Anyone here have experience or comments on using the Signal app?

It boasts having end-to-end encryption.

I heard that the Signal developer, Moxie Marlinspike, was interviewed on the Joe Rogan podcast. I checked it out - I still have about an hour of the show to finish. Personally, I found the interviewed guest hard to understand and maintain interest in listening to him. What saves the interview is the humour and animated dialog by Joe.
--- SBBSecho 3.12-Linux
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757.2)

Hi August,

On 2020-12-29 11:10:16, you wrote to All:

Anyone here have experience or comments on using the Signal app?

I have it on my phone, but hardly ever use it, because very few people I know also have it. And when you do want to send them a message they also have whatsapp, and you don't remember they also have signal...

Usage wise it's just like Whatsapp or Telegram. There's not much difference between them...

It boasts having end-to-end encryption.

That's why I installed it.

And then there also is 'Wire' messenger, which is supposed to be also pretty good regarding privacy, but I use it even less...

Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

August Abolins wrote to All <=-

Anyone here have experience or comments on using the Signal app?

I've been using it for a few years. I've had some problems with the group chats.
I've recommended it to several family members and friends, and most still use it,
though 3 have stopped using it.

If someone leaves a group while another member is not connected (through wifi or
mobile data), the group doesn't get updated. In my case, this resulted in a friend
who had left the group kept receiving messages I sent to the group. But he didn't
receive messages from any other member, only me.

I don't know if it's still an issue.

There's another weird thing where anyone can add anyone to a group. You can't ban
someone from a group, only block them individually. But I think that's changed now
so there can be a single "admin".

https://signal.org/blog/group-links/

Otherwise I like it. For me, call quality is better over Signal than my regular

cell carrier. I can send images and it uses the wifi very reliably. I can send a
quick voice message. It appears as a regular text to the other user in the chat,
and he just needs to click "play".

I think another downside is that if I'm not connected to the Internet and someone
sends me a message on Signal, it won't get rerouted as a regular text message though my cell carrier.

I haven't done much video-conferencing with it so can't say anything about it.

It's similar to Whatsapp, but Whatsapp is owned by Facebook now and I prefer, when
available, to use the "open" alternatives.

--
-Andy


... 2 + 2 = 5 for extremely large values of 2.
-+- MultiMail/Linux v0.52

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-5
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Hello Wilfred!

** On Tuesday 29.12.20 - 21:12, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to August Abolins:

Anyone here have experience or comments on using the Signal
app?

I have it on my phone, but hardly ever use it, because very
few people I know also have it. And when you do want to
send them a message they also have whatsapp, and you don't
remember they also have signal...

WhatsApp is owned by FB now, isn't it? If so, I'd drop it.

It also seems that the user environment is so saturated with alternate/similar choices that people either don't care or don't
want to change from what they are current using to connect to
their existing list of contacts.

And then there is the matter of privacy. Nobody seems to care -
unless of course their email accounts get hacked or their private
pics are somehow copied all over the internet.

I have roped in one family friend onto Telegram. We both feel it
is a better platform than FB's messenger that clearly has a
reputation that it monitors content. We have never had a "live"
chat between us (our online schedules are so different) so
Telegram's private/live chat and its exploding message feature
has never been tested. But Signal sounds better.

Does Signal have a desktop app similar to what Telegram offers?
(I wouldn't ask that if I had internet access at this time. But I
have to wait until Jan 4 to get my mobile data back, or I have to
wait until I can connect to the DSL at my shop tomorrow morning
even to send this.)

I like Telegram's offerings across ALL devices, especially the
desktop. The desktop version permits much better editing
performance.

I have had some extended personal exchanges on FB Messenger
*before* I realized that it would probably be good to not
continue and share info that way.

It boasts having end-to-end encryption.

That's why I installed it.

Telegram has the same claim (now) doesn't it?

And then there also is 'Wire' messenger, which is supposed
to be also pretty good regarding privacy, but I use it even
less...

Never heard of Wire. I'm a bit curious. I will have to try and
remember to research that - after Jan 4 ofcourse. :(


--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.48
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Hi August,

On 2020-12-30 22:14:00, you wrote to me:

I have it on my phone, but hardly ever use it, because very
few people I know also have it. And when you do want to
send them a message they also have whatsapp, and you don't
remember they also have signal...

WhatsApp is owned by FB now, isn't it? If so, I'd drop it.

Afaik it is. And would be something I would avoid as much as possible. Except I have no real choic in the matter, because I'm required to have it on my (company) phone...

It also seems that the user environment is so saturated with alternate/similar choices that people either don't care or don't
want to change from what they are current using to connect to
their existing list of contacts.

And then there is the matter of privacy. Nobody seems to care -
unless of course their email accounts get hacked or their private
pics are somehow copied all over the internet.

I think privacy awareness is getting better. But people still choose the easy way. Instead of trying to convince others to use the better option, they just use what's already available/installed/used by most people.

I have roped in one family friend onto Telegram. We both feel it
is a better platform than FB's messenger that clearly has a
reputation that it monitors content. We have never had a "live"
chat between us (our online schedules are so different) so
Telegram's private/live chat and its exploding message feature
has never been tested. But Signal sounds better.

Me and my 2 brothers use it to communicate amongst eachother. There are some coworkers that have it available, but most of the time still use whatsapp to start a conversation. I try to stear that to Telegram sometimes, but not with great success... :-/

Does Signal have a desktop app similar to what Telegram offers?

I had to look it up myself. There are clients for several platforms: windows, mac, linux (only debian based). For my distribution the client is in the application repositories, but not for the older version I'm currently using.
So not as good as Telegram, but almost as good...

(I wouldn't ask that if I had internet access at this time. But I
have to wait until Jan 4 to get my mobile data back, or I have to
wait until I can connect to the DSL at my shop tomorrow morning
even to send this.)

So you sent this message from the shop?

I like Telegram's offerings across ALL devices, especially the
desktop. The desktop version permits much better editing
performance.

I like it too!

I have had some extended personal exchanges on FB Messenger
*before* I realized that it would probably be good to not
continue and share info that way.

I only have a fake FB account to be able to view links to FB you sometimes get. I have never used it to communicate with anyone I know.

It boasts having end-to-end encryption.

That's why I installed it.

Telegram has the same claim (now) doesn't it?

Afaik: Yes.

And then there also is 'Wire' messenger, which is supposed
to be also pretty good regarding privacy, but I use it even
less...

Never heard of Wire. I'm a bit curious. I will have to try and
remember to research that - after Jan 4 ofcourse. :(

On their frontpage they claim: "The most secure collaboration platform"... And clicking further you can read:


End-to-end encrypted:

All communication through Wire is secured with end-to-end encryption - messages, conference calls, files.

Independently audited:

Wire is the most extensively publicly audited collaboration and communication software on the market.

Multi-device messaging:

One account works on up to 8 devices. Messages are encrypted for each device.

Trusted conversations:

Verify each conversation partner's device fingerprints for maximum security.

Forward and backward secrecy:

New encryption keys are used for each message, so a compromised key has minimal impact.

100% open source:

Wire's source code is available on GitHub for anyone to verify, modify and improve.
Code on GitHub


But they also seem to be a commercial platform now. Didn't know that, maybe that has changed...?


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Wilfred!

** On Thursday 31.12.20 - 18:07, Wilfred van Velzen wrote to August Abolins:

WhatsApp is owned by FB now, isn't it? If so, I'd drop it.

Afaik it is. And would be something I would avoid as much
as possible. Except I have no real choic in the matter,
because I'm required to have it on my (company) phone...

Ah.. then that's a different story. But why can't your company
[1] influence a move to the less evasive Telegram or Signal for
example? They could broadcast an annoucement that a phase-over to
one of the other apps is encouraged and a full migration is
expected to take by a specif date.. OR.. [2] introduce new policy
to use Telegram/Signal for its new customers/clients?

But the whole thing is probably one of those situations were the
1st-use scenario wins. Therefore, why bother with the tedious
hassle of installing something else and have to reestablish the
contacts from another app - especially for exisiting customers.

I think privacy awareness is getting better. But people
still choose the easy way. Instead of trying to convince
others to use the better option, they just use what's
already available/installed/used by most people.

That reminds me when the various chat programs like ICQ, Jabber,
iChat, Pidgin, AIM, etc.. were all present and different people
chose to use a specific chat program for specific reasons they
had. I encountered the same split of different chat programs with
select contacts. But I think it was Pidgin that helped to
consolidate the other chat accounts into one program. That was
sweet.

I have roped in one family friend onto Telegram. We both feel it
is a better platform than FB's messenger..

Me and my 2 brothers use it to communicate amongst
eachother. There are some coworkers that have it available,
but most of the time still use whatsapp to start a
conversation. I try to stear that to Telegram sometimes,
but not with great success... :-/

That means, they probably have other contacts that only have
whatsapp and don't wish to switch between running apps too often.

It's an app clutter nightmare.

Does Signal have a desktop app similar to what Telegram
offers?

I had to look it up myself. There are clients for several
platforms: windows, mac, linux (only debian based). For my
distribution the client is in the application repositories,
but not for the older version I'm currently using. So not
as good as Telegram, but almost as good...

Thank you. I eventually visited the Signal pages too. Unlike
Telegram, it forces the user to install the app on a phone first
before you can use the service.

I thought Telegram's approach was better: install any app (even
desktop version, which I did) that you want, and the registration
takes place with an SMS to a cellphone number that you have
handy. Later, I used the webby version from my Blackberry, and
then later after that, I installed the app for the phone.

The latter step made me wonder "How did I do that?" ..I mean, I
can't use GooglePlay to get the app - so how did I manage to
install that thing? (GooglePlay used to work BTW but some
upgrade to the core shopping app broke something). Then I
remembered.. I simply fetched the .APK version from another pc,
sent the file to the Blackberry, and "launched" the installation
that way.

It's same install issue with Signal. Since I have to install it
on the phone to even qualify to try it, I need to have the .APK
version. I think I found the legit file as version 5.0.8 here:

https://signal.org/android/apk/

..but the SHA256 that I get doesn't match what they report on
the site:

"You can verify the signing certificate on the APK matches this
SHA256 fingerprint:

29:F3:4E:5F:27:F2:11:B4:24:BC:5B:F9:D6:71:62:C0 EA:FB:A2:DA:35:AF:35:C1:64:16:FC:44:62:76:BA:26

But I guess the SHA256 above is for the "certificate", not the
file itself?

Why can't everyone just stick with MD5 or SHA256 for the "files"
and avoid having us to find other apps to read certificates!

Meanwhie, it would seem that I have to install the whole Android
APK Developer kit *just* to be able to check the certificate of
an app.

(I wouldn't ask that if I had internet access at this time.
But I have to wait until Jan 4 to get my mobile data back..

So you sent this message from the shop?

It turns out that there was a problem with the mobile servers.
Before that, I checked my data usage (from a DSL connected pc)
and I still had about 200MB data left. That would be plenty for
nntp/FTN messaging. Usually, the mobile service sends me a
reminder via SMS that I am out of data - but I wasn't getting
that message!

But, later that night, I *did* get "out of data" reminder and the
usual option to top up - which I did. So.. for $5, I have the
privilege of having 200MB until I need more.

But another problem persists. The $5 top up + 200MB is supposed
to allow me to cruise at 3G speeds. But the best that I am
getting now is 36Kbps!

This shit is way overpriced.

I like Telegram's offerings across ALL devices, especially
the desktop. The desktop version permits much better
editing performance.

I like it too!

It's especially nice to be able to adjust the colours and the
backgrounds. Does Signal have that?

I only have a fake FB account to be able to view links to
FB you sometimes get. I have never used it to communicate
with anyone I know.

That is smart. I actually have another FB presence too. But that
only happened in the early days when I didn't know what I was
going to do with FB. Later, flipping between the accounts had
some advantages. ;)

Never heard of Wire. I'm a bit curious. I will have to
try and remember to research that - after Jan 4 ofcourse.
:(

On their frontpage they claim: "The most secure
collaboration platform"... And clicking further you can
read:

[snip]

But they also seem to be a commercial platform now. Didn't
know that, maybe that has changed...?

Thanks for that. I took a visit to wire.com The pricing menu
doesn't describe a free option. .: it seems to be purely
commercial. Seems to be intended for privacy between business
clients or teams. Too much $ for the average independent.

The wiki write-up was interesting.. "previous Skype employees,
..developed from Signal protocols"

Enough for now and upload this fine message at 36Kbps speeds! LOL
--
../|ug

--- OpenXP 5.0.48
* Origin: (2:221/1.58)

Hi August,

On 2021-01-01 10:48:00, you wrote to me:

WhatsApp is owned by FB now, isn't it? If so, I'd drop it.

Afaik it is. And would be something I would avoid as much
as possible. Except I have no real choic in the matter,
because I'm required to have it on my (company) phone...

Ah.. then that's a different story. But why can't your company
[1] influence a move to the less evasive Telegram or Signal for
example? They could broadcast an annoucement that a phase-over to
one of the other apps is encouraged and a full migration is
expected to take by a specif date.. OR.. [2] introduce new policy
to use Telegram/Signal for its new customers/clients?

They probably can, but they don't want to...

But the whole thing is probably one of those situations were the
1st-use scenario wins. Therefore, why bother with the tedious
hassle of installing something else and have to reestablish the
contacts from another app - especially for exisiting customers.

Indeed.

I think privacy awareness is getting better. But people
still choose the easy way. Instead of trying to convince
others to use the better option, they just use what's
already available/installed/used by most people.

That reminds me when the various chat programs like ICQ, Jabber,
iChat, Pidgin, AIM, etc.. were all present and different people
chose to use a specific chat program for specific reasons they
had. I encountered the same split of different chat programs with
select contacts. But I think it was Pidgin that helped to
consolidate the other chat accounts into one program. That was
sweet.

Or the VHS vs Betamax thing! ;)

It's same install issue with Signal. Since I have to install it
on the phone to even qualify to try it, I need to have the .APK
version. I think I found the legit file as version 5.0.8 here:

https://signal.org/android/apk/

..but the SHA256 that I get doesn't match what they report on
the site:

"You can verify the signing certificate on the APK matches this
SHA256 fingerprint:

29:F3:4E:5F:27:F2:11:B4:24:BC:5B:F9:D6:71:62:C0 EA:FB:A2:DA:35:AF:35:C1:64:16:FC:44:62:76:BA:26

But I guess the SHA256 above is for the "certificate", not the
file itself?

Why can't everyone just stick with MD5 or SHA256 for the "files"
and avoid having us to find other apps to read certificates!

MD5 Is no longer considered secure, as a hash algorithm!

But another problem persists. The $5 top up + 200MB is supposed
to allow me to cruise at 3G speeds. But the best that I am
getting now is 36Kbps!

This shit is way overpriced.

Indeed.

I like Telegram's offerings across ALL devices, especially
the desktop. The desktop version permits much better
editing performance.

I like it too!

It's especially nice to be able to adjust the colours and the
backgrounds. Does Signal have that?

I don't know. As I said, I hardly ever used it...


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)