Wasn't this supposed to be the Unix board?

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Mortar wrote to All <=-

Wasn't this supposed to be the Unix board?

Well, it's the DoveNet "Unix Discussion" sub-board. What exactly do you
mean by your question?



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Re: Back on Track
By: Mortar to All on Wed Dec 18 2024 12:44 am

Wasn't this supposed to be the Unix board?

LOL

Anyboy working with Redhat / Alma Linux / Rocky Linux 10.0 Beta?

...I used to be indecisive; now I'm not sure.
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Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: Amessyroom to all on Wed Dec 18 2024 09:42:53

Wasn't this supposed to be the Unix board?

Anyboy working with Redhat / Alma Linux / Rocky Linux 10.0 Beta?

Heh, at least it's moving in the right direction.

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Re: Re: Back on Track
By: Gamgee to Mortar on Wed Dec 18 2024 07:21:46

Well, it's the DoveNet "Unix Discussion" sub-board. What exactly do you mean by your question?

Read the last dozen or so msgs.

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Hello Mortar,

On Wed, Dec 18 2024 20:52:40 -0600, you wrote ..

Anyboy working with Redhat / Alma Linux / Rocky Linux 10.0 Beta?

Heh, at least it's moving in the right direction.

I see what you did there. :P

Regards,
Nick

... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
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On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 09:42:53 -0500
"Amessyroom" (VERT/TL-QWK) <VERT/TL-QWK!Amessyroom@endofthelinebbs.com>
wrote:

Re: Back on Track
By: Mortar to All on Wed Dec 18 2024 12:44 am

Wasn't this supposed to be the Unix board?

LOL

Anyboy working with Redhat / Alma Linux / Rocky Linux 10.0 Beta?

...I used to be indecisive; now I'm not sure.
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toolazy.synchro.net:2323 (telnet)

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I have a bunch of servers that I just updated to RHEL 8 from RHEL
between 5-7 last year. I'm desperately trying to put the customer from
moving to RHEL 9 right now. When these systems were built out the /boot
file system wasn't sized well and nope. it's a disk partition not LVM
so I can't even extend it. I'm going to have a do a bunch of manual
jiggery with all these servers and not looking foward to it. If I can
wait a couple of years, I might be able to offload it to someone else
in the meantime.
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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: nelgin to All on Mon Jan 06 2025 08:35 pm

On Wed, 18 Dec 2024 09:42:53 -0500
"Amessyroom" (VERT/TL-QWK) <VERT/TL-QWK!Amessyroom@endofthelinebbs.com> wrote:

Re: Back on Track
By: Mortar to All on Wed Dec 18 2024 12:44 am

Wasn't this supposed to be the Unix board?

LOL

Anyboy working with Redhat / Alma Linux / Rocky Linux 10.0 Beta?

...I used to be indecisive; now I'm not sure. ---
Amessyroom
toolazy.synchro.net:2323 (telnet)

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I have a bunch of servers that I just updated to RHEL 8 from RHEL between 5-7 last year. I'm desperately trying to put the customer from moving to RHEL 9 right now. When these systems were built out the /boot file system wasn't sized well and nope. it's a disk partition not LVM so I can't even extend it. I'm going to have a do a bunch of manual jiggery with all these servers and not looking foward to it. If I can wait a couple of years, I might be able to offload it to someone else in the meantime.
--

Man that does sound painful. Kinda like the vps my BBS is on; no lvm was used. So I'm stuck with how they built it. I should have taken time to have redone it. But it is for hobby -- and not suppose to be a time sink.

We are just starting to get people on 9. Saw counts today and we have like 200+ on RHEL7. Hope they start moving over to 9 now; they have waited so long now, 8 will be going extended support before you know it. Creeps up on you.

I have a lot of peers that are looking at RHEL 10 being, someone elses problem. The betas were just released for it.

Hope it is someone elses' problem, or you have plenty of time to plan the RHEL9 layout for the migration; to decrease the pain when it occurs.

Have you used any of RHEL's migration tools? We stay away from them. We tell the customer they have to the new OS, and migrate/reinstall their app.

Our windows team does similar; so gives another reason not to use migration tools.

Cool they have them; but sometimes they leave baggage that bites you later down the road.
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toolazy.synchro.net:2323 (telnet)

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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: Amessyroom to nelgin on Tue Jan 07 2025 00:17:38

Man that does sound painful. Kinda like the vps my BBS is on; no lvm was used. So I'm stuck with how they built it. I should have taken time to have redone it. But it is for hobby -- and not suppose to be a time sink.

I expect your VPS isn't more than 50-100GB? You could easily offload the data, reload the OS with LVM and then restore. My VPS provider just creates with one filesystem and extends it so you just have to go into fdisk or whatever, to create a new partition table and then extend the filesystem. Easy enough.

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nelgin wrote to All <=-

I have a bunch of servers that I just updated to RHEL 8 from RHEL
between 5-7 last year. I'm desperately trying to put the customer from moving to RHEL 9 right now. When these systems were built out the /boot file system wasn't sized well and nope. it's a disk partition not LVM
so I can't even extend it. I'm going to have a do a bunch of manual jiggery with all these servers and not looking foward to it. If I can
wait a couple of years, I might be able to offload it to someone else
in the meantime.

I was that guy who got the can kicked down the road. Recently had to
upgrade 50+ servers from Ubuntu 14.04, with tiny /boot partitions.
Thought it would be easier to do incremental upgrades and keep the
configs, in retrospect I should have created new VMs and blown the old
ones away... :(



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nelgin wrote to Amessyroom <=-

I expect your VPS isn't more than 50-100GB? You could easily offload
the data, reload the OS with LVM and then restore. My VPS provider just creates with one filesystem and extends it so you just have to go into fdisk or whatever, to create a new partition table and then extend the filesystem. Easy enough.

Back in the old days, we'd just create a 1gb file and leave it on the
file system. Run out of space? Delete it and revel in your added disk
space. Sort of a poor-man's LVM. :)

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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: poindexter FORTRAN to nelgin on Tue Jan 07 2025 06:46:55

Back in the old days, we'd just create a 1gb file and leave it on the
file system. Run out of space? Delete it and revel in your added disk
space. Sort of a poor-man's LVM. :)

That's kind of odd, but I guess it's one way to get some space back.

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I expect your VPS isn't more than 50-100GB? You could easily offload
the data, reload the OS with LVM and then restore. My VPS provider just creates with one filesystem and extends it so you just have to go into fdisk or whatever, to create a new partition table and then extend the filesystem. Easy enough.

Back in the old days, we'd just create a 1gb file and leave it on the
file system. Run out of space? Delete it and revel in your added disk
space. Sort of a poor-man's LVM. :)

My assumption here is that, once you reached that point, the 1gb would be a good "buffer" but also the need to remove it would be a warning that you
needed to take additional action soon. It doesn't seem to take much to eat
up 1gb pretty quick these days.


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nelgin wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Back in the old days, we'd just create a 1gb file and leave it on the
file system. Run out of space? Delete it and revel in your added disk
space. Sort of a poor-man's LVM. :)

That's kind of odd, but I guess it's one way to get some space back.

Mind you, this was back in the SunOS/early Solaris days before LVM, when
adding disk space usually meant adding another disk and splicing it into
the filesystem somewhere.



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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: poindexter FORTRAN to nelgin on Wed Jan 08 2025 11:26:22

Mind you, this was back in the SunOS/early Solaris days before LVM, when adding disk space usually meant adding another disk and splicing it into
the filesystem somewhere.

Well, that makes more sense.

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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: poindexter FORTRAN to nelgin on Tue Jan 07 2025 06:46 am

configs, in retrospect I should have created new VMs and blown the old
ones away... :(

*mumbles something about "cattle, not pets"*

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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: poindexter FORTRAN to nelgin on Wed Jan 08 2025 11:26 am

nelgin wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

Back in the old days, we'd just create a 1gb file and leave it on the file system. Run out of space? Delete it and revel in your added disk space. Sort of a poor-man's LVM. :)

That's kind of odd, but I guess it's one way to get some space back.

Mind you, this was back in the SunOS/early Solaris days before LVM, when adding disk space usually meant adding another disk and splicing it into
the filesystem somewhere.

ZFS FTW thesedays IMO. Home Built NAS setup.

ISCSI JOBO, Mounted on target servers. Expand as needed.
Full Mirror of the OS in ZFS, can tollerate full disk loss on any of the volumes, including boot drive.

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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: Mrnet to poindexter FORTRAN on Sun Jan 26 2025 04:35 pm

ZFS FTW thesedays IMO. Home Built NA

I thought it was BTRFS...

:)

Still usin' ext4 over here.

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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testi
By: phigan to Mrnet on Sun Jan 26 2025 12:46 pm

Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH

BTRFS is interesting, but it's more of a linux oriented file system. I personally run most of my home lab on just bare bones FreeBSD. On that system, ZFS is really nice. Instant snapshots. Disk Mirrors and pools. Basically the same exact functionality as BTRFS, just not.

I may ruffle some feathers here, but In my opiniong - one of the slight issues I have with Linux over freebsd is the lack of seperation between user installed programs, and system programs. I have had many install's of linux break themselves after an update. The problem just doesn't exist for me on FreeBSD, The base system is completely seperate from user installed programs. I can deliberately update the base version, when I want to - while keeping the userland programs always running on the latest version of them. While also pulling in patches for security problems for the base. There's a seperation there that's in my opinion extremely nice to have.

When It comes to file servers. That stability - is essential. Especially when everything else relies on it. If the foundation breaks, the whole stack falls. I've spent many sleepless nights trying to un-bork a linux installation after a failed update. I supose BTRFS helps fix this slight issue now, but when I was using Linux on my fileserver it was not an option. On ZFS - I can basiclaly do a rollback to a previous snapshot - if something screws up. On FreeBSD it's been stable enough that i've never had to. I't's been running now for 5 base versions, without a screw up in the update process. I've never gone that long on linux without having to do a full reinstall.

I absolutely love and use linux too, so don't get me wrong.

Recently I have started trying the declarative system called NixOS... tho, I'm personally finding it a bit too "obscure" in it's documentation, as it seems to me they keep changing how to do things, and I'm back to the problem of having to spend 90% of my time reading the manual trying to figure out WTF is going on, instead of actually geting something done.

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Mrnet wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

ZFS FTW thesedays IMO. Home Built NAS setup.

ISCSI JOBO, Mounted on target servers. Expand as needed.
Full Mirror of the OS in ZFS, can tollerate full disk loss on any of
the volumes, including boot drive.

Nice. I've heard lots of good things about ZFS, not in a place to use it
(yet). My servers are all running on raid-nothing with a NAS NFS share
for data. I've got 2 backups, one is a file copy of the BBS VM, the
other is a full system backup and VM-level backup (fingers crossed)




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Mrnet wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

ZFS FTW thesedays IMO. Home Built NAS setup.

ISCSI JOBO, Mounted on target servers. Expand as needed.
Full Mirror of the OS in ZFS, can tollerate full disk loss on any of
the volumes, including boot drive.

Nice. I've heard lots of good things about ZFS, not in a place to use it
(yet). My servers are all running on raid-nothing with a NAS NFS share
for data. I've got 2 backups, one is a file copy of the BBS VM, the
other is a full system backup and VM-level backup (fingers crossed)




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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Mrnet on Mon Jan 27 2025 08:12 am

Interesting. Yeah, I'm looking at ways to setup tiers of storage.
Some things need to be online all the time - for access - others can be turned off to save power and wear and tear on the disks.
One of the problems with using a single server for the bulk of my storage, is that server has to be on all the time and it's quite loud when it contains all those drives.
So I'm thinking about building a small fanless as possible, NVME storage server, with a couple large "BULK" drives to use as "Hot" Data, then potentially using scripts - wake on lan - etc, to trigger another bulk storage server to come online and accept a backup dump, then turn off.
I'm sure there's multiple ways to do something like that, just have to think about it a bit more, & of course collect the funds to buy the toys.

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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: Mrnet to poindexter FORTRAN on Wed Jan 29 2025 03:00 am

contains all those drives.
So I'm thinking about building a small fanless as possible, NVME storage server, with a couple large "BULK" drives to use as "Hot" Data, then potentially using scripts - wake on lan - etc, to trigger another bulk storage server to come online and accept a backup dump, then turn off.
I'm sure there's multiple ways to do something like that, just have to think

stuff nowadays uses such little power. you can get the system with the fans. you can leave it on all the time. you don't need to power it down.
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Mrnet wrote to poindexter FORTRAN <=-

problems with using a single server for the bulk of my storage, is that server has to be on all the time and it's quite loud when it contains
all those drives. So I'm thinking about building a small fanless as possible, NVME storage server

I like the idea of NVMes for online storage and louder nearline
storage. There used to be enterprise systems that would groom your
data, moving infrequently accessed data to slower drives, and
ultimately to WORM drives for archival access.

I have 5 2tb drives, and the drive head seeking sounds are driving me
crazy. I should try to justify replacing them with SSD for... (checks IT
excuse list) Increased MTBF, lower thermal footprint and decreased
power consumption.





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Re: Re: Back on Track / Beta Testing RH
By: poindexter FORTRAN to Mrnet on Wed Jan 29 2025 06:31 am

I have 5 2tb drives, and the drive head seeking sounds are driving me
crazy. I should try to justify replacing them with SSD for... (checks IT
excuse list) Increased MTBF, lower thermal footprint and decreased
power consumption.

why would you even have 5 2tb drives in this day and are? is your company cheap?
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