Hello everybody!

I'm trying to update my old trusty A3000 to new levels. Well, somewhat at least.

Because my old SCSI disks seem to face end of life, I got an Acard SCSI bridge AEC7720U, which works quite well on my SGI Indy
as well as on my A3000. However, the ATA disks do have 10 GB or even more and I

would like to make use of the additional
space.

On http://thomas-rapp.homepage.t-online.de/4gb_faq.html there is quite a good coverage on this issue.

The problem now is:
When the disks are connected to the WarpEngine040 SCSI bus, everything is working. But warpdrive.device is not supported for
TD64 or NSD. So I would need my disks to be connected to the A3000 internal bus

and its scsi.device. Sadly the A3000 doesn't
boot from internal SCSI as long as the WarpEngine is plugged into CPU slot. It does boot with onboard 030 from internal SCSI
bus. No changes on SCSI termination or cabling between with and without WarpEngine. What is changed. of course, are those
jumpers on the mainboard that needs to be changed to run WarpEngine.

Does anyone has an idea?
I remember that it worked with internal SCSI bus and WarpEngine 20 years ago...

Ingo


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This can be solved by using the PFS3 all-in-one filesystem. This supports DirectSCSI, TD64 and NSD for partition data located after the 4GB and warpdrive.device supports DirectSCSI :).

Older HDToolBox works fine for partitioning these large drives as long as you remember that it wraps the displayed size every 2GB. It counts in cylinders internally, so if you first create small partitions and get a feeling for how many cylinders say 100MB are worth, then enter the approximate number of "Total

Cyl" for whatever size you want the partitions to be.

I am actually CoSysOp on a BBS where we are running a WarpEngine 3040 card in an A4000 which has an Acard SCSI->IDE bridge connected to it with an IDE->SATA adapter and a 24GB mSATA SSD. Works like a charm with PFS3.

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/pfs3aio


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Hello Patrik!

10 Aug 17 15:54, you wrote to me:

This can be solved by using the PFS3 all-in-one filesystem. This
supports DirectSCSI, TD64 and NSD for partition data located after the
4GB and warpdrive.device supports DirectSCSI :).

Good to hear that warpdrive.device is supporting DirectSCSI!

Although this really doesn't solve my "doesn't boot from scsi.device" issue, it

is a fair workaround that I can use warpdrive.device instead...

Older HDToolBox works fine for partitioning these large drives as long
as you remember that it wraps the displayed size every 2GB. It counts
in cylinders internally, so if you first create small partitions and
get a feeling for how many cylinders say 100MB are worth, then enter
the approximate number of "Total Cyl" for whatever size you want the partitions to be.

Well, for partitioning you can always use Linux with parted, either on the Amiga itself (that particular box ran for a decade as a Debian autobuilder) or just put the disk into another machine like I'm doing it with my SGI Indy... Once partitioned you can switch the drive back to Amiga and format the new partitions with PFS3 then.

I am actually CoSysOp on a BBS where we are running a WarpEngine 3040
card in an A4000 which has an Acard SCSI->IDE bridge connected to it
with an IDE->SATA adapter and a 24GB mSATA SSD. Works like a charm
with PFS3.

Which Acard bridge do you use? Originally I wanted to buy ARS2000SUP until I came across that other bridge for half the price, but the AEC7720U has the problem that it is wider than the disk itself on one side so it can only be placed in one single drive bay: where the floppy disk is.

http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/pfs3aio

Will give it a try! Although I didn't make good experiences with non-standard filesystems on AmigaOS. I lost 400 MB of my filebase back then with AFS. But maybe PFS3 is more stable now after all the years than AFS was after first release... :-)

Ingo


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Strange that it does not boot from the internal scsi with the warpengine connected. Does the drives connected to the internal scsi show in early startup

or show any other indication of working when the warpengine is connected?

The warpengine scsi is much faster nevertheless, but I understand that it is annoying.

Good point with gparted, had not considered that option.

I am using an AEC-7722 bridge, which is actually a wide scsi bridge for ATAPI devices like CD-ROMs etc, but I have changed the firmware to that from the ATA equivalent AEC-7726Q. This bridge is about as large as the back och a 5.25" CD (where it was intended to be mounted), so it is quite bulky, but together with the IDE->SATA adapter, the SATA->mSATA adapter the overall package is about half a CD-ROM. The only reason for using the 7722 was that they used to be sold

for under 30USD on aliexpress a few yeats ago.

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Hello Patrik!

15 Aug 17 13:31, you wrote to me:

Strange that it does not boot from the internal scsi with the
warpengine connected. Does the drives connected to the internal scsi
show in early startup or show any other indication of working when the warpengine is connected?

No, they don't show up in Boot Menu.

The warpengine scsi is much faster nevertheless, but I understand that
it is annoying.

Sure, but the NSD docs don't list warpdrive.device as supported device nor found I an evidence that it is supporting large disks in general.

However, it seems as if I don't need just pfs-aoi, but also some other parts of

pfs. Hints are welcome! ;-)

I am using an AEC-7722 bridge, which is actually a wide scsi bridge
for ATAPI devices like CD-ROMs etc, but I have changed the firmware to that from the ATA equivalent AEC-7726Q. This bridge is about as large
as the back och a 5.25" CD (where it was intended to be mounted), so
it is quite bulky, but together with the IDE->SATA adapter, the SATA->mSATA adapter the overall package is about half a CD-ROM. The
only reason for using the 7722 was that they used to be sold for under 30USD on aliexpress a few yeats ago.

Well, I got my 7720U for a good price as well, otherwise I would have opted for

the ARS2000SUP, because of the SATA interface. Alas, I would have had the same issues with WarpEngine and PFS then, I think... ;)

Ingo


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Hi Ingo,

No, they don't show up in Boot Menu.

What happens if you run HDToolBox on scsi.device with the WarpEngine connected?

Sure, but the NSD docs don't list warpdrive.device as supported
device nor found I an evidence that it is supporting large disks in general.

The following entry can be found in DEVS:NDSPatch.cfg in OS3.9: # WarpEngine DEVICE warpdrive.device DEVICETYPE NSDEVTYPE_TRACKDISK COMMANDS 1-15,20-23,28 VERSION 40 REVISION 66

However, it seems as if I don't need just pfs-aoi, but also some
other parts of pfs. Hints are welcome! ;-)

Actually, all you really need to use it is the pfs3_aio-handler file in the archive, which is the filesystem handler you normally add to the RDB of the drive with id "PFS3" or in hex as in HDToolBox as 0x50465303.

There is however an archive of what I think is how the last commercial release looked which contains documentation and the tools (which are not strictly needed to use it):
http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/PFS3_53

Note that the main difference between the last commercial release and pfs-aio is that there is only one version of the handler and that it automatically detects wether to use NSD, TD64 or DirectSCSI for access beyond 4GB and will refuse to mount such partitions if it fails to access both the beginning and end of them correctly.

Regards,
Patrik

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Hello Patrik!

18 Aug 17 02:43, you wrote to me:

No, they don't show up in Boot Menu.

What happens if you run HDToolBox on scsi.device with the WarpEngine connected?

Hmmm, it's been already some days when I tested this, but I think it didn't even boot when there is a drive connected to the internal SCSI bus and the WarpEngine installed. So I couldn't start HDToolBox at all to investigate.

Sure, but the NSD docs don't list warpdrive.device as supported
device nor found I an evidence that it is supporting large disks
in general.

The following entry can be found in DEVS:NDSPatch.cfg in OS3.9: # WarpEngine DEVICE warpdrive.device DEVICETYPE NSDEVTYPE_TRACKDISK
COMMANDS 1-15,20-23,28 VERSION 40 REVISION 66

I've now ordered AmigaOS 3.9 from Vesalia. So, maybe by the end of next weekend

I'm hopefully running OS3.9 on a large HDD! ;-)

However, it seems as if I don't need just pfs-aoi, but also some
other parts of pfs. Hints are welcome! ;-)

Actually, all you really need to use it is the pfs3_aio-handler file
in the archive, which is the filesystem handler you normally add to
the RDB of the drive with id "PFS3" or in hex as in HDToolBox as 0x50465303.
There is however an archive of what I think is how the last commercial release looked which contains documentation and the tools (which are
not strictly needed to use it): http://aminet.net/package/disk/misc/PFS3_53

Note that the main difference between the last commercial release and pfs-aio is that there is only one version of the handler and that it automatically detects wether to use NSD, TD64 or DirectSCSI for access beyond 4GB and will refuse to mount such partitions if it fails to
access both the beginning and end of them correctly.

So far I haven't figured out how to install PFS and make use of it. Of course I

added it to RDB, but it lists as FFS or as Custom Filesystem.
But well, let's wait for OS3.9 install CD to arrive... :-)

Ingo


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Hi Ingo,

So far I haven't figured out how to install PFS and make use of it.
Of course I added it to RDB, but it lists as FFS or as Custom
Filesystem.
But well, let's wait for OS3.9 install CD to arrive... :-)

When you add pfs_aio-handler to the RDB, you should add it as DosType 0x50465303 ("PFS\3"). When you partition the drive and go to the "Change..." section for a partition, you will then be able to select "PFS\03" as "File System:".

Then reboot and do a quick format of the partition. PFS will show a requester when you format it confirming it is formatted using PFS.

OS3.9 is nice and has a more user friendly HDToolBox, however it is not needed if your goal is to use the entire 4GB+ drive with PFS3.

Regards,
Patrik

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Hello Patrik!

26 Aug 17 06:26, you wrote to me:

So far I haven't figured out how to install PFS and make use of
it. Of course I added it to RDB, but it lists as FFS or as Custom
Filesystem.
But well, let's wait for OS3.9 install CD to arrive... :-)

When you add pfs_aio-handler to the RDB, you should add it as DosType 0x50465303 ("PFS\3"). When you partition the drive and go to the "Change..." section for a partition, you will then be able to select "PFS\03" as "File System:".

Yes, I tried that, but no luck.

Then reboot and do a quick format of the partition. PFS will show a requester when you format it confirming it is formatted using PFS.

Nope, no requester. It tried to format it as FFS.

OS3.9 is nice and has a more user friendly HDToolBox, however it is
not needed if your goal is to use the entire 4GB+ drive with PFS3.

So far, OS3.9 is running quite well. Makes me wondering why I refused to update

earlier. Maybe because it's not the "original" OS3.1... ;)

Ingo


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Hi Ingo,

When you add pfs_aio-handler to the RDB, you should add it as DosType
0x50465303 ("PFS\3"). When you partition the drive and go to the
"Change..." section for a partition, you will then be able to select
"PFS\03" as "File System:".

Yes, I tried that, but no luck.

What exactly did not work? Adding the file system to the RDB with correct DosType or be able to select "PFS\03" as "File System:" in HDToolBox?

It should look like this: http://megaburken.net/~patrik/HDToolBox/File%20System%20Maintenance.png http://megaburken.net/~patrik/HDToolBox/File%20System%20Characteristics.png

Then reboot and do a quick format of the partition. PFS will show a
requester when you format it confirming it is formatted using PFS.

Nope, no requester. It tried to format it as FFS.

In that case, the "File System:" DosType for that partition must have been something else than 0x50465303/"PFS\03". If you attempt to format a partition with a non-standard file system DosType from Workbench, you will not get the option to select "Fast File System:" and if you format from the shell, the FFS switch will not have any effect.

Also always remember to only do quick format if you are under 3.1 as the zero writing part of a non-quick format is done by the formatting program itself, not the filesystem handler and is not 4GB+ aware and will wrap.

OS3.9 is nice and has a more user friendly HDToolBox, however it is
not needed if your goal is to use the entire 4GB+ drive with PFS3.

So far, OS3.9 is running quite well. Makes me wondering why I refused
to update earlier. Maybe because it's not the "original" OS3.1.

I understand what you mean =). I still run 3.1 on a couple of Amigas, like the A2000 I am writing this on, as it feels more "original".

Regards,
Patrik

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Hello Patrik!

27 Aug 17 12:33, you wrote to me:

Yes, I tried that, but no luck.

What exactly did not work? Adding the file system to the RDB with
correct DosType or be able to select "PFS\03" as "File System:" in HDToolBox?
It should look like this: http://megaburken.net/~patrik/HDToolBox/File%20System%20Maintenance.pn
g http://megaburken.net/~patrik/HDToolBox/File%20System%20Characterist ics.png

Yep, it looked that way, but...

Then reboot and do a quick format of the partition. PFS will
show a requester when you format it confirming it is formatted
using PFS.

Nope, no requester. It tried to format it as FFS.

In that case, the "File System:" DosType for that partition must have
been something else than 0x50465303/"PFS\03". If you attempt to format
a partition with a non-standard file system DosType from Workbench,
you will not get the option to select "Fast File System:" and if you format from the shell, the FFS switch will not have any effect.

Also always remember to only do quick format if you are under 3.1 as
the zero writing part of a non-quick format is done by the formatting program itself, not the filesystem handler and is not 4GB+ aware and
will wrap.

... I always did a full format and not a quick format. Guess, that was the mistake why it didn't work. :-)

OS3.9 is nice and has a more user friendly HDToolBox, however it
is not needed if your goal is to use the entire 4GB+ drive with
PFS3.

So far, OS3.9 is running quite well. Makes me wondering why I
refused to update earlier. Maybe because it's not the "original"
OS3.1.

I understand what you mean =). I still run 3.1 on a couple of Amigas,
like the A2000 I am writing this on, as it feels more "original".

Yes, exactly! The new icons look awful - or something is wrong with my palette.

However, OS3.9 is a leap forward in regards of large disks, so I guess I'll stick with it... :-)

Anyway, thanks for your support! :)
Ingo


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