On 07/22/16, Matthew Munson said the following...

I am fearful Trump will be unpredictable like former California Govrnor Schwartzenegger.

I doubt Trump will do what Obama did which is acting like a pansy and paying Iran 400 million dollars.

- Gregory

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On 08/05/16, Tim Richardson said the following...

I am fearful Trump will be unpredictable like former California Govrnor Schwartzenegger.

Then vote for Hillary.

She will appoint at least two, maybe three U.S. Supreme Court justices... which means you can kiss a lot of your rights goodbye; like the first and fourth Amendments.

You can also kiss the Second Amendment goodbye. Clinton's Supreme Court appointees will find an `interpretation' of the Constitution that completely alters the Second Amendment's actual meaning to eliminate the `individual right to keep and bear arms.

She does that and I can promise you there will be a revolution that will make the civil war, look like a folk dance.

- Gregory

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On 09-29-16, Gregory Deyss said to Tim Richardson:

@MSGID: <57EE0FC0.56.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@REPLY: <57A4F126.47.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@TZ: 40f0
On 08/05/16, Tim Richardson said the following...

I am fearful Trump will be unpredictable like former California

Govrnor TR> > Schwartzenegger.

Then vote for Hillary.

She will appoint at least two, maybe three U.S. Supreme Court justices... which means you can kiss a lot of your rights goodbye; like the first and fourth Amendments.

You can also kiss the Second Amendment goodbye. Clinton's Supreme Court appointees will find an `interpretation' of the Constitution that completely alters the Second Amendment's actual meaning to eliminate the `individual right to keep and bear arms.

She does that and I can promise you there will be a revolution that will GD>make the civil war, look like a folk dance.

If one occurs there will be many a democrat politician dangling at the end
of a noose from a street light yard arm. And Clinton and her whole family
will probably be among the first to `swing'.

Several `republican' turncoats will get their turn early on as well. Boehner and Ryan come to mind.

In the Clinton's case I suspect they will get strung up by their own Secret Service guards. The Secret Service can't be looking forward to the Clinton
clan coming back to the White House.




===
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On 10-01-16, Lee Lofaso said to Tim Richardson:

@MSGID: <57EF19EC.59.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@TZ: 0078
Hello Tim,

Several `republican' turncoats will get their turn early on as well.

Boehner

and Ryan come to mind.

The Republican Party is self-destructing. It has become the party
of old ideas. A party that clings to an ideology that has long been LL>discredited and discarded, having a majority in the house only due
to gerrymandering and a very slim majority in the senate that it has
no hopes of retaining.

In the Clinton's case I suspect they will get strung up by their own

Secret

Service guards. The Secret Service can't be looking forward to the

Clinton TR> clan coming back to the White House.

Clinton has to win in order to stay out of jail.

Hussein will issue blanket pardons to those connected with any of her
scandals, including her, as he goes out the door.

She's not going to jail. Ever.




===
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Hello Tim,

Several `republican' turncoats will get their turn early on as well.

Boehner

and Ryan come to mind.

The Republican Party is self-destructing. It has become the party
of old ideas. A party that clings to an ideology that has long been discredited and discarded, having a majority in the house only due
to gerrymandering and a very slim majority in the senate that it has
no hopes of retaining.

In the Clinton's case I suspect they will get strung up by their own

Secret

Service guards. The Secret Service can't be looking forward to the Clinton clan coming back to the White House.

Clinton has to win in order to stay out of jail. And the electoral
college math is in her favor. Not due to immigration, but rather
inner migration. States that were blue are becoming bluer. States
that were red are become redder. States that were purple are going
blue. States that were pink are going red. The migration patterns
become obvious when comparing the presidential elections of 1988
and 2012.

Can Trump win? The Blue Wall is going to be mighty tough to break
through. Maybe even impossible, depending on how much teflon coating
the Clinton forces use to paint it.

I am sure the secret service is going to love having Clinton's
grandkids around the White House. Of course, the same applies to
having Trump's grandkids around the White House. Not to mention
his own 8-year-old kid who is not quite ready to have kids of his
own.

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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I am fearful Trump will be unpredictable like former California Govrnor Schwartzenegger.

I doubt Trump will do what Obama did which is acting like a pansy and paying Iran 400 million dollars.

Yeah, I live in a state where even if I wanted to vote for Trump,
Clinton is going to win anyways.
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The Republican Party is self-destructing. It has become the party
of old ideas. A party that clings to an ideology that has long been discredited and discarded, having a majority in the house only due
to gerrymandering and a very slim majority in the senate that it has
no hopes of retaining.

Ironically, in my state, the gerrymandering that flipped it from electing mostly Democrats to mostly Republicans was done by Democrats hoping to get
rid of the 1 or 2 Republican Reps that kept getting elected. The first election year after they did that, every district but maybe one went Republican, including at least one that had not done so in decades. Although they got one of those districts back, the one or two districts back before
that that were Republican have remainded so for the past 20 year since, as
have the others they lost.

Local Democrats get really, really angry when you use the word gerrymander around them. Really, really angry.

---
* SLMR 2.1a * "Your eyes need diapers." - Ralph Wiggum


--- GTMail 1.26
# Origin: CCO BBS * 502/875-8938 * capcity2.synchro.net (1:2320/105.0)
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I doubt Trump will do what Obama did which is acting like a pansy and p Iran 400 million dollars.

Yeah, I live in a state where even if I wanted to vote for Trump,
Clinton is going to win anyways.

Yeah I wish would take New York, he took every county here accept Manhattan.
In fact I attended a rally in Albany, NY. It was awesome. When we were
walking out it was incredible the amount of people was like what you would
see at Times Square on New Years Eve.
Of course there were black protesters, they were calling us Nazi's. I shouted back. "Women, if I was a Nazi, you would be dead by now!"

What state are you from?

- Gregory

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The advantage Trump has is his supporters are very loyal. They
will turn out for him on election day, giving him a chance to win.

I really hope your right Lee, you hear people say I'm so afraid of Trump wondering what he will do. I hear that people refer to him as a loudmouth.
I hear people say that he will start World War III. To which I say liberalism is a form of brain dis-order.

Trump is right about the democratic policies is large urban cities, what have these policies done but fail these urban populations, with their schools, roads, economic development. He is very accurate in his comments about that subject.

I want my President to have a voice and even raise it for good of our nation and its people.

I can guarantee you that the Iranians would not be holding guns to our service members heads, and The U.S.A. would not be providing 400 million to the Iranians for anything.

Clinton's entire campaign has been "anti-Trump"

yeah it has.

- Gregory

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
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Hello Tim,

Several `republican' turncoats will get their turn early on as well.

Boehner

and Ryan come to mind.

The Republican Party is self-destructing. It has become the party
of old ideas. A party that clings to an ideology that has long been
discredited and discarded, having a majority in the house only due
to gerrymandering and a very slim majority in the senate that it has
no hopes of retaining.

In the Clinton's case I suspect they will get strung up by their own

Secret

Service guards. The Secret Service can't be looking forward to the

Clinton TR> clan coming back to the White House.

Clinton has to win in order to stay out of jail.

Hussein will issue blanket pardons to those connected with any of her scandals, including her, as he goes out the door.

I do not believe a president has the power to grant a pardon
to someone who has not been convicted. Case in point is Edwin
Edwards, who was convicted when Bill Clinton was still in office.
Some of his supporters begged him not to appeal, thus allowing
Bill Clinton to grant him a pardon. But Edwards was acting as
his own lawyer, and appealed. Clinton left office, Edwards lost
his appeal, was carted off to prison, and GWB refused to grant
him a pardon.

She's not going to jail. Ever.

If Trump wins, she would be so shocked she would die.

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Hello Mike,

The Republican Party is self-destructing. It has become the party
of old ideas. A party that clings to an ideology that has long been
discredited and discarded, having a majority in the house only due
to gerrymandering and a very slim majority in the senate that it has
no hopes of retaining.

Ironically, in my state, the gerrymandering that flipped it from electing mostly Democrats to mostly Republicans was done by Democrats hoping to get rid of the 1 or 2 Republican Reps that kept getting elected. The first election year after they did that, every district but maybe one went Republican, including at least one that had not done so in decades. Although
they got one of those districts back, the one or two districts back before that that were Republican have remainded so for the past 20 year since, as have the others they lost.

Local Democrats get really, really angry when you use the word gerrymander around them. Really, really angry.

They all do it. Democrats and Republicans alike. It is the
nature of the game. The first rule of politics is to get elected.
Or re-elected as the case may be. A politician's duty is to
himself/herself first, everybody else last. That is the way the
game is played.

State legislatures have the power to redistrict congressional
boundaries, not the Congress. So what do members of Congress do?
They pressure their buddies back home to vote their way. Quite
easy to do. "You want the funds to build that bridge in your
town? Then draw up those congressional lines the way I want."
Works every time.

Republicans control three quarters of the state legislatures,
along with governorships. Democrats are the clear minority in
that area. You think the people really have a voice in who
gets elected to Congress?

Democrats have the blue wall, and have learned how to win
the Presidency. But Republicans own everything else.

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Hello Gregory,

I doubt Trump will do what Obama did which is acting like a pansy

and p

Iran 400 million dollars.

Yeah, I live in a state where even if I wanted to vote for Trump,
Clinton is going to win anyways.

Yeah I wish would take New York, he took every county here accept

Manhattan.

In fact I attended a rally in Albany, NY. It was awesome. When we were walking out it was incredible the amount of people was like what you would see at Times Square on New Years Eve.
Of course there were black protesters, they were calling us Nazi's. I shouted
back. "Women, if I was a Nazi, you would be dead by now!"

What state are you from?

The advantage Trump has is his supporters are very loyal. They
will turn out for him on election day, giving him a chance to win.
Clinton has a bigger base, but her supporters are not nearly as
committed or loyal. She will have problems with voter turnout on
election day, especially among African Americans. She is overly
cautious, afraid to take risks, less than forthcoming in regards
to telling the truth, and has other character flaws.

Clinton's entire campaign has been "anti-Trump" without ever
giving people a reason as to why they should vote for her.

That is why this race has remained close, and could even doom
her chances to win. Go ahead and ask a Clinton supporter why they
are voting for her. What is their reason(s)? Most cannot say.
Not that they don't want to. Only that they can't.

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Hello Gregory,

The advantage Trump has is his supporters are very loyal. They
will turn out for him on election day, giving him a chance to win.

I really hope your right Lee, you hear people say I'm so afraid of Trump wondering what he will do.

The EU is certainly scared of what Trump will do. So scared it
chose to ratify the Paris accords on climate change now, so that
the US would not be able to change or cancel it.

I hear that people refer to him as a loudmouth.

The EU is taking him seriously. That is not just one country, but
a whole bunch of countries. And there are others outside of Europe
which are also taking him seriously.

I hear people say that he will start World War III.

China would thank us for taking out that pipsqeak in North Korea.

To which I say liberalism is a form of brain dis-order.

FDR was a conservative. First thing he did was declare a bank holiday.
One third of the banks remained closed forever. The financial system
that had collapsed was put on more solid ground so that Americans could
return to work, building prosperity for themselves and their posterity,
giving us decades of economic growth.

Liberals have tried to claim FDR as their hero, not realizing that
FDR had no ideology of his own. Had FDR been able to finish his fourth
term in office he would have introduced a new bill of rights, based on
his four freedoms. He was about freedom of the individual, realizing
that all politics is local.

In other words, today's liberals have corrupted what liberalism is.

Trump is right about the democratic policies is large urban cities, what have these policies done but fail these urban populations, with their schools, roads, economic development. He is very accurate in his comments about that subject.

What happens when individuals become so dependent on government
services that they can no longer afford to do things for themselves?

FDR created work programs. These work programs were not handouts.
People had to actually do something constructive, so that all would
benefit. It wasn't this one-way street that nobody has to do a
thing to get whatever you want.

I want my President to have a voice and even raise it for good of our

nation

and its people.

Trump is a nationalist. Clinton is the opposite.

I can guarantee you that the Iranians would not be holding guns to our service members heads, and The U.S.A. would not be providing 400 million

to

the Iranians for anything.

Well, to be honest, that is John Kerry's fault. Not Clinton's.
She left at the end of Obama's first term, turning over the reigns
to John Kerry so he could carry on during Obama's second term.

Now if you want to talk about Libya, yes, that was her fault ...

Clinton's entire campaign has been "anti-Trump"

yeah it has.

Trump could do a number on her by getting his supporters in
New Mexico to vote for Gary Johnson, thus denying Clinton the
270 electoral votes she needs. That would send things to the
House where Trump would easily win ...

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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On 10/01/16, Lee Lofaso said the following...

Hello Tim,

Several `republican' turncoats will get their turn early on as well.

Boehner

and Ryan come to mind.

The Republican Party is self-destructing. It has become the party
of old ideas. A party that clings to an ideology that has long been discredited and discarded, having a majority in the house only due
to gerrymandering and a very slim majority in the senate that it has
no hopes of retaining.

In the Clinton's case I suspect they will get strung up by their own

Secret

Service guards. The Secret Service can't be looking forward to the Cl clan coming back to the White House.

The Clinton's are not coming to The White House, more like The Big House.

Clinton has to win in order to stay out of jail. And the electoral college math is in her favor. Not due to immigration, but rather
inner migration. States that were blue are becoming bluer. States
that were red are become redder. States that were purple are going
blue. States that were pink are going red. The migration patterns
become obvious when comparing the presidential elections of 1988
and 2012.

Can Trump win? The Blue Wall is going to be mighty tough to break through. Maybe even impossible, depending on how much teflon coating
the Clinton forces use to paint it.

There have been numerous news stories about Clinton double sampling and
further corruption in fixing the election, The Trump Camp will be watching
like a hawk to make sure that there is no cheating going on.

I suspect if she does win, it will be looked at to make sure that she did not cheat.

_ _
{# Greg {#

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
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On 10/25/16, Gregory Deyss said the following...

House. There have been numerous news stories about Clinton double
sampling and further corruption in fixing the election, The Trump Camp

Have some links?

-=>Richard Miles<=-
-=>Captain Obvious<=-
-=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
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On 10/25/16, Richard Miles said the following...

On 10/25/16, Gregory Deyss said the following...

House. There have been numerous news stories about Clinton

double

sampling and further corruption in fixing the election,

The Trump Cam

Have some links?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/10/democratic_oversampling_is_a_dirty_ trick.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/24/trump_wikileaks_shows_how_cli nton_campaign_rigged_the_polls_by_over-sampling_democrats.html

Wikileaks
speaks about this very issue of oversampling.

There is also a personal element to this.
Knowing what I have heard about this cheating going on with the voting
machines
not representing the actual votes being cast, I called down to Troy, NY to
the
GOP headquarters. I asked them, "how do I validate my vote?" Information
was
seemed sound, but then it happened the phone rang back it was the GOP
chair
that I just spoke with he had some rather interesting news on two
fronts.
1. I filled out the voter registration card for my son, so that he could
vote. I did this in the middle of September, this card was received and processed correctly. Then the GOP tells me that my son contacted them on October 4th and requested a second card but did not select any party. This information is false he did not contact them whatsoever, he would have no reason too, because of the card filled out in September. Fraud!!
2. They the GOP told me that I was not registered to vote because I was
removed
due to the fact that they sent out a card to me at my place of residence
not my
mailing address, they got the card returned to sender as a result I was
taken
off the register. So tomorrow October 27, 2016 I am going down there to
Troy,
New York to the GOP headquarters and will raise HELL.
I will more than likely make national news in the process.

_ _
{# Greg {#

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
# Origin: Capital Station BBS (1:267/150)
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)

Hello Gregory,

On 26 Oct 16 22:06, Gregory Deyss wrote to Richard Miles:

On 10/25/16, Richard Miles said the following...

On 10/25/16, Gregory Deyss said the following...

House. There have been numerous news stories about Clinton

double

sampling and further corruption in fixing the election, The

Trump Cam

Have some links?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/10/democratic_oversampling_is

_a_dirty_ trick.html


http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/24/trump_wikileaks_show

s_how_cli nton_campaign_rigged_the_polls_by_over-sampling_democrats.ht

ml

Wikileaks speaks about this very issue of oversampling.

There is also a personal element to this.
Knowing what I have heard about this cheating going on with the

voting

machines not representing the actual votes being cast, I called

down

to Troy, NY to the GOP headquarters. I asked them, "how do I validate
my vote?" Information was seemed sound, but then it happened the

phone

rang back it was the GOP chair that I just spoke with he had

some

rather interesting news on two fronts. 1. I filled out the voter registration card for my son, so that he could vote. I did this in

the

middle of September, this card was received and processed

correctly.

Then the GOP tells me that my son contacted them on October 4th and requested a second card but did not select any party. This

information

is false he did not contact them whatsoever, he would have

no reason

too, because of the card filled out in September. Fraud!! 2. They the
GOP told me that I was not registered to vote because I was
removed due to the fact that they sent out a card to me at my place

of

residence not my mailing address, they got the card returned to

sender

as a result I was taken off the register. So tomorrow October 27,

2016

I am going down there to Troy, New York to the GOP headquarters

and

will raise HELL. I will more than likely make national news in the process.

_ _
{# Greg {#

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
* Origin: Capital Station BBS (1:267/150)

Please make sure this Fidonet echo and your Dovenet "Debate" echo do not
have the same echotag (which at the moment I believe they are), which will cause you to post to both echos even though the same discussion may or may
not be happening in both places.

Regards,
Nick

... "-Y-| -+-+-#-A. -> -+-|-|-U-i -e-+-+-i-|-+ -C-#-#-+-e-#-A."
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20160827
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Please make sure this Fidonet echo and your Dovenet "Debate" echo do

not

have the same echotag (which at the moment I believe they are), which
will cause you to post to both echos even though the same discussion

may

or may not be happening in both places.

Not even remotely possible....
As I do not subscribe to the network of Dovenet.

_ _
{# Greg {#

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
# Origin: Capital Station BBS (1:267/150)
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On 10-30-16, Gregory Deyss said to Nicholas Boel:

Please make sure this Fidonet echo and your Dovenet "Debate" echo do not have the same echotag (which at the moment I believe they are), which
will cause you to post to both echos even though the same discussion may
or may not be happening in both places.

Not even remotely possible....
As I do not subscribe to the network of Dovenet.

I just thumbed back through the `Dovenet' list, saw the `dovenet `Debate'
echo, and you're there plain as day!

===
*Durango b301 #PE*
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# Origin: 1st Choice Core Nz (3:770/330)
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On 10-26-16, Gregory Deyss said to Richard Miles:

@MSGID: <5811BFC4.73.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@REPLY: <58102BBA.72.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@TZ: 40f0
On 10/25/16, Richard Miles said the following...

On 10/25/16, Gregory Deyss said the following...

House. There have been numerous news stories about Clinton double sampling and further corruption in fixing the election, The Trump

Cam RM>

Have some links?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/10/democratic_oversampling_is_a_d GD>rty_ trick.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/24/trump_wikileaks_shows_ho GD>_cli nton_campaign_rigged_the_polls_by_over-sampling_democrats.html

Wikileaks speaks about this very issue of oversampling.

There is also a personal element to this.
Knowing what I have heard about this cheating going on with the voting GD>machines not representing the actual votes being cast, I called down to GD>Troy, NY to the GOP headquarters. I asked them, "how do I validate my GD>vote?" Information was seemed sound, but then it happened the phone rang GD>back it was the GOP chair that I just spoke with he had some rather GD>interesting news on two fronts. 1. I filled out the voter registration GD>card for my son, so that he could vote. I did this in the middle of GD>September, this card was received and processed correctly. Then the GOP GD>tells me that my son contacted them on October 4th and requested a second GD>card but did not select any party. This information is false he did not GD>contact them whatsoever, he would have no reason too, because of the card GD>filled out in September. Fraud!! 2. They the GOP told me that I was not GD>registered to vote because I was removed due to the fact that they sent GD>out a card to me at my place of residence not my mailing address, they got GD>the card returned to sender as a result I was taken off the register. So GD>tomorrow October 27, 2016 I am going down there to Troy, New York to the GD>GOP headquarters and will raise HELL. I will more than likely make

national news in the process. _ _

Here's another one that is dup'ed in the Dovenet `Debate' echo.

===
*Durango b301 #PE*
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* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)

On 10-25-16, Gregory Deyss said to Lee Lofaso:

There have been numerous news stories about Clinton double sampling and GD>further corruption in fixing the election, The Trump Camp will be watching GD>like a hawk to make sure that there is no cheating going on.

I suspect if she does win, it will be looked at to make sure that she did GD>not cheat.

The democrats and `cheating' go hand in hand.


The common question; `how stupid can you be' is seen as a personal challenge
by democrats, so they pull out all the stops!


Somebody said Bernie Sanders had to cut a lot of staff because his campaign
ran out of everybody elses money.


Which reminds me of this `free college' thing;


Clinton is gonna try to get that made a reality if she wins.


Her (and Sanders's) talking point is; young people shouldn't have to go to college, run up all that `student loan' debt, and then begin their careers
with a huge student loan debt to repay which usually can take the first ten
or so years of their careers (that is, those that even bother to repay it).


Let me put that in perspective;


The translation of that is...they don't want young people who go to college
to
get a degree for a career, to have a huge student loan to repay.


But....SOMEbody has to repay that money!


So....can you guess *who* that somebody is gonna be?


Did I hear someone out there yell *TAXPAYERS*?


In other words....if Clinton wins...look for all that `student loan' debt to
go from the students who `borrowed' it, onto the taxpayers' bill to repay!


Nice!


Does it strike anyone funny that the same person who couldn't rescue four Americans at Benghazi, wants to rescue over 200,000 Islamics from the area
of the most active terrorist ideology in the world?


I saw a list of the top ten successful government programs since 2009. Here they are in alphabetical order:


1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

6.

7.

8.

9.

10.


Geez! Reads like a list of Hillary Clinton's accomplishments!


Saw a poster of Hussein Obama in shirt sleeves with a mike in his hand giving
a speech.

One of the things he says is:

"If we pass more gun laws, crime will go away!"

And just underneath that poster was one of one of the Dead End kids who says:

"If stupid could fly, you'd be a jet!"


"Chelsea was jogging around the World Trade Center on 9\11." ....Hillary Clinton


"I don't know what wiping the server means." ...Hillary Clinton


"Benghazi was caused by a video." ...Hillary Clinton


"I landed in Bosnia under sniper fire." ...Hillary Clinton


"We were broken when we left the White House." ....Hillary Clinton


"There were no classified emails on my server." ...Hillary Clinton


Does it bother you that about 47% of Americans who pay no federal income tax, get to vote on what the rest of us pay? Isn't that sort of like a pack of
fox's and a chicken voting on what's for dinner?


Two posters side by side; one's a picture of Al Sharpton, the other a picture of a Confederate Battle Flag.

One is a picture of a racist symbol. The other is a picture of a flag.


A picture of all the people who've been lifted out of poverty by democrat policies would be a picture of a desert!


Saw a poster of Brina Williams saying:

"This just in: Hillary has captured the Chicago cemetery vote!"





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Hello Richard,

Here's another one that is dup'ed in the Dovenet `Debate' echo.

Someone must be downloading it with the wrong qwk name in dovenet that

is

also here. The file name here that I pick up from Vertrauen is DOVE-DEB whereas the echo tag for this one is DEBATE.

Richard Miles<=-
Captain Obvious<=-
bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

Welcome to the Fidonet DEBATE Echo.

Lee Lofaso, Moderator
Tim Richardson, Co-Moderator
All other participants, Co-Moderators

Oh what the hell time to update the echo
by making all participants Moderators.

Howzzat?

--Lee

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
# Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)

On 10/30/16, Tim Richardson said the following...

Here's another one that is dup'ed in the Dovenet `Debate' echo.

Someone must be downloading it with the wrong qwk name in dovenet that is
also here. The file name here that I pick up from Vertrauen is DOVE-DEB
whereas the echo tag for this one is DEBATE.

-=>Richard Miles<=-
-=>Captain Obvious<=-
-=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
# Origin: Shadowscope BBS | bbs.shadowscope.com | Temple, GA (1:3634/24)
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)

On 11/02/16, Lee Lofaso said the following...

Welcome to the Fidonet DEBATE Echo.

Been here for several years, mostly lurk. I was offering an answer to
someone else's issue.

-=>Richard Miles<=-
-=>Captain Obvious<=-
-=>bbs.shadowscope.com<=-

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
# Origin: Shadowscope BBS | bbs.shadowscope.com | Temple, GA (1:3634/24)
* Origin: LiveWire BBS - Synchronet - LiveWireBBS.com (1:2320/100)

On 10/30/16, Tim Richardson said the following...

On 10-30-16, Gregory Deyss said to Nicholas Boel:

Please make sure this Fidonet echo and your Dovenet "Debate" echo

do n

have the same echotag (which at the moment I believe they are),

which

will cause you to post to both echos even though the same

discussion m

or may not be happening in both places.

Not even remotely possible....
As I do not subscribe to the network of Dovenet.

I just thumbed back through the `Dovenet' list, saw the `dovenet

`Debate'

echo, and you're there plain as day!

There has to be another explaination here of messages written here in the
area somehow making their way into the dovenet debate,
I would imagine someone has something configured incorrectly, something along those lines or closely related to that, because I do not have dovenet
connected here, I carry all of fidonet and I subscribe to FSXNET which is
Paul Hayton's network out of New Zealand.

I will investigate my node in fidonet is 1:267/150 what do the seen by's
show.?

_ _
{# Greg {#

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A31 (Windows)
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On 11-01-16, Richard Miles said to Tim Richardson:

@MSGID: <58192DE3.79.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@TZ: 40f0
On 10/30/16, Tim Richardson said the following...

Here's another one that is dup'ed in the Dovenet `Debate' echo.

Someone must be downloading it with the wrong qwk name in dovenet that is RM>also here. The file name here that I pick up from Vertrauen is DOVE-DEB RM>whereas the echo tag for this one is DEBATE.

I don't know what's going on.





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Gregory Deyss wrote to Tim Richardson <=-

On 10/30/16, Tim Richardson said the following...

On 10-30-16, Gregory Deyss said to Nicholas Boel:

Please make sure this Fidonet echo and your Dovenet "Debate" echo

do n

have the same echotag (which at the moment I believe they are),

which

will cause you to post to both echos even though the same

discussion m

or may not be happening in both places.

Not even remotely possible....
As I do not subscribe to the network of Dovenet.

I just thumbed back through the `Dovenet' list, saw the `dovenet

`Debate'

echo, and you're there plain as day!

There has to be another explaination here of messages written here in
the area somehow making their way into the dovenet debate,
I would imagine someone has something configured incorrectly, something along those lines or closely related to that, because I do not have dovenet connected here, I carry all of fidonet and I subscribe to
FSXNET which is Paul Hayton's network out of New Zealand.

I will investigate my node in fidonet is 1:267/150 what do the seen
by's show.?

It's been resolved. It's Phillip Taylor's system that is causing the issue.


--

Bill

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03 Nov 16 13:26, you wrote to Tim Richardson:

Not even remotely possible....
As I do not subscribe to the network of Dovenet.

I just thumbed back through the `Dovenet' list, saw the `dovenet
`Debate' echo, and you're there plain as day!

There has to be another explaination here of messages written here in
the area somehow making their way into the dovenet debate,

that's easy... someone has crosslinked the areas by putting the posts from
each network into the same message base on their system... AFAIK, the
/only/ system that should be putting dovenet message areas into fidonet is digital mans's system... no other system should be trying to gate between dovenet and fidonet... if they are, they need to stop... the trick is to
find that system and correct that system's operator's thought processes and setup ;)

I would imagine someone has something configured incorrectly,

not incorrectly... but they should not be attempting to gate dovenet and fidonet... crosslinking the message areas is a form of gating but it is not
the proper way to gate the two networks...

something along those lines or closely related to that, because I do
not have dovenet connected here, I carry all of fidonet and I
subscribe to FSXNET which is Paul Hayton's network out of New Zealand.

I will investigate my node in fidonet is 1:267/150 what do the seen
by's show.?

seenbys only show the distribution... the path shows the umm... path that
the message followed... QWK networking doesn't have a path line... if mr
tim can see the path line on the duplicated messages, it will show the
origin on the fidonet side where the improper gating is being done...

NOTE: mr tim is a southern way of showing respect to others... it is in no
way a derrogatory thing...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin'
it wrong...
... Walk in Beauty, dance with the Clouds
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03 Nov 16 18:52, you wrote to Gregory Deyss:

I will investigate my node in fidonet is 1:267/150 what do the seen
by's show.?

It's been resolved. It's Phillip Taylor's system that is causing the issue.

can you provide details as to the discovery and resolution?

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin'
it wrong...
... Tobacco: Canada's leading cause of statistics.
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On 11-03-16, Gregory Deyss said to Tim Richardson:

@MSGID: <581BAA33.84.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@TZ: 40f0
On 10/30/16, Tim Richardson said the following...

On 10-30-16, Gregory Deyss said to Nicholas Boel:

Please make sure this Fidonet echo and your Dovenet "Debate" echo do

n TR> NB> have the same echotag (which at the moment I believe they are), GD>which TR> NB> will cause you to post to both echos even though the same GD>discussion m TR> NB> or may not be happening in both places.

Not even remotely possible....
As I do not subscribe to the network of Dovenet.

I just thumbed back through the `Dovenet' list, saw the `dovenet `Debate' echo, and you're there plain as day!

There has to be another explaination here of messages written here in the GD>area somehow making their way into the dovenet debate,

Probably.

I would imagine someone has something configured incorrectly, something GD>along those lines or closely related to that,

I agree. Probably one of those clowns in zone one screwing up again!

because I do not have
dovenet connected here, I carry all of fidonet and I subscribe to FSXNET GD>which is Paul Hayton's network out of New Zealand.

I will investigate my node in fidonet is 1:267/150 what do the seen by's GD>show.?

I'll investigate mine as well. .....wait a minute.....uh...I don't HAVE a `node'!

Uh...just check yours *twice*! Once for you and once for me ....that oughta do it!


Ya know....it could have been that Phillip Taylor's system! I suspected him right from the first!


"If at first you don't succeed....check yer node!" ....Henry Nogginnod






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mark lewis wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

03 Nov 16 18:52, you wrote to Gregory Deyss:

I will investigate my node in fidonet is 1:267/150 what do the seen
by's show.?

It's been resolved. It's Phillip Taylor's system that is causing the issue.

can you provide details as to the discovery and resolution?

Rob discovered where the cross networking was occuring and I think he dropped Philips system from Dovenet till he took acre of the problem. If you look
over
on Dovenet his system ID was "DM".


--

Bill

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Hello Bill,

On 04 Nov 16 08:11, Bill McGarrity wrote to mark lewis:

It's been resolved. It's Phillip Taylor's system that is causing
the issue.

can you provide details as to the discovery and resolution?

Rob discovered where the cross networking was occuring and I think he dropped Philips system from Dovenet till he took acre of the problem.
If you look over on Dovenet his system ID was "DM".

That paired with the fact that it was Phil Taylor's system, that was
probably the only option (dropping his system until it is resolved). Phil
most likely did it completely unknowingly and had absolutely no idea it was happening. Then trying to contact him and get it fixed is probably a pretty difficult process. :)

Regards,
Nick

... "-Y-| -+-+-#-A. -> -+-|-|-U-i -e-+-+-i-|-+ -C-#-#-+-e-#-A."
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04 Nov 16 08:11, you wrote to me:

I will investigate my node in fidonet is 1:267/150 what do the seen
by's show.?

It's been resolved. It's Phillip Taylor's system that is causing the
issue.

can you provide details as to the discovery and resolution?

Rob discovered where the cross networking was occuring and I think he dropped Philips system from Dovenet till he took acre of the problem.
If you look over on Dovenet his system ID was "DM".

ahhhh... ok... kinda like he found and quietly fixed the problem with
messages being double spaced from multiple different systems...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin'
it wrong...
... Cry 'BANANA!' and let slip the clowns of war!
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I just thumbed back through the `Dovenet' list, saw the `dovenet

`Deb

echo, and you're there plain as day!

There has to be another explaination here of messages written

here in

the area somehow making their way into the dovenet debate,
I would imagine someone has something configured incorrectly,

somethi

along those lines or closely related to that, because I do not have dovenet connected here, I carry all of fidonet and I subscribe to FSXNET which is Paul Hayton's network out of New Zealand.

I will investigate my node in fidonet is 1:267/150 what do the seen by's show.?

It's been resolved. It's Phillip Taylor's system that is causing the issue.

Thanks Bill for letting me know, I am glad it was resolved, I know there was
no way possible for my system to be the cause, because I do not have Dovenet here.

_ _
{# Greg {#

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On 11/03/16, Tim Richardson said the following...

On 11-03-16, Gregory Deyss said to Tim Richardson:

@MSGID: <581BAA33.84.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@TZ: 40f0
On 10/30/16, Tim Richardson said the following...

On 10-30-16, Gregory Deyss said to Nicholas Boel:

Please make sure this Fidonet echo and your Dovenet "Debate"

echo

n TR> NB> have the same echotag (which at the moment I believe they

are),

which TR> NB> will cause you to post to both echos even though the

same

discussion m TR> NB> or may not be happening in both places.

Not even remotely possible....
As I do not subscribe to the network of Dovenet.

I just thumbed back through the `Dovenet' list, saw the `dovenet

`Deba

echo, and you're there plain as day!

There has to be another explaination here of messages written here

in t

area somehow making their way into the dovenet debate,

Probably.

I would imagine someone has something configured incorrectly,

something

along those lines or closely related to that,

I agree. Probably one of those clowns in zone one screwing up again!

Hey! I am in zone 1. :)

Ya know....it could have been that Phillip Taylor's system! I suspected him right from the first!

I have been already told it was Phillip's system.
No worries, I am glad that the problem was found, and hopefully will be resolved soon. I know it couldn't of been my system, as I do subscribe to dovenet, so there was another explanation.

_ _
{# Greg {#

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On 11-04-16, Gregory Deyss said to Tim Richardson:

There has to be another explaination here of messages written here in

t TR> GD>area somehow making their way into the dovenet debate,

Probably.

I would imagine someone has something configured incorrectly,

something TR> GD>along those lines or closely related to that,

I agree. Probably one of those clowns in zone one screwing up again!

Hey! I am in zone 1. :)

Ya know....it could have been that Phillip Taylor's system! I suspected
him right from the first!

I have been already told it was Phillip's system.

I KNEW it!!

No worries, I am glad that the problem was found, and hopefully will be GD>resolved soon. I know it couldn't of been my system, as I do subscribe to GD>dovenet, so there was another explanation.

That Phillip!....always cuttin' up!


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On 11-03-16, mark lewis said to Gregory Deyss:

NOTE: mr tim is a southern way of showing respect to others... it is in no ml>way a derrogatory thing...

NOTE: `mr. tim' is aware of t hat.




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On 11-04-16, Nicholas Boel said to Bill McGarrity:

@MSGID: <581C9566.90.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@REPLY: <581C9564.89.fidonet_debate@1stchoicecore.co.nz>
@TZ: 412c
Hello Bill,

On 04 Nov 16 08:11, Bill McGarrity wrote to mark lewis:

It's been resolved. It's Phillip Taylor's system that is causing
the issue.

can you provide details as to the discovery and resolution?

Rob discovered where the cross networking was occuring and I think he dropped Philips system from Dovenet till he took acre of the problem.
If you look over on Dovenet his system ID was "DM".

That paired with the fact that it was Phil Taylor's system, that was NB>probably the only option (dropping his system until it is resolved). Phil NB>most likely did it completely unknowingly and had absolutely no idea it NB>was happening. Then trying to contact him and get it fixed is probably a NB>pretty difficult process. :)

Wait a minute...I gotta shell out and check something.........


Ok. Bill must have nailed it. This is the first time in a long time DOVENET doesn't show up in my `AREAS' list.


How it ever got into Fido in the first place is weird. Somebody got something crossed up. I was getting a whole list of DOVENET echoes for the longest
time.


I thought it was something new in Fido since I was a Fidonet regular (as you know I've been sporadically disconnected), and paid no attention to it till
it came up as a `topic'.


`If at first you don't succeed....try pluggin' it in!'





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Gregory Deyss wrote to Bill McGarrity <=-

I just thumbed back through the `Dovenet' list, saw the `dovenet

`Deb

echo, and you're there plain as day!

There has to be another explaination here of messages written

here in

the area somehow making their way into the dovenet debate,
I would imagine someone has something configured incorrectly,

somethi

along those lines or closely related to that, because I do not have dovenet connected here, I carry all of fidonet and I subscribe to FSXNET which is Paul Hayton's network out of New Zealand.

I will investigate my node in fidonet is 1:267/150 what do the seen by's show.?

It's been resolved. It's Phillip Taylor's system that is causing the issue.

Thanks Bill for letting me know, I am glad it was resolved, I know
there was no way possible for my system to be the cause, because I do
not have Dovenet here.

Welcome... :)


--

Bill

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Re: Starting things off.
By: Mike Powell to Lee Lofaso on Sat Oct 01 2016 12:12 pm

Local Democrats get really, really angry when you use the word gerrymander around them. Really, really angry.

That is exactly what they are doing in Louisville... they are tearing down the Black Democrat stronghold housing projects and moving them to predominantly white republican areas like PRP, Valley Station and Fairdale.

I don't want to sound racist but they seem to be taking the concentrated base that votes democrat and are engineering new "scattered housing" areas where you don't know which house someone paid full price and which house is "subsidised" to get them into home ownership or it's a HUD owned secion 8 rental.

There are many of these "neighborhoods" popping up in the burbs.

And now they are trying to eliminate busing and have neighborhood schools in our state. Which is aimed totally at Louisville where the average student rides an hour or more every day on the bus just to get to school all for "diversity" reasons.

But the sword cuts both ways... they want to build a low income high density housing building in Prospect which is a "Rich white democrat" section and they are resisitng it because they feel it is not a good fit for their neighborhood.

I've seen the plans on that building and it's nice... it's for low income senior citizens. Excuses they are giving is the building won't have enough parking... yet similar buildings in downtown Louisville have less parking that it will have and more housing units in the towers (think Dosker Manor). Most of the low income seniors can't drive.

Amazingly this area in Prospect is near a neighborhood called "norton commons" which was built to have pedestrians in mind. There are plenty of grocery stores and other retail where the seniors can safely walk or ride their scooters too. Sadly the high density senior housing in Downtown no longer has a grocery store they can walk to.

And don't get me started on the Veterans Hospital controversy. The VA purchased land in the Rich "east end" and they don't want it there either.

Allen

... Humour is emotional chaos remembered in tranquillity.
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That is exactly what they are doing in Louisville... they are tearing down the >Black Democrat stronghold housing projects and moving them to predominantly >white republican areas like PRP, Valley Station and Fairdale.

With Louisville being traditionally Democrat-leaning, is your opinion that
the Democrats are doing so in order to weaken Republican areas, or is your opinion that some Republicans are doing this so as to break up the downtown stronghold(s)? Curious since I used to live there but have not kept up with this kind of thing.

I don't want to sound racist but they seem to be taking the concentrated base that votes democrat and are engineering new "scattered housing" areas where you
don't know which house someone paid full price and which house is

"subsidised"

to get them into home ownership or it's a HUD owned secion 8 rental.

Here is the thing, and this crosses racial boundaries... the government has tried to get more people owning homes. That is not at its roots a bad thing, but an unfortunate side-effect is that you get people owning homes that probably should not be. They are not responsible enough, stable enough, etc., to do so. Part of the housing fiasco was greedy banks and lenders, but part of it was the fact that the government encouraged this stuff and didn't check-and-balance it at all.

Heck, even people who are reasonable and stable enough these days may not
have a long-term income stream that would support home ownership. Being a single, public-sector employee in a not-very-rich state, I am honestly
starting to feel like I probably fall into this category. I can afford to
own one, and can afford to keep one up, but I am no longer so sure I can
afford to do both. :)

Now, Louisville-specific, back before that area fell under control of a
larger regional office centered in another, quasi-far-off city, the HUD Louisville regional office consistently had the lowest, or next-to-lowest, default rate in the country. So for anyone who thinks the next-to previous paragraph was government bashing, or Louisville bashing, no it was not. :)

And now they are trying to eliminate busing and have neighborhood schools in our state. Which is aimed totally at Louisville where the average student rides an hour or more every day on the bus just to get to school all for "diversity" reasons.

Over the years Louisville got some praise for their busing program, but they also got sued for it in more recent years, IIRC. At one point, they had some sort of "block" program where suburban white kids could go to their neighborhood school so long as it was not deemed "full." If it was, tough, they might have to go another school school in their "block" that was likely all the way across town... think Lyndon or St. Matt's to Valley Station... and the school system would NOT provide transportation.

That was another stab at promoting diversity (maybe middle class vs. lower-middle, rather than racial) and I don't think it lasted long.

But the sword cuts both ways... they want to build a low income high density >housing building in Prospect which is a "Rich white democrat" section and they >are resisitng it because they feel it is not a good fit for their >neighborhood.

LOL, you have to love the hardened Democrats like those. They'd probably
raise a stink, and maybe some $$$, if it was some rich Republican trying to keep those poor folks out. But, give them the choice of having them in their own backyards, and having it affect their property values, and they throw the same hissy fits. It is OK to help those poor folks, just as long as they
stay downtown or on the Southend where they belong.

Amazingly this area in Prospect is near a neighborhood called "norton commons" >which was built to have pedestrians in mind. There are plenty of grocery >stores and other retail where the seniors can safely walk or ride their >scooters too. Sadly the high density senior housing in Downtown no longer has >a grocery store they can walk to.

Norton's Commons is actually outside of Prospect, but that is still a near-adjacent, mostly rich-folks area. I can remember when most of Norton's Commons was still farmland and open fields.

And don't get me started on the Veterans Hospital controversy. The VA purchased land in the Rich "east end" and they don't want it there either.

I wonder what excuse those rich snobs use for that?

Now, wait and see... someone will dispute the existance of "rich, snooty Democrats." <GRIN>

Mike

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Re: Starting things off.
By: Mike Powell to Allen Prunty on Tue Mar 07 2017 07:00 pm

Mike,

With Louisville being traditionally Democrat-leaning, is your opinion that the Democrats are doing so in order to weaken Republican areas, or is your opinion that some Republicans are doing this so as to break up the downtown stronghold(s)? Curious since I used to live there but have not kept up with this kind of thing.

The SouthWest end of Jefferson county has always leaned towards republican. The Metro Council rep for our area is a Democrat (Cyndi Fowler) because lately all the republican party can run was the owner of Pepper Tackle that only has an 8th grade education and the last run was by a young man who was Cyndi's legislative aide which made things interesting. Plus I know Cyndi very well and she has voted against the Democrat majority on the Metro Council whenever it would negatively effect our community so I have no problem with her.

Downtown will always be a Democrat Stronghold... we are not importing republicans in there to fill the vaccuum. In fact I'm sure that those multi-million dollar condos that they built on the waterfront that used to be a housing project in Nu-Lu (New Louisville area) are occupied democrat.

With that said, when they tear down a housing project those residents are relocated somewhere... and they are building a lot of low income apartments that do section 8 in PRP, Valley Station and that area... it has and will continue to shift the area from Republican to Democrat. All you have to do is look at the historic polls for the past 20 years in our districts and see that the votes have increased in the D column... the R column has stayed consistently the same. It corrleates with the population increase in our area.

Here is the thing, and this crosses racial boundaries... the government has tried to get more people owning homes. That is not at its roots a bad thing, but an unfortunate side-effect is that you get people owning homes that probably should not be. They are not responsible enough, stable enough, etc., to do so. Part of the housing fiasco was greedy banks and lenders, but part of it was the fact that the government encouraged this stuff and didn't check-and-balance it at all.

Yes... and there have been a lot of foreclosures here in the area as well. Especially in the neighborhoods that were built by Dominon Homes, the prefab areas off of Greenwood Road and Terry Road were part of that program. Many of them are empty and from what I'm told by a friend who is a realtor, they are in very bad shape when the forclosed people leave they trash the home.

We also have identified a few landlords in our area that have profited greatly from the section 8 program. They have been purchasing forclosed homes below marked value in areas that were traditionally the upper middle class area of Valley Station, PRP in Sun Valley and Windsor Forest and converting them to section 8. There are a lot of new homes and condos out here that were built when the housing boom hit. Many are empty... and have been converted to rentals. I can take you to at least 5 subdivisions where they paved the streets and installed the underground utilities and the front entrances have been blocked by large concrete barriers becuse the homes were not built... some of the streets have deteriorated even though no cars have been driven on them. One subdivision off of old third is even quite large, streets, utilities, fire hydrants and street lights (some even work) are there but no houses have been built.

Heck, even people who are reasonable and stable enough these days may not have a long-term income stream that would support home ownership. Being a single, public-sector employee in a not-very-rich state, I am honestly starting to feel like I probably fall into this category. I can afford to own one, and can afford to keep one up, but I am no longer so sure I can afford to do both. :)

I am disabled... I have 2 years left on my home loan and I own it. I am struggling to meet all my bills now and in order to keep my home I sometimes have to rely on whatever help I can get to do so. I do qualify for LIHEAP but not SNAP or any food assistance. I've managed to keep my head above water and once this place is paid off I am pretty much secure. Until then the struggle is real.

Now, Louisville-specific, back before that area fell under control of a larger regional office centered in another, quasi-far-off city, the HUD Louisville regional office consistently had the lowest, or next-to-lowest, default rate in the country. So for anyone who thinks the next-to previous paragraph was government bashing, or Louisville bashing, no it was not. :)

Main reson why Louisville has not had so many defaults is that most of the people placed in the HUD program are blessed by some of the programs here in Louisville that assited them with their loan payments. I do not qualify for HUD because I owned my home before I was disabled. Plus my loan payment is pretty low. If I were to get behind on a loan payment (which I never have) then I probably would qualfiy for assistance. However, I've never had to get behind on a loan payment. I don't want to trash what good credit I have just to get assistance.

Over the years Louisville got some praise for their busing program, but they also got sued for it in more recent years, IIRC. At one point, they had some sort of "block" program where suburban white kids could go to their neighborhood school so long as it was not deemed "full." If it was, tough, they might have to go another school school in their "block" that was likely all the way across town... think Lyndon or St. Matt's to Valley Station... and the school system would NOT provide transportation.

The probelm is, it is racial. It's all about racial balance... they have a neighborhood school in West Louisville. Shawnee high school is one of the biggest high schools in the city and it uses only 1/2 of its first floor as a high school and they use the other half as a middle school. Floors 2-4 are unoccupied. That school could easily serve the community... and it does have an aviation magnet that allows the students to get an avaiation certification and their pilot's license. My cousin did go to that magnet and it was a very demanding program.

However the mostly black kids from the West End are bussed all over creation. Central is also a neighborhood school but it has white kids from all over the city bussed to it, mostly from the Okolona and Fern creek areas.

However if you look at the schools in the fat wallet area (aka rich white Louisville) they are mostly kids from the neighborhood. Ballard and Waggner are two that come to mind that are full of the white upper class students. They do bus in blacks for racial balance but bus them in from the Chamberlain Lane area off of West Port Road or the nicer housing project right off of West Port road and the watterson that everyone forgets exsists.

The saddest thing is that in Norton Commons the Norton family donated land to JCPS with the understanding that an elementary school -must- be built on that land by 2015 or it reverted back to the Norton Foundation. JCPS built the school... and it had to be built to the Norton Commons specifications so it's a nice large school. But the Norton Commons (a very rich neighborhood) students are not enough to sustain the school... so they have shut down more elementary schools in the west end to bus students to Norton Elementary. The ride from the west end to Norton Elementary is pretty much from the farthest boundaries of the city... those kids ride the bus for more than an hour every day just to get to and from school.

What makes the kids suffer the most is it takes time that they could be studying at home away from them. I've heard "do your work on the bus" when I was bussed... yeah right not going to happen too many distractions and those school busses are not exactly a smooth ride.

The question I'm throwing out to others on the echo that live in other LARGE cities is does your school system bus kids around to maintain "Diverstiy"?
Our school system spends nearly 2 million dollars a year just on fuel to bus our kids around. We have a population in Louisville, counting the large metro area, of around one million. If you don't count the metro and only the urban city area it's much smaller... but we are talking the entire Jefferson County area.

That was another stab at promoting diversity (maybe middle class vs. lower-middle, rather than racial) and I don't think it lasted long.

There isn't much middle class left here in Louisville. I'm sorry but I know what middle class is. It's now either lower Upper class (orange is the new black they could be called middle but it's offensive to them) or upper lower class.

The true Middle class has gotten tired of Louisville's bullshit and that's why Bullitt and Oldham counties have had so many people move to them.

If you go to Bullitt county and look at any of their schools you can see where that county is investing their money... the schools are much nicer than anything in the Louisville/Jefferson metro across the board and they don't spend money moving their kids around all over the county. And then we can talk about performance... How many principals in Louisville have made the news were they were fired due to lack of performance. You don't hear that in other counties... PERIOD. Heck Mike, I believe there's a few reasons you benefit from for NOT living in Louisville.

LOL, you have to love the hardened Democrats like those. They'd probably raise a stink, and maybe some $$$, if it was some rich Republican trying to keep those poor folks out. But, give them the choice of having them in their own backyards, and having it affect their property values, and they throw the same hissy fits. It is OK to help those poor folks, just as long as they stay downtown or on the Southend where they belong.

No and when the Home of the Innocents, our "orphanage" / shelter wanted to relocate to the East end for a better environement for the kids in their custody they were blocked... "Not in my neighborhood". But it's not racist or classist when they donate millions when they purchased their new facility over an old stockyard in Butchertown. The buildings are nice and the facility is beautiful, but it's still in a higher crime area... and what do the kids smell when they go out to play on the playground? They smell the slaughterhouse's stink and the smell of the Fischer and Swift meat packing plants.

Norton's Commons is actually outside of Prospect, but that is still a near-adjacent, mostly rich-folks area. I can remember when most of Norton's Commons was still farmland and open fields.

It's outside of Prospect but on the border. It's become it's own zone. If I hit the lottery that's where I would reloacate mainly because it's designed for "health" most of my Doctors are at the new Norton Brownsboro hospital in the commons district. I've been hospitlaized in every hospital in Louisville at least three times. That is the caddillac of hospitals :-)

I wonder what excuse those rich snobs use for that?

It would disrupt the "traffic" in the area causing a higher volume in the area off of Brownsboro site... that's one of the reasons another is they feel a six story hospital would disrupt their pretty neighborhoods. But when you boil
it down, they don't need an economic boost in that area. That's one reason why we would love to see it out here in the Dixie Highway area. It would serve the communities of Radcliff better since many of their patients travel from Radcliff and that area of Hardin County. Fort Knox resulted in many veterans settling there. Heck we would welcome the senior tower but don't have the retail access and activity access the seniors would have in Prospect.

Unfortunately the Guvhment has aleady spent $30million on the Brownsboro site.

http://tinyurl.com/zl9phu3

Here's the Curious Jumble's article on it. And the Liberal lady in the photograph looks like she has been sucking lemons for the past 25 years.

I'm attending a lot of these meetings when I can and I see it every time... I've heard every kind of sugar coated "not in my neighborhood" usually by women like this. I've asked to speak and was silenced quickly. The poor HAVE NO VOICE in these meetings and you can bet your ass that it's usually packed with liberal well to do women who do not work that get up there and speak... in fact the meetings rarely happen when the working class people -can- attend them. I can not always attend as I do not drive much anymore due to my vision. But when we have one in the Southwest end I am there... so much now that more than one metro council person knows me by name and I have three of them on speed dial in my cell phone now.

Now, wait and see... someone will dispute the existance of "rich, snooty Democrats." <GRIN>

Look at the picture in that newspaper article of the woman holding the "graph" I think she might possibly fall in that category.

Allen

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However if you look at the schools in the fat wallet area (aka rich white >Louisville) they are mostly kids from the neighborhood. Ballard and Waggner >are two that come to mind that are full of the white upper class students. >They do bus in blacks for racial balance but bus them in from the Chamberlain >Lane area off of West Port Road or the nicer housing project right off of West >Port road and the watterson that everyone forgets exsists.

Waggener must have changed a whole lot since I was there. When I was there, the "fat wallet" kids all went to Trinity, Sacred Heart, or Male... especially the ones good at sports... or they found ways to get transferred to Ballard or Manual. Trinity was in walking distance of Waggener. There were a bunch of kids that got bussed that would have been going to Central had they stayed in their own neighborhoods.

Since the closing of Westport High back around 1980, there has always been a part of Waggener's district that followed Westport and Lagrange Roads out
well past what you would think of as St. Matthews. I spent almost as much
time on a bus going there as I did getting bussed downtown for 8th grade.

Mike

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