindsurfer
Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Mindsurfer to Digital Man on Wed Oct 22 2025 12:24 pm

Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Digital Man to Mindsurfer on Tue Oct 21 2025 22:55:44

So what I was suggesting was that the @-code itself can be the "placeholder" (so long as the @-code is the same length as the expanded string). --

Thank you. I got that.
So, not so good for displaying node number wich would be 1 digit only. Just as an example where it would not work, when there is not the space in the layout.

2 digit node numbers are not uncommon and 3 is even possible, but I get your point. You won't ever have a 4 character/digit node number.

Short @codes like @NN@ would take 4+ chars in the layout display of the ansi editor. So that is the shortest it had to be to use @codes directly as the placeholder within the ansi layout. Maybe +1 empty space left and right of it, depending where it sits in the layout.

3 characters (e.g. @x@) is the short conceivable @-code, and you could have a 3 digit node number, at least theoretically, so maybe that'd work for that case.

Everything that has some more characters in the expanded final display can be done with the recommended @code|R###@ without any further trickery.

So depending on the complexity and length of the respective @code output, i can choose between @code|R###@ for example, the positioning of the @codes via ansi esc sequence at the end of the layout. or a file containing the @codes with ansi esc sequence for positioning that i will merge to the layout ansi.

Unfortunately, the ANSI cursor positioning trick isn't really going to work for non-ANSI terminals, so I wouldn't encourage it.
--
digital man (rob)

This Is Spinal Tap quote #24:
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From Newsgroup: alt.bbs.synchronet

To: Digital Man
Re: How do you edit msg files
By: Digital Man to Mindsurfer on Wed Oct 22 2025 12:35:44

Unfortunately, the ANSI cursor positioning trick isn't really going to work for non-ANSI terminals, so I wouldn't encourage it. --

Good to know! So for compatibility reasons it would be better to just "print" the @codes into the line itself and avoid the positioning via esc sequences at the end of the file.

But.. I have found an editor that does exactly what i need.
With icy_Draw i can define "Tags" that consist of the preview in the editor layout, the @code, length, alignment, method (inLine or GotoXY) etc.
So using the icy_Draw Tag Tool, it will look exactly as it will look in the BBS later within the editor. wysiwyg so to say :)

Icy_Draw still needed a little fix within the export to msg function, wich Mike was so kind to do this evening. So with the freshly build AppImage, Icy_Draw now does exactly what I originally envisioned when I began exploring the possible options for this task. =)

Thanks for all explaining and helping out!

Mindsurfer

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