• Nodes location. Funny statistics.

    From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dmitry Protasoff on Mon Aug 4 15:54:53 2025
    Hello Dmitry,

    On Saturday August 02 2025 23:33, you wrote to me:

    I actually followed your advice and added the functionality you
    suggested. Also moved the script to a VM with IPv6. Check out the new results below.

    Great!

    Analyzing IPv6 adoption from DNS records...

    [..]

    IPv6 Adoption Analysis (DNS Records):
    Note: 100% accuracy based on actual DNS responses
    Hostnames with A records only (IPv4): 503 (72.1%)
    Hostnames with AAAA records only (IPv6): 4 (0.6%)
    Hostnames with both A and AAAA (dual-stack): 143 (20.5%)
    Total unique hostnames analyzed: 698
    IPv6 readiness: 147/698 hostnames (21.1%)

    The list of IPv6 nodes that I weekly publish in Fidonews presently has 101 entries. Significantly less than the 147 mentioned above. I should mention that my list only contains nodes with whom I have managed to establish an IPv6 binkp connect.

    A significant number of nodes advertises IPv6 connectivity via the nodelist but a request to connect does not succeed. When I run into such a situation I try to contact the sysops to help correct the problem. Sometimes this results in the problem being solved but ever so often the sysop does not responds at all and the status quo remains. I have no idea how these entries with uncontactable nodes arise in the first place. It is not limited to IPv4, there are nodes that wrongly advertise IPv4 capabililty as well but he fact remains that most of the uncontactable IPv6 nodes respond to an attempt to connect via IPv4. My guess is that most of the sysops that wrongly advertise IPv6 connectivity are not even aware of the situation.

    That's one of the problems with Dual Stack. Ever so often a failure of just one of the two methods can remain unnoticed for quit some time.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Michiel van der Vlist on Mon Aug 4 16:55:38 2025
    Hey Michiel!

    On Mon, Aug 04 2025 08:54:53 -0500, you wrote:

    The list of IPv6 nodes that I weekly publish in Fidonews presently
    has 101 entries. Significantly less than the 147 mentioned above. I
    should mention that my list only contains nodes with whom I have
    managed to establish an IPv6 binkp connect.

    Keep in mind also, that currently developed BBS softwares (Mystic and Synchronet, for example) have options to listen on IPv4, IPv6, or both. It could just be the fact that they've set it up to listen on IPv4 only, maybe not even knowing that they have IPv6 capability. Or, they may only want to connect via IPv4 because they have no way of setting any kind of firewall rules for IPv6 (crappy ISP issued router, or something). Finally, they may just not know what the hell they're doing. ;)

    Then, on older BBS softwares some kind of front-end needs to be ran to answer incoming telnet connections. Some of these front-ends may not support IPv6. If they do, then there would be a separate configuration option to listen via IPv6 also.. which may not have ever been done if said sysop configured all of this 20 years ago and left it alone.

    I'd be willing to bet a majority of those 46 nodes just have no idea they have IPv6, or don't know how to properly configure it (so they have an AAAA record, but it's not setup to listen on certain ports).

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Nick Boel on Mon Aug 4 16:57:23 2025
    Hey Nick!

    On Mon, Aug 04 2025 16:55:38 -0500, you wrote:

    Then, on older BBS softwares some kind of front-end needs to be ran
    to answer incoming telnet connections.

    Not sure why I said telnet, as we were discussing binkp. But the same scenarios apply.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Karel Kral@2:423/39 to Nick Boel on Tue Aug 5 09:14:58 2025
    Hello Nick!

    04 Aug 25 16:57, you wrote to you:

    Then, on older BBS softwares some kind of front-end needs to be ran
    to answer incoming telnet connections.

    Not sure why I said telnet, as we were discussing binkp. But the same scenarios apply.

    There is some certain synergy between BBS and fidonet - but is not the same. What was discussed is fidonet (nodelist, mailer reachability).

    Karel

    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20240209
    * Origin: Plast DATA (2:423/39)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Aug 5 10:39:54 2025
    Hi Dmitry,

    On 2025-08-01 15:04:20, you wrote to me:

    Node 4:801/201 - Clube_da_Insonia_BBS
    Sysop: Glauber_Rodrigues
    Location: Santo_Andre_SP
    Hostname: bbs.conf.eti.br -> 194.5.159.64
    Country: The Netherlands (NL)
    Region: Drenthe, City: Meppel
    ISP: Hostinger International Limited

    I looked into this one. It's a bit strange.

    The geoiplookup gives the same result as above.

    The whois has multiple countries:

    inetnum: 194.5.159.0 - 194.5.159.255
    netname: HOSTINGER-HOSTING
    country: NL
    org: ORG-HIL8-RIPE
    admin-c: HN1858-RIPE
    tech-c: HN1858-RIPE
    status: ASSIGNED PA
    mnt-by: de-kis2-1-mnt
    mnt-by: MNT-HOSTINGER
    mnt-lower: MNT-HOSTINGER
    mnt-routes: MNT-HOSTINGER
    mnt-domains: MNT-HOSTINGER
    created: 2019-01-02T15:55:28Z
    last-modified: 2022-10-18T05:43:54Z
    source: RIPE
    geofeed: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/hostinger/geofeed/main/geofeed.csv
    geoloc: 52.692547 6.190908

    organisation: ORG-HIL8-RIPE
    org-name: Hostinger International Limited
    org-type: OTHER
    descr: Hostinger International Ltd.
    address: 61 Lordou Vyronos Lumiel Building, 4th floor
    address: 6023
    address: Larnaca
    address: CYPRUS
    phone: +37064503378
    fax-no: +37064503378
    abuse-c: HA2755-RIPE
    mnt-ref: de-kiservices-1-mnt
    mnt-by: de-kiservices-1-mnt
    mnt-ref: de-kis2-1-mnt
    created: 2017-11-30T14:12:01Z
    last-modified: 2019-01-02T15:52:53Z
    source: RIPE # Filtered

    person: Hostinger NOC
    address: Hostinger International Ltd.
    address: 61 Lordou Vyronos
    address: Lumiel Building, 4th floor
    address: 6023
    address: Larnaca
    address: CYPRUS
    phone: +37064503378
    nic-hdl: HN1858-RIPE
    mnt-by: HN19812-MNT
    created: 2013-12-02T20:17:12Z
    last-modified: 2024-07-09T12:29:29Z
    source: RIPE # Filtered

    When you lookup this hoster, it is headquartered in Lithuania, though it has a registered office in Cyprus (as seen above).

    When you look at their website it says it has multiple datacenters around the world, but it doesn't mention the Netherlands.

    So that's what I meant with whois is not reliable as a geo location tool. But maybe it's the only source available, for some or most ip addresses?


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Tue Aug 5 10:32:22 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Monday August 04 2025 16:55, you wrote to me:

    The list of IPv6 nodes that I weekly publish in Fidonews presently
    has 101 entries. Significantly less than the 147 mentioned above. I
    should mention that my list only contains nodes with whom I have
    managed to establish an IPv6 binkp connect.

    Keep in mind also, that currently developed BBS softwares (Mystic and Synchronet, for example) have options to listen on IPv4, IPv6, or
    both. It could just be the fact that they've set it up to listen on
    IPv4 only, maybe not even knowing that they have IPv6 capability. Or,
    they may only want to connect via IPv4 because they have no way of
    setting any kind of firewall rules for IPv6 (crappy ISP issued router,
    or something).

    All of that is possible. It is even possible that a node may make /outgoing/ IPv6 connections without the sysop being aware of it. Keep in mind however that these figures are derived from host names with AAAA records /advertised/ in the nodelist.

    Finally, they may just not know what the hell they're doing. ;)

    Possibly... ;-)

    I'd be willing to bet a majority of those 46 nodes just have no idea
    they have IPv6,

    Then where do the AAAA records come from? Those AAAA records do not fall out of the sky. AFAIK it always requires a premeditated affort from the owner of the host name.

    or don't know how to properly configure it (so they have an AAAA
    record, but it's not setup to listen on certain ports).

    Did I mention that when I come across such a situation I always try to contact the sysop in order to try to help hem/her fix the problem? The vast majority of these attempt to contact the sysop fails. They do not respond at all. :(


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dmitry Protasoff on Tue Aug 5 18:20:02 2025
    Hello Dmitry,

    On Saturday August 02 2025 23:33, you wrote to me:

    Hostnames with AAAA records only (IPv6): 4 (0.6%)

    I have 3 in my list of IPv6 nodes.

    10 2:280/5006 Kees van Eeten Native KPN f INO4
    61 2:460/5858 Stas Mishchenkov Native KCT/he.net f INO4
    71 2:221/10 Tommi Koivula Native Hetzner f INO4

    Who is number 4?


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Michiel van der Vlist on Tue Aug 5 17:11:49 2025
    Hey Michiel!

    On Tue, Aug 05 2025 03:32:22 -0500, you wrote:

    Then where do the AAAA records come from? Those AAAA records do not
    fall out of the sky. AFAIK it always requires a premeditated affort
    from the owner of the host name.

    Does every DNS provider make you manually setup an AAAA record? Or do some of them possibly have a default one in place just so that IPv6 /works/ out of the box?

    Did I mention that when I come across such a situation I always try
    to contact the sysop in order to try to help hem/her fix the problem?

    Yes, you did.

    The vast majority of these attempt to contact the sysop fails. They
    do not respond at all. :(

    So maybe they have it halfway setup, then.. and then decided they're too busy to pay attention to their services.

    I don't know, I've exhausted all of my ideas, and also realized I was trying to rationalize what others do entirely too hard on this. ;)

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Dmitry Protasoff@2:5001/100.1 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Aug 6 00:31:17 2025
    Hello, Wilfred!

    Tuesday August 05 2025 10:39, you wrote to me:

    When you lookup this hoster, it is headquartered in Lithuania, though
    it has a registered office in Cyprus (as seen above).

    When you look at their website it says it has multiple datacenters
    around the world, but it doesn't mention the Netherlands.

    https://support.hostinger.com/en/articles/1583267-where-are-hostinger-servers-located

    Europe: France, Germany, Lithuania, United Kingdom, *Netherlands*
    Asia: India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore
    North America: Arizona, Massachusetts, New York
    South America: Brazil



    Best regards,
    dp.

    --- GoldED+/OSX 1.1.5-b20250409
    * Origin: All is good in St. John's Wood (2:5001/100.1)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Nick Boel on Wed Aug 6 07:55:46 2025

    Hello Nick!

    05 Aug 25 17:11, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    Does every DNS provider make you manually setup an AAAA record? Or do
    some of them possibly have a default one in place just so that IPv6 /works/ out of the box?

    I really hope so ..
    if not I would not choose that DNS provider.
    A record A or AAAA should only be setup by the user who controls de DNS.

    If I want to have a DNS name whatever.com and I do not configure it, it is registered but does
    not go to any address. Hence which is ok and wanted and meant to be.

    Dennis


    ... Step one: Panic. Step two: Blame IT.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Dmitry Protasoff on Wed Aug 6 09:13:05 2025
    Hi Dmitry,

    On 2025-08-06 00:31:17, you wrote to me:

    When you lookup this hoster, it is headquartered in Lithuania, though
    it has a registered office in Cyprus (as seen above).

    When you look at their website it says it has multiple datacenters
    around the world, but it doesn't mention the Netherlands.

    https://support.hostinger.com/en/articles/1583267-where-are-hostinger-servers-
    located

    Europe: France, Germany, Lithuania, United Kingdom, *Netherlands*
    Asia: India, Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore
    North America: Arizona, Massachusetts, New York
    South America: Brazil

    Indeed... So you looked a bit deeper. ;-)

    It's not on their "front" page for vps: https://www.hostinger.com/vps-hosting


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Dennis Slagers on Wed Aug 6 09:23:13 2025
    Hi Dennis,

    On 2025-08-06 07:55:46, you wrote to Nick Boel:

    Does every DNS provider make you manually setup an AAAA record? Or do
    some of them possibly have a default one in place just so that IPv6
    /works/ out of the box?

    I really hope so ..
    if not I would not choose that DNS provider.
    A record A or AAAA should only be setup by the user who controls de DNS.

    If I want to have a DNS name whatever.com and I do not configure it, it is registered but does not go to any address. Hence which is ok and wanted and
    meant to be.

    There might be some package deals where you buy a VPS with a Hostname, where the DNS for the hostname is preconfigured to point to the VPS...


    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Wed Aug 6 10:20:58 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Tuesday August 05 2025 17:11, you wrote to me:

    Then where do the AAAA records come from? Those AAAA records do not
    fall out of the sky. AFAIK it always requires a premeditated affort
    from the owner of the host name.

    Does every DNS provider make you manually setup an AAAA record? Or do
    some of them possibly have a default one in place just so that IPv6 /works/ out of the box?

    In the past, in the IPv4 only age, some providers here offered customers xxxx.provider.nl as a host name linked to their static IPv4 address. xxxx was for he customer to choose. That practise stopped over a decade ago and I do not see how that could be extended to IPv6 to "work out of the box". For IPv6 there usually is k\just one IP address and it points to the to of the customer's NAT. That would not work "out of the box" for running a server because the customer still had to configure a port forwward and possibly puncj hols in firewalls but it could be a start. Fo IPv6 there is not a single IP adres for the whole system. There is no way the provider would know what IPv6 address to proconfigure for it to "work out of the box".

    I am still waiting for a sysops to report that their provider actually provides such a "service".

    So the question "if the sysop is unaware that he/she has IPv6, where do these AAAA records come from" remains unanswered.

    [..]

    The vast majority of these attempt to contact the sysop fails. They
    do not respond at all. :(

    So maybe they have it halfway setup, then.. and then decided they're
    too busy to pay attention to their services.

    Possibly. So these nodes have become zombie nodes for all intents an puposes?

    I don't know, I've exhausted all of my ideas, and also realized I was trying to rationalize what others do entirely too hard on this. ;)

    So have I. I have no idea what we can do to remedie the situation.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Aug 6 11:11:52 2025
    Hi Michiel,

    On 2025-08-06 10:20:58, you wrote to Nick Boel:

    MvdV> In the past, in the IPv4 only age, some providers here offered
    MvdV> customers xxxx.provider.nl as a host name linked to their static
    MvdV> IPv4 address. xxxx was for he customer to choose. That practise
    MvdV> stopped over a decade ago and I do not see how that could be
    MvdV> extended to IPv6 to "work out of the box". For IPv6 there usually is
    MvdV> k\just one IP address and it points to the to of the customer's NAT.
    MvdV> That would not work "out of the box" for running a server because
    MvdV> the customer still had to configure a port forwward and possibly
    MvdV> puncj hols in firewalls but it could be a start. Fo IPv6 there is
    MvdV> not a single IP adres for the whole system. There is no way the
    MvdV> provider would know what IPv6 address to proconfigure for it to
    MvdV> "work out of the box".

    MvdV> I am still waiting for a sysops to report that their provider actually
    MvdV> provides such a "service".

    MvdV> So the question "if the sysop is unaware that he/she has IPv6, where do these
    MvdV> AAAA records come from" remains unanswered.

    For a VPS the mac address is known by the VPS provider. If they also provide the host name, they can pre configure an IPv6 AAAA record, that is based on the mac address.

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Aug 6 13:33:07 2025
    Hello Wilfred,

    On Wednesday August 06 2025 11:11, you wrote to me:

    MvdV>> So the question "if the sysop is unaware that he/she has IPv6,
    MvdV>> where do these AAAA records come from" remains unanswered.

    For a VPS the mac address is known by the VPS provider. If they also provide the host name, they can pre configure an IPv6 AAAA record,
    that is based on the mac address.

    I suppose it is technically possible. That does not mean it actually happens. If it does, I doubt it will explain more than a very tiny fraction of the non responses found by Dmitry.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Dennis Slagers on Wed Aug 6 17:11:15 2025
    Hey Dennis!

    On Wed, Aug 06 2025 00:55:46 -0500, you wrote:

    If I want to have a DNS name whatever.com and I do not configure it,
    it is registered but does not go to any address. Hence which is ok
    and wanted and meant to be.

    I guess what I meant was, if one does indeed configure their A record, do some providers possibly have some kind of catch all, default AAAA record that just points to A in hopes there's an IPv6 address also?

    I understand if one wants to point their DNS to a specific AAAA record, they can do it themselves. I'm just wondering with not many people even knowing if they have IPv6 (or not even knowing what it is) in a dual stack situation, if it might be automatically enabled somehow by the registrar.

    When IPv6 compatible routers first started coming out, there was no filtering and/or port forwarding. If you enabled IPv6, it was completely open. I don't think it took very long for them to wise up and address that, but I bet there's still people using those old routers.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Michiel van der Vlist on Wed Aug 6 17:20:06 2025
    Hey Michiel!

    On Wed, Aug 06 2025 03:20:58 -0500, you wrote:

    In the past, in the IPv4 only age, some providers here offered
    customers xxxx.provider.nl as a host name linked to their static IPv4 address. xxxx was for he customer to choose. That practise stopped
    over a decade ago and I do not see how that could be extended to IPv6
    to "work out of the box". For IPv6 there usually is k\just one IP
    address and it points to the to of the customer's NAT. That would not
    work "out of the box" for running a server because the customer still
    had to configure a port forwward and possibly puncj hols in firewalls
    but it could be a start. Fo IPv6 there is not a single IP adres for
    the whole system. There is no way the provider would know what IPv6
    address to proconfigure for it to "work out of the box".

    So what you're saying here is, there is no possibly way someone could advertise an AAAA record without them manually configuring it at their DNS provider?

    So the question "if the sysop is unaware that he/she has IPv6, where
    do these AAAA records come from" remains unanswered.

    That's the same question I'm hung up on then.

    Possibly. So these nodes have become zombie nodes for all intents an puposes?

    I imagine there's quite a few. Did the most recent report from Dmitry show about 25% of Fidonet participants are dead wood? ;)

    So have I. I have no idea what we can do to remedie the situation.

    I'm not so sure we can.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Wilfred van Velzen on Wed Aug 6 17:21:24 2025
    Hey Wilfred!

    On Wed, Aug 06 2025 04:11:52 -0500, you wrote:

    For a VPS the mac address is known by the VPS provider. If they also provide the host name, they can pre configure an IPv6 AAAA record,
    that is based on the mac address.

    With this in mind, I have heard quite a few sysops mention using a VPS over the years. So, if this is a thing, maybe our question is finally answered!

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Wilfred van Velzen on Thu Aug 7 07:29:16 2025

    Hello Wilfred!

    06 Aug 25 09:23, you wrote to me:

    If I want to have a DNS name whatever.com and I do not configure
    it, it is registered but does not go to any address. Hence which
    is ok and wanted and meant to be.

    There might be some package deals where you buy a VPS with a Hostname, where the DNS for the hostname is preconfigured to point to the VPS...

    yeah, but than its an hostname you do not control. And it should not be used as such.

    I had VPS like h283484.stratoserver.net for example but such hostname would I not suggest to
    use for ie. a mention in the nodelist.

    but alas I understand that in above way it is possible that a party already configured the
    IPv6 record as well although it might not be configured on the VPS ;)

    Dennis


    ... It's a layer 8 problem.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 07:41:34 2025

    Hello Nick!

    06 Aug 25 17:11, you wrote to me:

    I guess what I meant was, if one does indeed configure their A record,
    do some providers possibly have some kind of catch all, default AAAA record that just points to A in hopes there's an IPv6 address also?

    What Wilfred was stating and I overlooked:
    when you buy a VPS you can have an IPv4 and IPv6 for you reserved.
    they would than tell you that h28588.stratoserver.net is ie. 185.50.1.12 and 2010:383 etc.. for Ipv6
    normally just for your own 'admin' access so that you do not have to remember the addresses
    and the machine is than reachable for you. However as you are not in control of that DNS
    you would never use that (normally) DNS name for your usage to the public.

    You would go to a registrar to say: mynicedomain.com and configure it in ie. cloudflare with
    fido.mynicedomain has the I record 185.50.1.12 and/or when you want to have IPv6 the IPv6 of your vhost

    Of course: if you do enable IPv6 and it is availalbe on that machine it would not work on your mynicedomain.com but it would work on h28588.stratoserver, but as nobody knows that it would probably
    not being used (or for scanners who scan such a VPS)

    I understand if one wants to point their DNS to a specific AAAA
    record, they can do it themselves. I'm just wondering with not many
    people even knowing if they have IPv6 (or not even knowing what it is)
    in a dual stack situation, if it might be automatically enabled
    somehow by the registrar.

    A hoster could do that. A registrar or DNS provider cannot do that. The owner of a domain within a DNS provider can do that which is than (in my example stratoserver) who could do that.

    When IPv6 compatible routers first started coming out, there was no filtering and/or port forwarding. If you enabled IPv6, it was
    completely open. I don't think it took very long for them to wise up
    and address that, but I bet there's still people using those old
    routers.

    Yes and that has changed (proably) to if IPv6 is enabled the firewall drops all until you open ports

    IPv6 is still niche .. so it would not directly be available on OLD routers. Mainly they only do support IPv4 (been there done that as OEM/ODM manufacturer for end-user consumer market)

    There are ISP's who give users routers with dual stack, but as I am not using that hardware I do not know if IPv6 is enabled by default.

    But hey open ports is asking for trouble so they would drop every incoming connection until it is configured otherwise

    Dennis


    ... The cloud is just someone else's computer.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 07:51:26 2025

    Hello Nick!

    06 Aug 25 17:20, you wrote to Michiel van der Vlist:

    So what you're saying here is, there is no possibly way someone could advertise an AAAA record without them manually configuring it at their
    DNS provider?

    You can advertise what you want but without configuring it as their DNS provider it has no use

    If I told Michiel that my IPv6 was ::1 and he would use that for his IPv6 lists .. mwoah ;)
    it does not exist for my fido.domain.com but I can tell I am using it.

    Probably I than get a lesson from Michiel about it ..

    So the question "if the sysop is unaware that he/she has IPv6,
    where do these AAAA records come from" remains unanswered.

    That's the same question I'm hung up on then.

    Indeed.
    But .. if you had it in use for ie. 2 years and you do not use fido anymore and you forget about it
    or your IPv6 has been changed cause sometimes that happens and you forget about your DNS..
    than your DNS has an advertised IPv6 but does not work anymore as you are unaware that your IPv6 has been changed.


    Dennis


    ... Yes, the email bounced. No, I won't fix it.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Wilfred van Velzen@2:280/464 to Dennis Slagers on Thu Aug 7 07:59:37 2025
    Hi Dennis,

    On 2025-08-07 07:29:16, you wrote to me:

    but alas I understand that in above way it is possible that a party already configured the IPv6 record as well although it might not be configured on the VPS ;)

    VPS's mostly come preconfigured with a working IPv4 and IPv6 address, that is known to the VPS provider, in my experience...

    Bye, Wilfred.

    --- FMail-lnx64 2.3.2.4-B20240523
    * Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 12:04:57 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Wednesday August 06 2025 17:11, you wrote to Dennis Slagers:

    If I want to have a DNS name whatever.com and I do not configure
    it, it is registered but does not go to any address. Hence which is
    ok and wanted and meant to be.

    I guess what I meant was, if one does indeed configure their A record,
    do some providers possibly have some kind of catch all, default AAAA record that just points to A in hopes there's an IPv6 address also?

    What do you mean by "points to A" in this context?

    I understand if one wants to point their DNS to a specific AAAA
    record, they can do it themselves. I'm just wondering with not many
    people even knowing if they have IPv6 (or not even knowing what it is)
    in a dual stack situation, if it might be automatically enabled
    somehow by the registrar.

    I think Dennis and Wilfred already commented on that.

    When IPv6 compatible routers first started coming out, there was no filtering and/or port forwarding. If you enabled IPv6, it was
    completely open. I don't think it took very long for them to wise up
    and address that, but I bet there's still people using those old
    routers.

    I doubt that the use of those very old routers that do not have a firewall and have it reject all unsilliced income is more that a very few exceptions. IIRC they are over two decades old.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 12:13:19 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Wednesday August 06 2025 17:20, you wrote to me:

    Hey Michiel!

    On Wed, Aug 06 2025 03:20:58 -0500, you wrote:

    So what you're saying here is, there is no possibly way someone could advertise an AAAA record without them manually configuring it at their
    DNS provider?

    after having read Dennis'and WIlfred's comments let me say that I have yet to come across a syosp - or non sysop for that matter- who claims "I have no idea how that AAAA record got into my host name, but it certainly wasn't me doing it".

    So the question "if the sysop is unaware that he/she has IPv6,
    where do these AAAA records come from" remains unanswered.

    That's the same question I'm hung up on then.

    And it still is not answered to my satisfaction.

    Possibly. So these nodes have become zombie nodes for all intents
    an puposes?

    I imagine there's quite a few. Did the most recent report from Dmitry
    show about 25% of Fidonet participants are dead wood? ;)

    Yes, and I am not surprised.

    But here we are confronted with a next level issue. We see systems that are up and running, the binkd server answers (IPv4 only) and *.PKTs are accepted. And there it ends. A more general problem not limited to IPv6. I call them zombie systems. They appear to be alive but the sysop is ... not responding.

    So have I. I have no idea what we can do to remedie the situation.

    I'm not so sure we can.

    Indeed.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Thu Aug 7 14:59:44 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Wednesday August 06 2025 17:21, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:

    For a VPS the mac address is known by the VPS provider. If they
    also provide the host name, they can pre configure an IPv6 AAAA
    record, that is based on the mac address.

    With this in mind, I have heard quite a few sysops mention using a VPS over the years. So, if this is a thing, maybe our question is finally answered!

    I don't believe it until I actually come across a sysop who claimes this happened to him/her.



    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Dennis Slagers on Thu Aug 7 16:26:51 2025
    Hello Dennis,

    On Thursday August 07 2025 07:41, you wrote to Nick Boel:

    IPv6 is still niche ..

    I disagree. While it is not yet the dominant protocol, it hovers just under 50% global use. It is not a niche.

    so it would not directly be available on OLD routers. Mainly they only
    do support IPv4 (been there done that as OEM/ODM manufacturer for
    end-user consumer market)

    How long ago was that?

    There are ISP's who give users routers with dual stack, but as I am
    not using that hardware I do not know if IPv6 is enabled by default.

    The vast majority of consumers use a router from their provider and the vast majority of those routers support IPv6 and have it enabled by default. Your provider's router certainly does.

    But hey open ports is asking for trouble so they would drop every
    incoming connection until it is configured otherwise

    Of course.

    In this part of the world providers must allow their clients to use their own modem/routers. By EU directive. Only a small minority (< 1%) does it. But those that do, are not users that are satisfied with old stuff that does not support IPv6. The vast majority of routers now for sale support IPv6.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Dennis Slagers on Thu Aug 7 17:22:09 2025
    Hey Dennis!

    On Thu, Aug 07 2025 00:51:26 -0500, you wrote:

    Indeed. But .. if you had it in use for ie. 2 years and you do not
    use fido anymore and you forget about it or your IPv6 has been
    changed cause sometimes that happens and you forget about your DNS..
    than your DNS has an advertised IPv6 but does not work anymore as you
    are unaware that your IPv6 has been changed.

    This sounds much more plausible, then. IPv6 could have been configured at one point (as you say), and then they bought a new router, or anything that could cause their IPv6 address to change, and never realized to change their DNS settings.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Michiel van der Vlist on Thu Aug 7 17:33:50 2025
    Hey Michiel!

    On Thu, Aug 07 2025 05:04:57 -0500, you wrote:

    What do you mean by "points to A" in this context?

    Well, please excuse me as I haven't had to configure my DNS for years since my v4 and v6 addresses don't change unless I change hardware. But, if I remember right, when I first setup my domain, I remember there being "@" in a bunch of settings (for example "www.pharcyde.org" pointed to "@") .. which now that I'm writing it out I think this had more to do with aliases and CNAMEs, and am confusing that with this discussion. :|

    I doubt that the use of those very old routers that do not have a
    firewall and have it reject all unsilliced income is more that a very
    few exceptions. IIRC they are over two decades old.

    I rocked an Asus AC68U up until only a few years ago. I'm fairly certain with the default firmware on that router you could enable IPv6, but you couldn't configure anything to do with it. It may have even warned you that enabling it would open it completely to the public. Of course, when I originally realized that I changed firmware, until it ran it's course and I eventually upgraded to an AX88U Pro.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Aug 8 08:19:20 2025

    Hello Michiel!

    07 Aug 25 16:26, you wrote to me:

    IPv6 is still niche ..

    I disagree. While it is not yet the dominant protocol, it hovers just under 50% global use. It is not a niche.

    For end-users it is. (imho).

    so it would not directly be available on OLD routers. Mainly they
    only do support IPv4 (been there done that as OEM/ODM
    manufacturer for end-user consumer market)

    How long ago was that?

    that would have been 14 years ago ;) If we talk about old routers I do not talk about routers
    <5 year <grin>

    The vast majority of consumers use a router from their provider and
    the vast majority of those routers support IPv6 and have it enabled by default. Your provider's router certainly does.

    I'm in bridge mode ;) but yep they offer it by DHCP request indeed ;)


    Dennis


    ... We ran out of bandwidth because you streamed cat videos.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Dennis Slagers@2:280/2060 to Nick Boel on Fri Aug 8 08:23:18 2025

    Hello Nick!

    07 Aug 25 17:22, you wrote to me:

    Indeed. But .. if you had it in use for ie. 2 years and you do not
    use fido anymore and you forget about it or your IPv6 has been
    changed cause sometimes that happens and you forget about your
    DNS.. than your DNS has an advertised IPv6 but does not work
    anymore as you are unaware that your IPv6 has been changed.

    This sounds much more plausible, then. IPv6 could have been configured
    at one point (as you say), and then they bought a new router, or
    anything that could cause their IPv6 address to change, and never
    realized to change their DNS settings.

    Even more simpler: I have IPv6 by DHCP, some time ago I configured IPv6 and it was working fine
    my uplink and where I crash my netmail can work on IPv6.

    All working fine unattended. Suddenly I got a netmail from my uplink telling me that since a few days he sees some error not able to deliver mail by IPv6 but only IPv4 ..

    Issue whas that after a firmware upgrade or something else I do not remember IPv6 was not
    well activated on the router anymore and I had to apply / restart the router.

    Not being made aware could potentially caused my AAAA record being active but never be responsive anymore.
    Hence it could be that I could call with IPv6 to my uplink but never got mail back on it only IPv4.

    Even now:
    I changed my subscription yesterday with my IPS.
    they made some network changes. my router does not tell me my IPv6 anymore, but it is still working
    In this situation my router should need another reboot probably.
    or wait until its DHCP is expired (maybe) ..

    Dennis


    ... Outsourcing the problem to the next guy.
    --- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20250408
    * Origin: ---- BOFH: Problem solved, user deleted. (2:280/2060)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Nick Boel on Sat Aug 9 10:57:31 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Thursday August 07 2025 17:33, you wrote to me:

    I doubt that the use of those very old routers that do not have a
    firewall and have it reject all unsilliced income is more that a
    very few exceptions. IIRC they are over two decades old.

    I rocked an Asus AC68U up until only a few years ago. I'm fairly
    certain with the default firmware on that router you could enable
    IPv6, but you couldn't configure anything to do with it. It may have
    even warned you that enabling it would open it completely to the
    public. Of course, when I originally realized that I changed firmware, until it ran it's course and I eventually upgraded to an AX88U Pro.

    Bottom line: That router without a firewall is no longer is use.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)
  • From Nick Boel@1:154/700 to Michiel van der Vlist on Sun Aug 10 10:17:05 2025
    Hey Michiel!

    On Sat, Aug 09 2025 03:57:31 -0500, you wrote:

    I rocked an Asus AC68U up until only a few years ago. I'm fairly
    certain with the default firmware on that router you could enable
    IPv6, but you couldn't configure anything to do with it. It may have
    even warned you that enabling it would open it completely to the
    public. Of course, when I originally realized that I changed firmware,
    until it ran it's course and I eventually upgraded to an AX88U Pro.

    Bottom line: That router without a firewall is no longer is use.

    Correct, in my case. But how many others out there might still be using a router like that. If they aren't broken (in their eyes), many don't bother upgrading until they absolutely have to.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... Sarcasm: because beating people up is illegal.
    --- SBBSecho 3.29-Linux
    * Origin: _thePharcyde telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin) (1:154/700)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555.1 to Nick Boel on Sun Aug 10 17:46:16 2025
    Hello Nick,

    On Sunday August 10 2025 10:17, you wrote to me:

    Bottom line: That router without a firewall is no longer is use.

    Correct, in my case. But how many others out there might still be
    using a router like that. If they aren't broken (in their eyes), many don't bother upgrading until they absolutely have to.

    We don't know how many are still in use, we can only guess and my guess is: "very few". As there is nothing I can do about it, I am not willing to make it my problem. If somenone thinks he/she is smart enough to run his or her own router but is stupid enough to not update two decades old stuff, it is their problem. I can fight ignorance, not stupidity.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
    * Origin: Michiel's laptop (2:280/5555.1)
  • From Tommi Koivula@2:221/6.600 to Michiel van der Vlist on Fri Aug 15 21:14:40 2025
    Hi Michiel.

    05 Aug 25 18:20, you wrote to Dmitry Protasoff:

    I have 3 in my list of IPv6 nodes.

    10 2:280/5006 Kees van Eeten Native KPN f INO4
    61 2:460/5858 Stas Mishchenkov Native KCT/he.net f INO4
    71 2:221/10 Tommi Koivula Native Hetzner f INO4

    Who is number 4?

    There is a strong candidate in Sweden...

    ===
    Parsing nodelist file /bbs/nodelist/NODELIST.NDL
    Nodelist for Friday, August 15, 2025 -- Day number 227 parsed, 928 IP-nodes processed (0.022 sec)
    Calling '2:20/0'. Call time: '0000-2400' UTC.
    Now is: 1811 UTC.
    eljaco.se, 24555
    Calling 2:20/0 (2001:9b1:10d:77::52b:24555)
    OPT CRAM-MD5-c4da1bbbea11fcde74fa757076fd51ee
    SYS Felten's Sharp System
    ZYZ Bj�rn Felten
    LOC S�ve, Sweden
    NDL 115200,TCP,BINKP
    TIME Fri, 15 Aug 2025 20:11:11 +0200
    VER binkd/1.1a-65/Win32 binkp/1.1
    address: 2:203/0@fidonet
    address: 2:20/0@fidonet
    address: 2:2/2@fidonet
    address: 2:203/2@fidonet
    OPT EXTCMD
    2001:9b1:10d:77::52b - Ok.
    Session with 2:20/0 done.
    Calling 2:20/0 (94.254.14.141:24555)
    error (Connection timed out)
    ===

    'Tommi

    ---
    * Origin: FPoint (2:221/6.600)
  • From Michiel van der Vlist@2:280/5555 to Tommi Koivula on Sat Aug 16 16:43:54 2025
    Hello Tommi,

    On Friday August 15 2025 21:14, you wrote to me:

    I have 3 in my list of IPv6 nodes.

    10 2:280/5006 Kees van Eeten Native KPN f INO4
    61 2:460/5858 Stas Mishchenkov Native KCT/he.net f INO4
    71 2:221/10 Tommi Koivula Native Hetzner f INO4

    Who is number 4?

    There is a strong candidate in Sweden...

    [..]

    address: 2:203/0@fidonet
    address: 2:20/0@fidonet
    address: 2:2/2@fidonet
    address: 2:203/2@fidonet
    OPT EXTCMD
    2001:9b1:10d:77::52b - Ok.
    Session with 2:20/0 done.
    Calling 2:20/0 (94.254.14.141:24555)
    error (Connection timed out)

    Probably a temporary glitch. I connect without problems. Ipv4 and IPv6.


    Cheers, Michiel

    --- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
    * Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)