I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the
ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient.
However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and
the pros and cons.
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the
ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient. However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more
capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not
kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and
the pros and cons.
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the
ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very
convenient. However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs
that are more capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim
rig. I'd rather transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking
for something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment.
I've not kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is
available and the pros and cons.
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the
ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient.
However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and
the pros and cons.
On 21-May-2020, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article <ra6j0s$e4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the
ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an
analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient.
However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more
capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather
transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for
something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not
kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and
the pros and cons.
I'm by no means a virtualization expert, having come to it some 10 years ago and it became a major part of my day job.
One thing that non-techies forget--TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a free lunch). You're essentially timesharing the computers resources between environments. That costs something. Bootcamp doesn't timeshare. You're running Windows with drivers that specifically support Mac hardware. Try and install Windows on a Mac directly and you're going to be in Frustration City. Install Ubuntu instead. At least that works. Sort of.
You're either running the native OS that the game was designed to run under or you're running a virtual machine (VM) of the OS ON TOP of Mac OS. Some OS' are better at "getting out of the way" to allow the underlaying VM access to the hardware. That's why VMware as a company still exists, IMO.
I'm sure some games do a lot of jiggery-pokery with hardware to obtain the type of Real Time Graphics response for a player. The OS the game is written for has drivers for the hardware that allow this. I recall reading about a vendor who's open sourced a graphics driver for Linux so that gamers can try a game on Linux. This way lies madness and disappointment.
A VM isn't Windows with direct access to hardware. If you plug a USB drive into a Mac running VMware Fusion, a window pops up to ask "Do you want to mount this drive on MacOS or Windows?" This is OK for a USB drive but not necessarily for a specialized GPU that's part of the new MacPro. Would a game even recognize such a specialized beast since it doesn't exist in the PC world? Kudos if the game vendor codes support for that.
If your game needs direct access to hardware to run the graphics, I don't think VMs will help you. Nor will the VM emulate a GPU like it does an ethernet NIC or USB drive or CDROM.
Stick with Bootcamp for your Sim Racing, then boot MacOS to do the analysis of what you've collected.If the game works on Fusion or Parallels, you'll have the best of both worlds.
Try VirtualBox for free but you'll have to buy a copy of Windows to run your game on it. If it works well enough, you're good to go. Otherwise you'll have to decide if Bootcamp and rebooting is OK or you're gonna spend for VMware's Fusion or Parallels.
That's your call.
On 2020-05-21 15:29, Percival John Hackworth wrote:
On 21-May-2020, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article <ra6j0s$e4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the
ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an
analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient. >>> However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more
capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather
transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for >>> something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not
kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and
the pros and cons.
I'm by no means a virtualization expert, having come to it some 10 years ago >> and it became a major part of my day job.
One thing that non-techies forget--TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a >> free lunch). You're essentially timesharing the computers resources between >> environments. That costs something. Bootcamp doesn't timeshare. You're
running Windows with drivers that specifically support Mac hardware. Try and >> install Windows on a Mac directly and you're going to be in Frustration City.
Install Ubuntu instead. At least that works. Sort of.
This is misleading.
VM's run on the hardware. It's not emulation. So whatever task you're doing on the whole machine, you would have been doing it under one OS or
the other in any case.
Besides, when running bootcamp you can't drag and drop files between the
two OS's like you can, seamlessly, with a VM. That is a key benefit.
Yes, there's a "cost", but it is extremely minimal. The x86 processor
has many features designed solely with VMs in mind - likewise Mac OS.
And Parallels is even better at getting out of the way per tests done a
few years ago. (I use VMWare Fusion because I always have, but I could switch...)
VB is nowhere as good as Fusion (VMWare) or Parallels. It would be like taking a Honda Civic for a test drive to decide on buying a Honda Accord
2L Turbo.
Exclude the VM from Time Machine - TM will backup the entire VM each
time you close the VM since "something" no matter how small will change
in the VM file. The VM file is huge and will fill your TM volume
quickly (not to mention a very long backup time).
Instead, manually backup the VM. (Simple drag of "VMBundle" in finder
to the backup folder) or use some scheduled process to do so. Ideally, never backup the VM while it is running.
I would try Wine first, and if that doesn't work I' use a VM. My current favorite is VMware Fusion, but Parallels Desktop is another good choice.
AS you may know, there are a few different ways to run Windows apps on
Macs, ranked from least expensive to most expensive:
Wine
You can use Wine, a freeware application that provides a Windows compatibility layer, to run Windows apps without the Windows operating system.
On 5/21/20 4:43 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
I would try Wine first, and if that doesn't work I' use a VM. My current
favorite is VMware Fusion, but Parallels Desktop is another good choice.
AS you may know, there are a few different ways to run Windows apps on
Macs, ranked from least expensive to most expensive:
Wine
You can use Wine, a freeware application that provides a Windows
compatibility layer, to run Windows apps without the Windows operating
system.
I thought I had followed up to this but it hasn't posted so I must have screwed up.
Since I am only trying to run one program, Wine looks like a good way to
go. However, I found the Wine web site, winehq.org, and discovered
Catalina is not currently supported. I'm still running Mojave but that
is only because a key app I run also doesn't work under Catalina yet.
Any idea when/if Wine will support Catalina?
I have steered clear of bootcamp because I didn't really want to boot
into a totally separate OS. To the extent possible I would like to stay
in Mac OS. My PC is on the same network as my Mac and it is easy to
drag files over.
If Wine doesn't work I'll check out VMfusion and parallels, but I hope I don't have to install an entire OS in order to run one program.
In message <uq2dna6bsMR9TFrDnZ2dnUU7-UvNnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-21 15:29, Percival John Hackworth wrote:
On 21-May-2020, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article <ra6j0s$e4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the
ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an
analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient. >>>> However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more
capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather >>>> transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for >>>> something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not >>>> kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and >>>> the pros and cons.
I'm by no means a virtualization expert, having come to it some 10 years ago
and it became a major part of my day job.
One thing that non-techies forget--TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a
free lunch). You're essentially timesharing the computers resources between >>> environments. That costs something. Bootcamp doesn't timeshare. You're
running Windows with drivers that specifically support Mac hardware. Try and
install Windows on a Mac directly and you're going to be in Frustration City.
Install Ubuntu instead. At least that works. Sort of.
This is misleading.
VM's run on the hardware. It's not emulation. So whatever task you're
doing on the whole machine, you would have been doing it under one OS or
the other in any case.
Besides, when running bootcamp you can't drag and drop files between the
two OS's like you can, seamlessly, with a VM. That is a key benefit.
Yes, there's a "cost", but it is extremely minimal. The x86 processor
has many features designed solely with VMs in mind - likewise Mac OS.
The only place it really makes a difference that may be notiable is in
games, and even there, it has to be a twitchy game and you have to be
good at it.
And Parallels is even better at getting out of the way per tests done a
few years ago. (I use VMWare Fusion because I always have, but I could
switch...)
I've used both, but not recently. My impression of the current state from others is that Parallels is slightly faster and VMware Fusion is
slightly more stable.
What I do not like about them is you have to buy the software again
every year, and I have little enough need to Windows that it is simply
not worth it.
VB is nowhere as good as Fusion (VMWare) or Parallels. It would be like
taking a Honda Civic for a test drive to decide on buying a Honda Accord
2L Turbo.
I don't understand your car reference, but VirtualBox is a significant
step down in usability, features, stability, and speed over VM Ware
Fusion or Parallels. It is fine to use in a pinch, or because you need to
run some windows software (though wine is usually just as good), but I
would not use it with any games.
On 5/21/20 4:43 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
I would try Wine first, and if that doesn't work I' use a VM. My current
favorite is VMware Fusion, but Parallels Desktop is another good choice.
AS you may know, there are a few different ways to run Windows apps on
Macs, ranked from least expensive to most expensive:
Wine
You can use Wine, a freeware application that provides a Windows
compatibility layer, to run Windows apps without the Windows operating
system.
I thought I had followed up to this but it hasn't posted so I must have screwed up.
Since I am only trying to run one program, Wine looks like a good way to go. However, I found the Wine web site, winehq.org, and discovered Catalina is not currently supported. I'm still running Mojave but that
is only because a key app I run also doesn't work under Catalina yet.
Any idea when/if Wine will support Catalina?
I have steered clear of bootcamp because I didn't really want to boot
into a totally separate OS. To the extent possible I would like to stay
in Mac OS. My PC is on the same network as my Mac and it is easy to
drag files over.
If Wine doesn't work I'll check out VMfusion and parallels, but I hope I don't have to install an entire OS in order to run one program.
On 2020-05-22 10:53, Lewis wrote:
In message <uq2dna6bsMR9TFrDnZ2dnUU7-UvNnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-21 15:29, Percival John Hackworth wrote:
On 21-May-2020, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article <ra6j0s$e4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the
ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an >>>>> analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient. >>>>> However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more >>>>> capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather >>>>> transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for >>>>> something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not >>>>> kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and >>>>> the pros and cons.
I'm by no means a virtualization expert, having come to it some 10 years ago
and it became a major part of my day job.
One thing that non-techies forget--TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a
free lunch). You're essentially timesharing the computers resources between
environments. That costs something. Bootcamp doesn't timeshare. You're >>>> running Windows with drivers that specifically support Mac hardware. Try and
install Windows on a Mac directly and you're going to be in Frustration City.
Install Ubuntu instead. At least that works. Sort of.
This is misleading.
VM's run on the hardware. It's not emulation. So whatever task you're
doing on the whole machine, you would have been doing it under one OS or >>> the other in any case.
Besides, when running bootcamp you can't drag and drop files between the >>> two OS's like you can, seamlessly, with a VM. That is a key benefit.
Yes, there's a "cost", but it is extremely minimal. The x86 processor
has many features designed solely with VMs in mind - likewise Mac OS.
The only place it really makes a difference that may be notiable is in
games, and even there, it has to be a twitchy game and you have to be
good at it.
And Parallels is even better at getting out of the way per tests done a
few years ago. (I use VMWare Fusion because I always have, but I could
switch...)
I've used both, but not recently. My impression of the current state from
others is that Parallels is slightly faster and VMware Fusion is
slightly more stable.
What I do not like about them is you have to buy the software again
every year, and I have little enough need to Windows that it is simply
not worth it.
No you don't.
I pay to upgrade it every few years.
Then I lose eligibility (age of the v. I have) and have to buy the
complete package. It's useful enough to me for both personal and
business that it's worth the cost. But it's not an "annual"
re-purchase at all.
VB is nowhere as good as Fusion (VMWare) or Parallels. It would be like >>> taking a Honda Civic for a test drive to decide on buying a Honda Accord >>> 2L Turbo.
I don't understand your car reference, but VirtualBox is a significant
step down in usability, features, stability, and speed over VM Ware
Fusion or Parallels. It is fine to use in a pinch, or because you need to
run some windows software (though wine is usually just as good), but I
would not use it with any games.
Well, I could have gone with LADA v. Honda Accord.
On 5/21/20 4:43 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
I would try Wine first, and if that doesn't work I' use a VM. My current
favorite is VMware Fusion, but Parallels Desktop is another good choice.
AS you may know, there are a few different ways to run Windows apps on
Macs, ranked from least expensive to most expensive:
Wine
You can use Wine, a freeware application that provides a Windows
compatibility layer, to run Windows apps without the Windows operating
system.
I thought I had followed up to this but it hasn't posted so I must have screwed up.
Since I am only trying to run one program, Wine looks like a good way to
go. However, I found the Wine web site, winehq.org, and discovered
Catalina is not currently supported. I'm still running Mojave but that
is only because a key app I run also doesn't work under Catalina yet.
Any idea when/if Wine will support Catalina?
I have steered clear of bootcamp because I didn't really want to boot
into a totally separate OS. To the extent possible I would like to stay
in Mac OS. My PC is on the same network as my Mac and it is easy to
drag files over.
If Wine doesn't work I'll check out VMfusion and parallels, but I hope I don't have to install an entire OS in order to run one program.
On 2020-05-22 13:48, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/21/20 4:43 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
I would try Wine first, and if that doesn't work I' use a VM. My
current favorite is VMware Fusion, but Parallels Desktop is another
good choice. AS you may know, there are a few different ways to run
Windows apps on Macs, ranked from least expensive to most expensive:
Wine
You can use Wine, a freeware application that provides a Windows
compatibility layer, to run Windows apps without the Windows
operating system.
I thought I had followed up to this but it hasn't posted so I must
have screwed up.
Since I am only trying to run one program, Wine looks like a good way
to go. However, I found the Wine web site, winehq.org, and
discovered Catalina is not currently supported. I'm still running
Mojave but that is only because a key app I run also doesn't work
under Catalina yet. Any idea when/if Wine will support Catalina?
I used Wine about 5 years ago with little overall success. I don't
recall the issue but the app I "wined" lost some functionality in the
process and also had some strange display behaviour.
I pay to upgrade it every few years.
Then you are not keeping your systems up to date. Parallels specifically broke their software with new versions of the OS for several years
running. I do not know if they still do that, but they did and I stopped using it.
In article <slrnrcghqk.4a1.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>, Lewis
<g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
I pay to upgrade it every few years.
Then you are not keeping your systems up to date. Parallels specifically
broke their software with new versions of the OS for several years
running. I do not know if they still do that, but they did and I stopped
using it.
parallels also has embedded ads, which is when they immediately went
onto my shitlist, and it looks like they *still* do that.
On 2020-05-21 15:29, Percival John Hackworth wrote:
On 21-May-2020, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article <ra6j0s$e4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient. However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and the pros and cons.
I'm by no means a virtualization expert, having come to it some 10 years ago
and it became a major part of my day job.
One thing that non-techies forget--TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a
free lunch). You're essentially timesharing the computers resources between environments. That costs something. Bootcamp doesn't timeshare. You're running Windows with drivers that specifically support Mac hardware. Try and
install Windows on a Mac directly and you're going to be in Frustration City.
Install Ubuntu instead. At least that works. Sort of.
This is misleading.
VM's run on the hardware. It's not emulation. So whatever task you're
doing on the whole machine, you would have been doing it under one OS or
the other in any case.
Besides, when running bootcamp you can't drag and drop files between the
two OS's like you can, seamlessly, with a VM. That is a key benefit.
Yes, there's a "cost", but it is extremely minimal. The x86 processor
has many features designed solely with VMs in mind - likewise Mac OS.
You're either running the native OS that the game was designed to run under or you're running a virtual machine (VM) of the OS ON TOP of Mac OS. Some OS'
are better at "getting out of the way" to allow the underlaying VM access to
the hardware. That's why VMware as a company still exists, IMO.
VMWare is much much more than desktop VM's. VM's are not a new thing -
they go back to the 60's.
And Parallels is even better at getting out of the way per tests done a
few years ago. (I use VMWare Fusion because I always have, but I could switch...)
I'm sure some games do a lot of jiggery-pokery with hardware to obtain the type of Real Time Graphics response for a player. The OS the game is written
for has drivers for the hardware that allow this. I recall reading about a vendor who's open sourced a graphics driver for Linux so that gamers can try
a game on Linux. This way lies madness and disappointment.
A VM isn't Windows with direct access to hardware. If you plug a USB drive into a Mac running VMware Fusion, a window pops up to ask "Do you want to mount this drive on MacOS or Windows?" This is OK for a USB drive but not necessarily for a specialized GPU that's part of the new MacPro. Would a game
even recognize such a specialized beast since it doesn't exist in the PC world? Kudos if the game vendor codes support for that.
If your game needs direct access to hardware to run the graphics, I don't think VMs will help you. Nor will the VM emulate a GPU like it does an ethernet NIC or USB drive or CDROM.
VM's don't emulate. They "connect". That's a key difference you don't
seem to get.
IAC, sim racing is not "gaming".
Stick with Bootcamp for your Sim Racing, then boot MacOS to do the analysis of what you've collected.If the game works on Fusion or Parallels, you'll have the best of both worlds.
Try VirtualBox for free but you'll have to buy a copy of Windows to run your
game on it. If it works well enough, you're good to go. Otherwise you'll have
to decide if Bootcamp and rebooting is OK or you're gonna spend for VMware's
Fusion or Parallels.
That's your call.
VB is nowhere as good as Fusion (VMWare) or Parallels. It would be like taking a Honda Civic for a test drive to decide on buying a Honda Accord
2L Turbo.
In article <slrnrcghqk.4a1.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
I pay to upgrade it every few years.
Then you are not keeping your systems up to date. Parallels specifically broke their software with new versions of the OS for several years
running. I do not know if they still do that, but they did and I stopped using it.
parallels also has embedded ads, which is when they immediately went
onto my shitlist, and it looks like they *still* do that.
from 2012:
<https://forum.parallels.com/threads/turn-off-ads.258991/>
How do I turn off the ads? If I pay for a product I should not be
forced to deal with ads. By the way Avast detects your ad loader
as a Trojan. Win32:Adloader-AC. Is Parallels using Trojans on its
paying and trusting customers?
...
I can confirm that my previous post in this very thread got deleted,
likely because I dared to mention details on how exactly to turn the
ads off. This speaks volumes of the attitude of this company to its
paying customers. Yes, they are on the forum, they are listening,
and the ads and a non-functional "disable" checkbox are a conscious
business decision.
...
official response (after a slew of angry posts): <https://forum.parallels.com/threads/turn-off-ads.258991/page-2#post-632
We use in-product notifications to share several types of information
with our customers. First, and most importantly, we share information
about product updates which are generally related to compatibility
with OS X, new features and product enhancements. Second, we
occasionally share special offers from Parallels or other third party
companies who provide special deals for our customers. Many of our
customers rely on the information about product updates and
appreciate the special deals for products that are of interest to
them.
Individual notifications can be turned off by clicking the dont show
this again button. However, because customers need to receive
important product information, there is not a mechanism for customers
to completely disable notifications.
Thank you for sharing your opinion. At times, Parallels staff may
remove or edit posts that contain product code information which
changes the general nature of the product, as it may affect the
overall performance of the software.
and it looks like they're still doing it in 2020: <https://forum.parallels.com/threads/push-notification-advertisements-ar e-not-ok.349267/>
I just got an *ad* via notification from Parallels (for $949 worth
of software for $39.99!) , and I just wanted to say this is
unacceptable. Save that sort of nonsense for promotional e-mails
where I can completely ignore them, never make it pop up on my
desktop. That commercial software I pay for would do this is simply
offensive. So, here's my new notification setting for Parallels:
Whatever you do, do backups of the entire "VMBundle" from time to time.
Over those 12 years I've had a "damaged" VM that I could not get to
recover at least 2 times. The backup "paved" that over.
Exclude the VM from Time Machine - TM will backup the entire VM each
time you close the VM since "something" no matter how small will change
in the VM file. The VM file is huge and will fill your TM volume
quickly (not to mention a very long backup time).
Instead, manually backup the VM. (Simple drag of "VMBundle" in finder
to the backup folder) or use some scheduled process to do so. Ideally, never backup the VM while it is running.
On 2020-05-22, nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> wrote:
In article <slrnrcghqk.4a1.g.kreme@ProMini.lan>, Lewis >><g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
I pay to upgrade it every few years.
Then you are not keeping your systems up to date. Parallels specifically >>> broke their software with new versions of the OS for several years
running. I do not know if they still do that, but they did and I stopped >>> using it.
parallels also has embedded ads, which is when they immediately went
onto my shitlist, and it looks like they *still* do that.
Wow. Fuck that. Glad I ended up sticking with VMware Fusion.
I believe you'd be better off overall to simply remote log into your PC
from the Mac. RealVNC has tools for that. Then you can "window" on the PC from the Mac and transferring files can be done several ways. https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/vnc/
If you have a PC then use it to run your windows programs?
On 5/22/20 3:26 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
I believe you'd be better off overall to simply remote log into your
PC from the Mac. RealVNC has tools for that. Then you can "window"
on the PC from the Mac and transferring files can be done several ways.
https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/vnc/
Didn't know I could do that. I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
On 5/23/20 11:34 AM, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/22/20 3:26 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
I believe you'd be better off overall to simply remote log into your
PC from the Mac. RealVNC has tools for that. Then you can "window"
on the PC from the Mac and transferring files can be done several ways.
https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/vnc/
Didn't know I could do that. I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
I was able to download this and get it working. I haven't tried to do anything yet but it looks good so far. Thanks.
On 5/22/20 5:46 PM, Lewis wrote:
If you have a PC then use it to run your windows programs?
It is a dedicated racing sim PC. I've tried running other programs and
it isn't really comfortable.
I much prefer sitting at my desk for this
kind of stuff. I'm going to look into VNC to see if that might be the
way to do it.
In message <1_WdndOiSJmNuFXDnZ2dnUU7-N3NnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-22 10:53, Lewis wrote:
In message <uq2dna6bsMR9TFrDnZ2dnUU7-UvNnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-21 15:29, Percival John Hackworth wrote:
On 21-May-2020, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article <ra6j0s$e4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the >>>>>> ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an >>>>>> analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient. >>>>>> However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more >>>>>> capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather >>>>>> transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for >>>>>> something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not >>>>>> kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and >>>>>> the pros and cons.
I'm by no means a virtualization expert, having come to it some 10 years ago
and it became a major part of my day job.
One thing that non-techies forget--TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a
free lunch). You're essentially timesharing the computers resources between
environments. That costs something. Bootcamp doesn't timeshare. You're >>>>> running Windows with drivers that specifically support Mac hardware. Try and
install Windows on a Mac directly and you're going to be in Frustration City.
Install Ubuntu instead. At least that works. Sort of.
This is misleading.
VM's run on the hardware. It's not emulation. So whatever task you're >>>> doing on the whole machine, you would have been doing it under one OS or >>>> the other in any case.
Besides, when running bootcamp you can't drag and drop files between the >>>> two OS's like you can, seamlessly, with a VM. That is a key benefit.
Yes, there's a "cost", but it is extremely minimal. The x86 processor >>>> has many features designed solely with VMs in mind - likewise Mac OS.
The only place it really makes a difference that may be notiable is in
games, and even there, it has to be a twitchy game and you have to be
good at it.
And Parallels is even better at getting out of the way per tests done a >>>> few years ago. (I use VMWare Fusion because I always have, but I could >>>> switch...)
I've used both, but not recently. My impression of the current state from >>> others is that Parallels is slightly faster and VMware Fusion is
slightly more stable.
What I do not like about them is you have to buy the software again
every year, and I have little enough need to Windows that it is simply
not worth it.
No you don't.
Do.
I pay to upgrade it every few years.
Then you are not keeping your systems up to date. Parallels specifically broke their software with new versions of the OS for several years
running. I do not know if they still do that, but they did and I stopped using it.
Then I lose eligibility (age of the v. I have) and have to buy the
complete package. It's useful enough to me for both personal and
business that it's worth the cost. But it's not an "annual"
re-purchase at all.
When you charge 80% of the purchase price for an update that does
nothing but work on your current OS it is close enough.
On 22-May-2020, Alan Browne wrote
(in article<uq2dna6bsMR9TFrDnZ2dnUU7-UvNnZ2d@giganews.com>):
On 2020-05-21 15:29, Percival John Hackworth wrote:
On 21-May-2020, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article <ra6j0s$e4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the
ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an
analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient. >>>> However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more
capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather >>>> transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for >>>> something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not >>>> kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and >>>> the pros and cons.
I'm by no means a virtualization expert, having come to it some 10 years ago
and it became a major part of my day job.
One thing that non-techies forget--TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a
free lunch). You're essentially timesharing the computers resources between >>> environments. That costs something. Bootcamp doesn't timeshare. You're
running Windows with drivers that specifically support Mac hardware. Try and
install Windows on a Mac directly and you're going to be in Frustration
City.
Install Ubuntu instead. At least that works. Sort of.
This is misleading.
VM's run on the hardware. It's not emulation. So whatever task you're
doing on the whole machine, you would have been doing it under one OS or
the other in any case.
Besides, when running bootcamp you can't drag and drop files between the
two OS's like you can, seamlessly, with a VM. That is a key benefit.
Yes, there's a "cost", but it is extremely minimal. The x86 processor
has many features designed solely with VMs in mind - likewise Mac OS.
You're either running the native OS that the game was designed to run under >>> or you're running a virtual machine (VM) of the OS ON TOP of Mac OS. Some >>> OS'
are better at "getting out of the way" to allow the underlaying VM access to
the hardware. That's why VMware as a company still exists, IMO.
VMWare is much much more than desktop VM's. VM's are not a new thing -
they go back to the 60's.
And Parallels is even better at getting out of the way per tests done a
few years ago. (I use VMWare Fusion because I always have, but I could
switch...)
I'm sure some games do a lot of jiggery-pokery with hardware to obtain the >>> type of Real Time Graphics response for a player. The OS the game is written
for has drivers for the hardware that allow this. I recall reading about a >>> vendor who's open sourced a graphics driver for Linux so that gamers can try
a game on Linux. This way lies madness and disappointment.
A VM isn't Windows with direct access to hardware. If you plug a USB drive >>> into a Mac running VMware Fusion, a window pops up to ask "Do you want to >>> mount this drive on MacOS or Windows?" This is OK for a USB drive but not >>> necessarily for a specialized GPU that's part of the new MacPro. Would a >>> game
even recognize such a specialized beast since it doesn't exist in the PC >>> world? Kudos if the game vendor codes support for that.
If your game needs direct access to hardware to run the graphics, I don't >>> think VMs will help you. Nor will the VM emulate a GPU like it does an
ethernet NIC or USB drive or CDROM.
VM's don't emulate. They "connect". That's a key difference you don't
seem to get.
IAC, sim racing is not "gaming".
Stick with Bootcamp for your Sim Racing, then boot MacOS to do the analysis >>> of what you've collected.If the game works on Fusion or Parallels, you'll >>> have the best of both worlds.
Try VirtualBox for free but you'll have to buy a copy of Windows to run your
game on it. If it works well enough, you're good to go. Otherwise you'll >>> have
to decide if Bootcamp and rebooting is OK or you're gonna spend for VMware's
Fusion or Parallels.
That's your call.
VB is nowhere as good as Fusion (VMWare) or Parallels. It would be like
taking a Honda Civic for a test drive to decide on buying a Honda Accord
2L Turbo.
My apologies for not making it clear. I know the x86 instruction isn't being "emulated" by the current batch of VM software. My key point is that to access the GPU and other specific hardware under Windows, the OS does so through the drivers written for Windows. To do the same under Fusion/Parallels, the software has to go through the Windows virtual machine, which is "trapped" by Fusion/Parallels and the Windows API representing an ethernet NIC or a USB card or a CDROM (which is pretending to be that card which may or may not exist on your Mac...my ethernet NIC on my MacPro isn't a what VMware is presenting to Windows--to me that's emulating the NIC, but I quibble).
The GPU these games might use from Nvidia may not work on a MacPro. They certainly won't exist on a laptop. So Fusion/Parallels traps those HW calls or tells the Windows VM "I don't have that hardware".
While I wrote my post, it occurred to me that perhaps the OP could create their analysis code and program in a Docker container. It would use whatever OS they decide on inside the container, run the results using the Dockerized environment and run under W10's Docker or MacOS' Docker.
On 2020-05-22, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-22 13:48, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/21/20 4:43 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
I would try Wine first, and if that doesn't work I' use a VM. My
current favorite is VMware Fusion, but Parallels Desktop is another
good choice. AS you may know, there are a few different ways to run
Windows apps on Macs, ranked from least expensive to most expensive:
Wine
You can use Wine, a freeware application that provides a Windows
compatibility layer, to run Windows apps without the Windows
operating system.
I thought I had followed up to this but it hasn't posted so I must
have screwed up.
Since I am only trying to run one program, Wine looks like a good way
to go. However, I found the Wine web site, winehq.org, and
discovered Catalina is not currently supported. I'm still running
Mojave but that is only because a key app I run also doesn't work
under Catalina yet. Any idea when/if Wine will support Catalina?
I used Wine about 5 years ago with little overall success. I don't
recall the issue but the app I "wined" lost some functionality in the
process and also had some strange display behaviour.
I've used Wine for many years, with plenty of success running several different Windows apps, ranging from various small utilities to Call of
Duty 4: Modern Warfare.
On 5/23/20 4:49 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/23/20 11:34 AM, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/22/20 3:26 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
I believe you'd be better off overall to simply remote log into your
PC from the Mac. RealVNC has tools for that. Then you can "window" >>>> on the PC from the Mac and transferring files can be done several ways. >>>> https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/vnc/
Didn't know I could do that. I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
I was able to download this and get it working. I haven't tried to do
anything yet but it looks good so far. Thanks.
OK. Apparently I can do anything on the PC but I can't move files back
and forth using the personal version. Fortunately I can do that with
file sharing so I think I'm in good shape. Thanks, again.
On 2020-05-22 17:42, Lewis wrote:
In message <1_WdndOiSJmNuFXDnZ2dnUU7-N3NnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-22 10:53, Lewis wrote:
In message <uq2dna6bsMR9TFrDnZ2dnUU7-UvNnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-21 15:29, Percival John Hackworth wrote:The only place it really makes a difference that may be notiable is in >>>> games, and even there, it has to be a twitchy game and you have to be
On 21-May-2020, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article <ra6j0s$e4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the >>>>>>> ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an >>>>>>> analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient.
However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more >>>>>>> capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather >>>>>>> transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for
something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not >>>>>>> kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and >>>>>>> the pros and cons.
I'm by no means a virtualization expert, having come to it some 10 years ago
and it became a major part of my day job.
One thing that non-techies forget--TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a
free lunch). You're essentially timesharing the computers resources between
environments. That costs something. Bootcamp doesn't timeshare. You're >>>>>> running Windows with drivers that specifically support Mac hardware. Try and
install Windows on a Mac directly and you're going to be in Frustration City.
Install Ubuntu instead. At least that works. Sort of.
This is misleading.
VM's run on the hardware. It's not emulation. So whatever task you're >>>>> doing on the whole machine, you would have been doing it under one OS or >>>>> the other in any case.
Besides, when running bootcamp you can't drag and drop files between the >>>>> two OS's like you can, seamlessly, with a VM. That is a key benefit. >>>>
Yes, there's a "cost", but it is extremely minimal. The x86 processor >>>>> has many features designed solely with VMs in mind - likewise Mac OS. >>>>
good at it.
And Parallels is even better at getting out of the way per tests done a >>>>> few years ago. (I use VMWare Fusion because I always have, but I could >>>>> switch...)
I've used both, but not recently. My impression of the current state from >>>> others is that Parallels is slightly faster and VMware Fusion is
slightly more stable.
What I do not like about them is you have to buy the software again
every year, and I have little enough need to Windows that it is simply >>>> not worth it.
No you don't.
Do.
No you do not _have_ to do so annually. There is no contractual or (usually) any technical reason to do so.
It only has to be up-to-date enough. I've been running Fusion since
2008 and only paid for updates 4 times. No issues.
On 2020-05-23 18:35, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/23/20 4:49 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/23/20 11:34 AM, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/22/20 3:26 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
I believe you'd be better off overall to simply remote log into your >>>>> PC from the Mac. RealVNC has tools for that. Then you can "window" >>>>> on the PC from the Mac and transferring files can be done several ways. >>>>> https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/vnc/
Didn't know I could do that. I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
I was able to download this and get it working. I haven't tried to do >>> anything yet but it looks good so far. Thanks.
OK. Apparently I can do anything on the PC but I can't move files back
and forth using the personal version. Fortunately I can do that with
file sharing so I think I'm in good shape. Thanks, again.
I realized this might be your better solution (not to mention gratis) as
I have a remote Linux box doing protein folding downstairs using the powerful GPU on that machine. I monitor it from here. I may also begin doing handbrake jobs on there controlled from here but I can't seem to
get Handbrake / HBCLI to use the GPU.
In message <I9vyG.211424$872.15080@fx38.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-23 18:35, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/23/20 4:49 PM, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/23/20 11:34 AM, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/22/20 3:26 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
I believe you'd be better off overall to simply remote log into your >>>>>> PC from the Mac. RealVNC has tools for that. Then you can "window" >>>>>> on the PC from the Mac and transferring files can be done several ways. >>>>>> https://www.realvnc.com/en/connect/download/vnc/
Didn't know I could do that. I'll have to check it out. Thanks.
I was able to download this and get it working. I haven't tried to do >>>> anything yet but it looks good so far. Thanks.
OK. Apparently I can do anything on the PC but I can't move files back >>> and forth using the personal version. Fortunately I can do that with
file sharing so I think I'm in good shape. Thanks, again.
I realized this might be your better solution (not to mention gratis) as
I have a remote Linux box doing protein folding downstairs using the
powerful GPU on that machine. I monitor it from here. I may also begin
doing handbrake jobs on there controlled from here but I can't seem to
get Handbrake / HBCLI to use the GPU.
Assuming you have an nvidia GPU, you use the nvenc_h265 encoder. If you
have a Mac with a recent Intel chip with hardware encoding.decoding you use...
Oh crap, I've forgotten.
AppleToolbox? VideoToolbox? Something like that, but I haven't done that
from the command line (I was using ffmpeg instead).
In Handbrake you setup your custom profile in the GUI, then use it via
the -z flag from the command line. At least last time I looked, there
was no way to directly access the hardware encoders from the command
line without a saved profile.
ah, I found this in my history:
HandBrakeCLI -e vt_h265 -i <file> -o <newfile>
which used the intel hardwarede encoding on my 8th gen i7. I would guess
-e nvenc_h265 will get you the nvidia hardware.
In message <U_uyG.159499$2e3.116562@fx35.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-22 17:42, Lewis wrote:
In message <1_WdndOiSJmNuFXDnZ2dnUU7-N3NnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-22 10:53, Lewis wrote:
In message <uq2dna6bsMR9TFrDnZ2dnUU7-UvNnZ2d@giganews.com> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-21 15:29, Percival John Hackworth wrote:The only place it really makes a difference that may be notiable is in >>>>> games, and even there, it has to be a twitchy game and you have to be >>>>> good at it.
On 21-May-2020, Robert Peirce wrote
(in article <ra6j0s$e4k$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
I have a PC I use strictly for sim racing. The sim program has the >>>>>>>> ability to generate various driving data. So far I have been using an >>>>>>>> analysis program that runs on Windows and Macs so it is very convenient.
However, it s a bit limited. There are PC only programs that are more >>>>>>>> capable but it is not convenient to run them on the sim rig. I'd rather
transfer the data to my Mac and analyze it there.
I don't want to have to reboot into bootcamp for this so I'm looking for
something that can run a PC program in the Mac OS environment. I've not
kept up with this technology so I have no idea of what is available and
the pros and cons.
I'm by no means a virtualization expert, having come to it some 10 years ago
and it became a major part of my day job.
One thing that non-techies forget--TANSTAAFL (there ain't no such thing as a
free lunch). You're essentially timesharing the computers resources between
environments. That costs something. Bootcamp doesn't timeshare. You're >>>>>>> running Windows with drivers that specifically support Mac hardware. Try and
install Windows on a Mac directly and you're going to be in Frustration City.
Install Ubuntu instead. At least that works. Sort of.
This is misleading.
VM's run on the hardware. It's not emulation. So whatever task you're >>>>>> doing on the whole machine, you would have been doing it under one OS or >>>>>> the other in any case.
Besides, when running bootcamp you can't drag and drop files between the >>>>>> two OS's like you can, seamlessly, with a VM. That is a key benefit. >>>>>
Yes, there's a "cost", but it is extremely minimal. The x86 processor >>>>>> has many features designed solely with VMs in mind - likewise Mac OS. >>>>>
And Parallels is even better at getting out of the way per tests done a >>>>>> few years ago. (I use VMWare Fusion because I always have, but I could >>>>>> switch...)
I've used both, but not recently. My impression of the current state from >>>>> others is that Parallels is slightly faster and VMware Fusion is
slightly more stable.
What I do not like about them is you have to buy the software again
every year, and I have little enough need to Windows that it is simply >>>>> not worth it.
No you don't.
Do.
No you do not _have_ to do so annually. There is no contractual or
(usually) any technical reason to do so.
If you want it to work on the current OS, as I said.
It only has to be up-to-date enough. I've been running Fusion since
2008 and only paid for updates 4 times. No issues.
I was talking about Parallels more than Fusion, but Fusion did have at
least two paid updates to stay compatible with the current version of the
OS and the previous version would not run.
Nope. It would bridge fine in my case over 2 or 3 major Mac OS versions.
On 2020-05-22 17:52, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2020-05-22, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-22 13:48, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/21/20 4:43 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
I would try Wine first, and if that doesn't work I' use a VM. My
current favorite is VMware Fusion, but Parallels Desktop is another
good choice. AS you may know, there are a few different ways to run >>>>> Windows apps on Macs, ranked from least expensive to most expensive: >>>>>
Wine
You can use Wine, a freeware application that provides a Windows
compatibility layer, to run Windows apps without the Windows
operating system.
I thought I had followed up to this but it hasn't posted so I must
have screwed up.
Since I am only trying to run one program, Wine looks like a good way
to go. However, I found the Wine web site, winehq.org, and
discovered Catalina is not currently supported. I'm still running
Mojave but that is only because a key app I run also doesn't work
under Catalina yet. Any idea when/if Wine will support Catalina?
I used Wine about 5 years ago with little overall success. I don't
recall the issue but the app I "wined" lost some functionality in the
process and also had some strange display behaviour.
I've used Wine for many years, with plenty of success running several
different Windows apps, ranging from various small utilities to Call of
Duty 4: Modern Warfare.
Great. The one app I did attempt to Wine (LViewPro32) did not fare well.
In message <fzyyG.186166$Oi4.98294@fx43.iad> Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
Nope. It would bridge fine in my case over 2 or 3 major Mac OS versions.
It absolutely did not,
On 2020-05-24, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-22 17:52, Jolly Roger wrote:
On 2020-05-22, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:
On 2020-05-22 13:48, Robert Peirce wrote:
On 5/21/20 4:43 PM, Jolly Roger wrote:
I would try Wine first, and if that doesn't work I' use a VM. My
current favorite is VMware Fusion, but Parallels Desktop is another >>>>>> good choice. AS you may know, there are a few different ways to run >>>>>> Windows apps on Macs, ranked from least expensive to most expensive: >>>>>>
Wine
You can use Wine, a freeware application that provides a Windows
compatibility layer, to run Windows apps without the Windows
operating system.
I thought I had followed up to this but it hasn't posted so I must
have screwed up.
Since I am only trying to run one program, Wine looks like a good way >>>>> to go. However, I found the Wine web site, winehq.org, and
discovered Catalina is not currently supported. I'm still running
Mojave but that is only because a key app I run also doesn't work
under Catalina yet. Any idea when/if Wine will support Catalina?
I used Wine about 5 years ago with little overall success. I don't
recall the issue but the app I "wined" lost some functionality in the
process and also had some strange display behaviour.
I've used Wine for many years, with plenty of success running several
different Windows apps, ranging from various small utilities to Call of
Duty 4: Modern Warfare.
Great. The one app I did attempt to Wine (LViewPro32) did not fare well.
The point is your sample of one is too small. Many apps run well enough
to perform their primary function. It's worth trying.
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