Andre Robitaille wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

Then I'd argue you probably don't need extra. After a little over two years into radio, I've used something from every section of the test except sat, and even that knowledge I've used in discussions with
people.

I've been a ham for 23 years now and recently upgraded to Extra in June
2019. I haven't actually needed to use anything from the Extra test ... but
I have always used my General knowledge. The Extra is full of a lot of
radio and electronics theory which is good if you're building everything yourself. I don't though I do build wire antennas.

I can tell you in no uncertain terms, every antenna you buy or built, *maybe* with the exception of a loop or metal vertical, is going to
need some antenna knowledge to get the best performance out of it.

I'll respectfully disagree with you on that. I built my first antenna, a
G5RV Junior, to "specs", put it on the air, and used it for four years until
I had to move. I worked everywhere from Alaska to Chile to Japan with it
... and I didn't know anything about antennas at the time.

I have bought several antennas and not needed to do anything to them to get optimum performance. I installed them according to instructions and they
work just fine. My current antenna, a 10-80 meter end-fed half wave with a
9:1 balun on it, was designed by a professional antenna designer. All I did was mount it. I have a 40 year old Mosley RV-4C vertical (10-40 meter with
the additional 80 meter coil) that worked just fine by following
instructions to mount it. I've had a SuperAntennas MP-1, Hustler vertical,
and a full Buddipole Deluxe kit--I still use that--and never any issues
outside of following instructions.

I have operated with plenty of people of all sorts, including a bunch
with extra class, and about 80% of them have damn near no idea what they're doing with antennas, setup, and/or operating. I promise that if you learn what's in extra and put it into practice as you need it,
you'll find value in it.

I've done the same but it all depends on how much you want to bother to know about it. Many don't bother with it though if you take the time to attempt
the Extra license, you tend to want to know more.

Etienne passed with a couple wrong answers. I did worse. He was eleven
at the time. :-/

I passed my Extra last June (2019) at the age of 47. I did a "cram and
exam" session and passed just fine.

I didn't bother to ask if I missed any questions or how many I did miss if
I did. All that mattered to me was that I passed.

I'm also an ARRL-accredited VE and I can tell you that the reason most don't get their Extra is because they're happy with what they have and don't want
to work any harder to get it. If someone is actively trying to get their Extra, they'll get it, one way or the other.

73,
Sean KS4TD



-- Sean

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THe main reason for it is trying not to remember which frequencies I
can use as tech and which I can't. It also means that if I'm
eventually going to put down stupid amounts of money for an
antenna and radio setup, I'll be able to get one that
covers all the frequencies, not wasting any, and not having
to upgrade later.

If you're putting "stupid amounts of money" into ham radio, you need to re-examine why you're doing it. I have but a humble ICOM IC-718 matched to
a myantennas.com 10-80m EFHW ... about $800 invested into that setup ... and
I can work the world just fine with it, even in rotten conditions. I'm
doing a lot more digital work these days though I prefer SSB.

I guess it's not a matter of not needing it, but not having
to needing to remember it when we have plenty of instant
online resources. It'd probably be quicker for me to look
up some forumla calculator on Google than to perform it
myself.

You would be surprised at how much you can absorb over the years.

I really don't think I'm ever going to need stuff like
"What is a typical range for tropospheric propagation of
microwave signals?"

Comes in handy sometimes. Last night there was some sort of propagation
path from the East Coast to the Midwest. I was working Kansas stations like there was no tomorrow ... which is highly unusual for me due to the
direction that my wire antenna is "aimed".

I used hamstudy.org to get me through my General. I really
have no idea how I passed my Technician. I think it was
more luck than skill.

Give yourself some credit. You may have actually learned something and just not realized it.

Remember that a good deal of memory comes from "drill and practice". It's
one of the reasons I love to contest: contesting uses a lot of skills and they're a good chance to hone them.

I rarely use DX spotting in contests. It's more fun to do the "hunt and pounce" method for me that way.

73,
Sean KS4TD


-- Sean

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Guess you're not interested in mesh networking yet. :)

I'm definitely not but I know what it is ... and have helped set up an
amateur radio mesh network before with my technical skills for a friend.

I'm really not interested in VHF/UHF, just mainly HF. I do like SSB a lot
and do use digital modes for ragchewing.

73,
Sean KS4TD


-- Sean

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Andre Robitaille wrote to Nigel Reed <=-

Meaning that general has access to every band that extra does. So any radio or antenna you buy to cover band X will be accessible whether you are a general or an extra.

That is technically true but Extra does give you additional bandwidth which
is nice during contesting weekends. Also, I have worked a lot of Region 1
DX that a US amateur won't have access to unless you're an Extra. That's really the main reason I got my Extra was to work that rarer DX.

Same mostly goes for antennas, though as a general you'd have a
different center of band to tune the antenna.

Antennas are a non-sequitur in this though it's the antenna that makes the
QSO, not the radio. :)

73,
Sean KS4TD


-- Sean

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The advantage operating "internet radio" (much to the angst of the purists)

And the minute the Internet goes down, you're screwed.

I'm not a purist but after nearly 40 years in IT, I've learned better than
to trust both computers or the Internet.

While I enjoy tinkering with Echolink and Winlink, my real interest is
analog HF. The Internet is teneous at best and unreliable at worst.

Just my opinion, of course, but that's why I like amateur radio: there's something for everyone.

73,
Sean KS4TD


-- Sean

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1) Full amateur radio privileges, although on HF, you still have to
stay 3 kc's away from the band edges, to avoid going "out of band".
There is 500 kilohertz of HF spectrum not available to General class licensees...and 250 kilohertz of HF spectrum not available to Advanced Class licensees.

You forgot to mention the much larger availablity of DX stations from other regions that only Extras in Region 2 have access to.

2) The shorter 2x1 or 1x2 callsigns...*IF* you're lucky enough to
get one.

Good luck. There's nothing in region 4 but honestly, that's really
overrated to me.

3) If traveling overseas, you can get Extra Class privileges with
the CEPT license.

That's something I didn't think about.

4) As a Volunteer Examiner, you can give and grade ALL the exams.

That too.

5) Snob appeal (hi hi).

Oh, I've seen Technicians with plenty of snob appeal. When I first got my license in 1997, I was berated for being an "appliance operator" because I didn't know CW. There's still that attitude today...

I still catch hell from these crusty "CW since 1950" operators that tell me that if you don't use CW, you're not a true amateur radio operator.

73,
Sean KS4TD


-- Sean

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Sean,

And the minute the Internet goes down, you're screwed.

Well, I have a Verizon Mi-Fi...but I have too many health issues to worry about being available in a disaster.

I'm not a purist but after nearly 40 years in IT, I've learned better
than to trust both computers or the Internet.

Especially with the Windows VistaUp Virus: Renders all 16-bit programs useless. <G>

While I enjoy tinkering with Echolink and Winlink, my real interest is analog HF. The Internet is teneous at best and unreliable at worst.

And HF propagation lately has been horrid.

Just my opinion, of course, but that's why I like amateur radio:
there's something for everyone.

Agreed.

Daryl, WX4QZ

... Shin: A device for finding furniture in the dark.
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Sean,

You forgot to mention the much larger availablity of DX stations from other regions that only Extras in Region 2 have access to.

Well, considering the last time I operated HF was nearly 10 years ago,
what did you expect??

2) The shorter 2x1 or 1x2 callsigns...*IF* you're lucky enough to
get one.

Good luck. There's nothing in region 4 but honestly, that's really overrated to me.

I liked the 2x2 one better.

3) If traveling overseas, you can get Extra Class privileges with
the CEPT license.

That's something I didn't think about.

But, with COVID-19, traveling overseas is a bust. At least we don't
have to do social distancing in the shack.

4) As a Volunteer Examiner, you can give and grade ALL the exams.

That too.

The last year they did a hamfest in Little Rock, one ham passed the
brand new Extra...with all 12 graphics. He not only passed it, but he
ACED it!! One VE growled "I want to take him outside, and beat the
[crap] out of him!! <G>

5) Snob appeal (hi hi).

Oh, I've seen Technicians with plenty of snob appeal. When I first got
my license in 1997, I was berated for being an "appliance operator" because I didn't know CW. There's still that attitude today...

That is true.

I still catch hell from these crusty "CW since 1950" operators that
tell me that if you don't use CW, you're not a true amateur radio operator.

As far as the FCC is concerned, if you have a valid ham radio license,
you're a ham radio operator.

Daryl, WX4QZ

... If your head's in the sand, your butt's a prime target!!
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Sean,

If you're putting "stupid amounts of money" into ham radio, you need to re-examine why you're doing it. I have but a humble ICOM IC-718
matched to a myantennas.com 10-80m EFHW ... about $800 invested into
that setup ... and I can work the world just fine with it, even in
rotten conditions. I'm doing a lot more digital work these days though
I prefer SSB.

That ICOM IC-718 is the basic no frills get your feet wet in HF rig. That's what we had in that HF Railroad Mobile station, noted in the video on my QRZ profile.

Give yourself some credit. You may have actually learned something and just not realized it.

The electronics and math weren't my forte', but I found the other stuff fascinating.

I rarely use DX spotting in contests. It's more fun to do the "hunt
and pounce" method for me that way.

Contesting was never my forte' -- but as you said, there's something in
the hobby for everybody.

Daryl, WX4QZ

... Are you SURE it's plugged in?
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Sean,

I'm definitely not but I know what it is ... and have helped set up an amateur radio mesh network before with my technical skills for a
friend.

A group out in El Paso used the MESH network for communications during
one of their public service events.

Daryl, WX4QZ

... Archaeologist: A person whose career lies in ruins.
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